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Player 3 and 4 joysticks: common orientation?

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wcndave:
I think the problem is the word "common" in the OP.

I actually tried to succinctly summarise this for my own benefit when i started my cab prototype a few months ago, and i think it might help clarify the issues for any other newbs.

1. there is no correct answer.

You may as well ask "what is the best colour", there are practical, aesthetic and personal styles involved.

Here's how I initially ran through the problem.

(fig 1) 4 clones in a row takes up about 2m of space - no way I am building a panel that big



Now we stick a nice big screen in (Fig 2)



and have a look from above (Fig 3)



This feels wrong to me, the difference between A and B, so I rotate player 3 to face the screen (Fig 4)



Now A and B are in the same direction.

But let's take a closer look at player 3's perspective (Fig 5)



We now have a discrepancy between A/B and C, the actual direction of travel as seen on the screen...

I do think I would always naturally face the screen, as per Fig 4, so I started thinking about games I might play in the arcades.

MK type games, I feel is all about muscle memory, special moves etc, I move my hands in relation to my body.
Simpsons type games, I play more in relation to the screen, ie point the joystick towards where I want to go from my perspective.

Then there are those games (which I have never played) which involve 2 joysticks, which have to be in the same plane.

Fig 3 seems to be good, as my movements in relation to my body are in the correct orientation, AND they are in the same plane as the screen, which solves the problem of A/B vs C in Fig 5.

But I just don't see myself standing facing away from the screen, and the space is really restricted.

So there just is no answer... it really depends, do you have 3 mates that want to play? do you like to face the screen, do you relate controls to your body, or to the perspective of the screen to you? and if you are the builder, you are probably not going to be player 3/4 anyway!

I reckon that building something which is perfect for 90% of your gametime, and forget about the other 10% being sub-optimal is best.  This depends on what you play, how you play it, and with whom.

I did this, and built a 2 player with the controls slightly angled (only 5 deg), just so we don't bump shoulders (something I have never seen, but it's a bit like an ergonomic keyboard, player 2 is right handed can be a bit awkward when it's straight), and this works for ME.

No wars, just everyone living their lives how they want ;-)

I hope that helps any newbs think abut the types of critieria / issues involved.  It seems the arguments tend to stem from one method becoming "de-facto" and those who don't like it saying that is the wrong approach.  Which is true.  Until they argue that their approach should be the de-facto... and then it's wargames.

A possible answer to "common" is:

1. 4 players straight, all controls face north
2. 4 players in a curve, all controls face north
3. 4 players in a curve, all controls face screen


I built a prototype from cheap ply to make sure I get it right.  Problem is we've not stopped playing since, so the build has come to a stop!













Trip:
This totally is the Android vs iPhone of the Arcade world   :lol

Vigo:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on September 14, 2012, 01:52:14 am --- Nobody has stated, not here.. nor anywhere that Ive seen... that there Never once been a commercial game with angled sticks.   People have always stated... that there are VERY FEW games that had done so... and the few that did angle, often had issues, were not very good games, or were passable merely due to the kind of forgiving gameplay that they used.

--- End quote ---

 :dunno Well, perhaps nobody let out an Ultimatum that there have never ever been any commercial games that angled there controls in the complete history of arcade machines, but it is very commonly said that angled joystick games just don't exist commercially except for maybe one or two exceptions. I think that is even touted a couple times early on in this thread.

Heck, you have even pointed out in the past that there are no 4 player games with angled controls.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on May 05, 2011, 08:09:08 pm --- For one, I can tell you havent seen a lot of the larger 4player cps that were in the arcades.  Gauntlet is a rare exception with its highly condensed CP.  Most of the others are beasts, and used non-enclosed 25" monitors, with plenty of viewability for all the players.  NONE of these angled the sticks, when clearly they COULD have done so to save space and money.  Of course, this is all ignoring all the rigorous testing and feedback they got from massed of players...

--- End quote ---

Which is honestly not a big deal that you said that, lots of others have pointed out the same thing, and ususally experienced people such as yourself. I've probably said it on occasion, and the industry standard is still to not angle them. That point has not changed. I think we need to chalk it up as a dispelled myth that angling really doesn't exist. To be honest, I used to play a ton of Captain America that was at a campground I went to as a kid. I completely forgot that it was an angled game until this thread.  ;)

drventure:
Someone made the point a little earlier, I believe, but I'll throw my support to it.

I angled the p34 sticks on my buffet build. Not because I had any particular philosophy one way or the other, but because it seemed to make the most sense given the shape of the cp and the angle of the player to the screen. Of course, back then, when I started my build I had absolutely no idea what I was doing (probably still don't know much better  :) )

I've had a number of people play it and only one person commented on the outer sticks. Doesn't necessarily mean much but there it is.

The biggest issue with it from my perspective, looking back, is for those simultaneous 2 player/2 stick games like SmashTV. There's not many of them, but they are fun to play 2 players at the same time, and I really can't do so on my cab.

I probably wouldn't angle them if I did it over, for that reason if no other.

yotsuya:
I posted this on March 1, in a similar thread:

This weekend, when I went to Castles N' Coasters, I decided to try this out for myself. My natural inclination would be that yes, P3 and P4 should be angled to the screen in order for things to feel right. They have a few 4 player games there, and I checked - all the joysticks from the factory are installed straight up (no angling).

I put some credits in and I used the P3 controls (far left). I started off by playing straight-forward, directly in front of the machine. Obviously, I had no issues. I then, stepped to the side, playing as if I were the third player and someone were occupying the P1 area. Although my body was angled towards the screen, I had NO issues with the joystick. When I wanted to move up on screen, reflexively I pushed the joystick in the up direction relative to the screen, not "up" relative to me. It the same with the sides. I even moved so that I was standing on the side of the cabinet altogether (you should have seen the looks I got), but it made no difference. You just instinctively know where to go.

So there you go, tested out in an arcade on a real machine 5 days ago. You don't need to angle your sticks.

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