WG U5000: TDA 1771 always blows on Cruis'n USA

[Luigi]

Hi.

I'm afraid this could be a big problem


When we first turned on the Cruis'n USA there was only a horizontal bright thin line in the middle of the screen. Games can be started, sound is ok and you see the colors and pictures changing within the thin line.

We've been told to replace TDA 1771 that controls the vertical deflection. We did and it worked for a few days. Then it was the same problem again....and again.

We now have replaced the TDA three times, the last time (sunday) we replaced the large resistor, too and reduced the voltage. It was always 33-34V and now it is around 29V. It worked 3-4 hours on sunday until we swtiched it off.

Yesterday evening we powered it up and the TDA blew again....again the thin bright line 


Has anybody ever had the same problem nad knows how to save it? We're running out of TDAs.....only one left and this time it should run stable


Would be great if anyone could help us.


The pictures show the good days when the machine was running...... 

[Lutus]

These machines don't always have the same monitor in them.  It would be helpful if you posted pictures of the chassis of the monitor and after ID'ing the chassis, putting the name of the chassis in the subject of this topic so people know "Monitor XXXXX blows TDA 1771".  Something like that.

You will get more help in the long run this way.

I would love a sit down racing machine one day.  Just as an aside.


And, I am gonna need you to send me that missile command.

[Luigi]

Sorry, I just saw that I completely forgot to write what monitor there is 

It's a Wells Gardner U5000 (it has another number I don't remember...25K....) and there's a label on the chassis: P738

So what information should I add in the "Subject" line then?


I've put lots of work (and money) into that MC and I will only part with it for a lot of money 

[Lutus]

Just put in "WG U5000"  somewhere, that should be good enough.  It is the right series anyways.

I read an article somewhere about how Missile Command came to be and what they were originally going to call it.  Something like "Armageddon" or something like that.  Don't remember where I read that, maybe on this forum somewhere, who knows.

[Ken Layton]

A U5000 is plagued with problems. It's been well discussed here and other forums. You need to call the Wells-Gardner parts department and order these three "Service Kits" which are designed to correct the problems. Otherwise, you'll be replacing parts every day.

# S05F0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Vertical Sweep Update

# S01J0000-000F Service Kit, U-5000 Horizontal Output Transistor Update

# S04E0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Power Supply Update

It is strongly recommended to install all 3 kits to make the monitor reliable.

While you have the chassis out, the Wells-Gardner parts department also sells a capkit for this model:

# S-KIT CAP U50

[Luigi]

Thanks Ken.


# S05F0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Vertical Sweep Update = $15

# S01J0000-000F Service Kit, U-5000 Horizontal Output Transistor Update = $30,26

# S04E0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Power Supply Update =

I could not find the Power Supply Update     Any hints?

[halfmachine]

We've been told to replace TDA 1771 that controls the vertical deflection. We did and it worked for a few days. Then it was the same problem again....and again.

We now have replaced the TDA three times, the last time (sunday) we replaced the large resistor, too and reduced the voltage. It was always 33-34V and now it is around 29V. It worked 3-4 hours on sunday until we swtiched it off.

I'm not surprised that you have problems, the TDA1771 datasheet specs the max operating voltage to be 30V, so you're probably running at the limit of the device.

Increase the value of R303 (originally 1.2 ohm) to bring the voltage down OR if there is the add-in resistor assembly (that plugs into a Test point near the Vert IC) make sure it is plugged in! (this may have been unplugged when servicing).

Also, replace C610.

Finally add a AC fan somewhere in the cabinet to cool the various monitor chassis heatsinks.

Kevin.
~Halfmachine~

[Ken Layton]

Thanks Ken.


# S05F0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Vertical Sweep Update = $15

# S01J0000-000F Service Kit, U-5000 Horizontal Output Transistor Update = $30,26

# S04E0000-000F Service Kit, U5000/U2000 Power Supply Update =

I could not find the Power Supply Update     Any hints?

You have to telephone their parts department to order all the kits I mentioned. Not everything is shown on their website.

[Luigi]

Dirk already made the vertical sweep update with the fan and the additional resistor.

So what would be a good voltage for the TDA? It's now around 28-29V.


Dirk has replaced most of the caps on the chassis but the not the small ones around the TDA because he didn't have the right ones to match. He will get them today and replace them, too.  But I don't think this will help in this case 

[grantspain]

i worked a few u5000 way back,if you check your schem you will see the suspects clearly.
if you check the u5000 repair guide it tells you everything to change.
yes there are caps to change but there are also diodes and in particular there is a zener.

[Luigi]

I'm sorry, but I'm not that familiar with schematics and electronics. I could spend days looking into the plan and still have no idea what could be involved in blowing the TDA 

[halfmachine]

I'm sorry, but I'm not that familiar with schematics and electronics. I could spend days looking into the plan and still have no idea what could be involved in blowing the TDA

When you replace the caps around the TDA (including the one I mentioned above) I think you'll find doing so solves your problem.
You can also increase the value of R303 to reduce the voltage going to the TDA to about 25VDC. But this should be done as a last resort if everything else fails...

Kevin.
~Halfmachine~

[grantspain]

http://www.wellsgardner.com/pdf/Repair/U5000_25_inch.pdf
nice and simple,tells you what to change

[Ken Layton]

Um..... the genuine Wells-Gardner Vertical Sweep Upgrade kit consists of alot more parts than that. And it certainly does not mention nor include a fan. There's a couple of diodes to be replaced (different values than the originals!), a resistor value to change, a capacitor value to change, a new vertical deflection IC to install, and a terminal strip assembly with a giant resistor on it to install.

[SirPeale]

Ken -

I haven't looked at these update notes, but do they contain a list of components and locations?

[Ken Layton]

Yes, the list of components and their locations is given. I have a fair photocopy of all three of these service kits' instructions. I'm transcribing all of them and adding my own notes/wording to them. The U5000 kit normally includes a resistor assembly with a wiring harness and terminal strip that is to be added. I'm making a drawing and parts list so a person could fabricate one if Wells-Gardner finally runs out of these kits.

[Luigi]

Thanks to all of you guys 

I will talk to Dirk and ask what exactly he replaced or did and then come back to report

@ken: a detailed description of the parts would be great 

[SirPeale]

I'm making a drawing and parts list so a person could fabricate one if Wells-Gardner finally runs out of these kits.

Excellent.  I'm a DIY kind of guy.

[Luigi]

Hi Ken.


I know you want to add your own suggestions and words to the list but could you post a list of the things to replace with the Wells Gardner update kits for the U5000??? Would be great  Thanks!

[ToplessZ]

I just bought one of those kits as well, so when I get it I'll post the instructions and the parts..

[Ken Layton]

I tried to post it, but the forum does not accept Works attachments.

[Kevin Mullins]

Can you convert them to a .pdf ?
If not then e-mail them to me and I'll see what I can do to convert them.
(I'd like to see the list as well) 

[Luigi]

(getting nervous)....just ZIP them, that should work

[Ken Layton]

Can you convert them to a .pdf ?
If not then e-mail them to me and I'll see what I can do to convert them.
(I'd like to see the list as well) 

Email is sent with both the vertical sweep kit info and the power supply info. For those interested, I also have the Horizontal Output upgrade instructions/parts sheet, however it is of very poor quality. One of these days I'll get around to retyping it and making new drawings of the pictures.

[Arm123]

Be sure to let us know how you make out with this...

[Luigi]

Lots of people seem to be interested in that you shall be doomed U5000 

[ToplessZ]

Just FYI , Mouser sells TDA1771 's for 1.45.  And you can buy the entire Vertical Sweep kit by individual parts for about 6.00 plus shipping from them...
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=NT9noNhSp6e%252bhjOSB8OKZw%3d%3d

[Kevin Mullins]

Thanks goes out to Ken for providing this information..... all I did was .pdf it.
(see attached)
U2000-U5000 Kit# S04E0000-000F.pdf
U2000-U5000 Kit# S05F0000-000F.pdf

If we get the Horizontal Output info for the U5000 together neatly we'll post that as well.
But in the mean time I believe this is the jist of it.
U5000 only Kit# S01J0000-000F

The horizontal output transistor (Q704) fails and sometimes R728, R760, and Q708 also fail. The plastic board holder has ribs to support the board and one of these ribs touches the solder connection at Q705 collector. If this connection is fractured, the horizontal frequency changes and causes the high voltage to increase, which may cause one or more of the above components to fail. Follow the steps below when repairing a U5000 monitor with a Philips picture tube that has this problem.
Solution:
Replace Q704 (H.O.T.).
Replace Q708 (start-up circuit).
Replace R728.
Replace R760 (470 ohm failsafe type).
Install the clip-on heat sink on Q703, while transistor is out of board.
Touch up the solder connection at Q705 collector lead.
Trim rib of plastic board holder that touches Q705 collector lead solder connection.

Kit Part Number: S01J0000-000F
Contents:
086X0286-001 (Q704) 1Pc
086X0185-001 (Q708, Q703) 2Pcs
420X5102-324 (R728) 1Pc
043X0509-006 (R760) 1Pc
025X3477-003 (clip-on heat sink) 1Pc

(also see attached pic)

Ken.... correct me on anything about the S01J0000-000F kit if you would please.

[Luigi]

Thanks a lot for that stuff 

I hope this will help to solve our problem with  Cruis'n USA 

[eteonline]

One thing that is not listed in any of the material but which was told to me by Chuck Rabiola at WG is that repeated failures can be also caused by U701.  FWIW, the one value that is not listed in any of service literature for the vertical update kit is the value of the resistor on the terminal strip.  It is 24 ohms 3-5 watts.

[Ken Layton]

One thing that is not listed in any of the material but which was told to me by Chuck Rabiola at WG is that repeated failures can be also caused by U701.  FWIW, the one value that is not listed in any of service literature for the vertical update kit is the value of the resistor on the terminal strip.  It is 24 ohms 3-5 watts.

There were TWO of those terminal strip assemblies carrying different part numbers sent out with those kits. Wells supplied whichever assembly was in stock at the time the kit was assembled.

[qrz]

for those wishing technical data on the IC may find it here  :
 
www.alldatasheet.com

note  that  VCC max  is 30 v .  hence the 24 ohm res in the "kit " .....   

"dumb things to know" :  tv's that used this chip had it on a  25v source,  with few problems.......


qrz

[Mrjamma]

Happ Controls also has the U5000 update kits:

Horizontal Output Transistor Update Kit
S01J0000-000F
Happ Part #49-5039-00
Catalog List Price: $29.55

Vertical Sweep Service Kit
S05F0000-000F
Happ Part #49-1262-00
Catalog List Price: $40.95

Service Kit U2000 Power Supply Update
S04E0000-000F
Happ Part# S04E0000-000F
Catalog List Price: $17.34
I believe it was discussed in the forum that this kit was also for the U5000

This is not quite the best prices on these. They are probably are cheaper from Wells-Gardner,
unless you get Happ distributor pricing.

However, this is a good alternative if Wells-Gardner was out of them or you happen to have a Happ
account.

Just throwing this out there for FYI

[Ken Layton]

This is good to know. I did not know that Happ Controls was stocking those kits. Thank you!