*updated* Repairing a projection screen arcade monitor. (See latest post)

[payment_due]

Are the screens on these types of Megalo candies fixable? The screen apparently is a little washed out. Is this a focus issue, or something deeper/worse?

Thanks for any help.

[grantspain]

you need to clean the lens assemblies,you will need to remove the front screen and unbolt each lens,clean  everything

at worst the guns go flakey on these but thats an extreme

[payment_due]

Thanks grantspain.  Is the cleanin of these lenses something that can be done by an average joe, or does one need to know a little about repairs?

[grantspain]

if you can give me a week or so i will do a picture guide on how to do this,there is another chap that needs this info from me so as soon as i finish my persent refurbs and conversions then i will get onto this

anyone can do this,its not dangerous one bit.the only important thing is to put back the parts in the correct order,inside the lens units there will be 3 lens in a certain order.if yoiu get it wrong you will get some strange looking problems

i did have a full guide to this on killercabs forum but the forum shut down and i lost all my guides

also be careful not to drop anything

[payment_due]

Sounds good to me, thanks. I can live with the cab the way it is for a week or so.   Thanks again.

[cmoses]

Are the screens on these types of Megalo candies fixable? The screen apparently is a little washed out. Is this a focus issue, or something deeper/worse?

Thanks for any help.

Do you live in the Austin area?  I saw this cab on austin.craigslist.org and was curious as I had never seen one like that.  Are you going to keep it as is or do something else with it?

[payment_due]

Yes I do live in Austin, Cedar Park, actually.  I will probably keep it as my JAMMA machine, until I build my MAME cab.

[cmoses]

Congratulations on the pick up.  I am in Austin, working on my MAME cab I got a couple of months ago.  Really enjoy it.  It is now at a playable stage.  Looking to upgrade some components and do a new control panel.

So how big is that cabinet?

[payment_due]

Well I'm picking it up today, but it's a 41" screen.  I hope I have room in my game/band room to put it somewhere. Otherwise, I'll have to maybe encroach on the wife's craft room, ha.

[grantspain]

is it a mitsubishi or toshiba projector in this cab ?

[payment_due]

just got home with it, so I'm not sure. Kinda bummed because I can't get it into my house! It's too wide!   Oh well.

It came with Alien Vs Predator CPS2, A and B boards, as well as Battle Circuit A and B boards, and a King of Fighters 2003 PCB... not an MVS, which is a bit disconcerting.

How can I find out about the Monitor version, grantspain?

[grantspain]

look on the back of the cab,it will state the model

[grantspain]

oh and real good score with game boards

[cmoses]

just got home with it, so I'm not sure. Kinda bummed because I can't get it into my house! It's too wide!   Oh well.

Does it come apart in any places?

[grantspain]

the cp and marquee should come straight off

[payment_due]

Looks like the monitor is a Hitachi C41-31S.  does that help Granspain?

The CP and marquee plate do come off, btw.

[grantspain]

hmm,hitachi-not worked on those but i am sure the process is the same

[payment_due]

Here's another head spinner for ya!

All 3 boards I got from the guy are upside down when played on my other cabinet.  The other cabinet is a regular 6' american cab with Street Fighter II in it. I plugged in KOF2k3, Battle Circuit and AvP, all display upside down!

Weirdness!

[grantspain]

screen flip in test mate,your other cab does not project the image as its a straight crt

[payment_due]

Cool, got the CPS2 games fixed, now I gotta figure out KOF2k3.

[grantspain]

be a dil switch guv

[payment_due]

Well the problem is, the only dip switches I can see are the normal NeoGeo MVS switches, 7 for freeplay and 1 for test mode, etc. But the menus are in Japanese.

[grantspain]

i thought you said its not an mvs board

[payment_due]

No, it's not. Its a regular JAMMA PCB, but it's like an MVS and a game on a single board.  Apparently it was a real release for KOF2k3.  It's got the typical NeoGeo MVS dips, 1 through 8, and only 7 is active (Freeplay) and 1 is for Test Mode.

[grantspain]

well in this situation i would have a printout of the test menu in english and then use that to try and scroll through in tandem-if you know what i mean

[payment_due]

I do. thanks Grantspain. You've been a big help.  I'll keep ticking away at it. I'll find it eventually.   

I thought I could play through the blurriness of the cab... it's a little too bad. I hope I can fix it.

[grantspain]

i hope its gonna be o.k,i have a very old gunblade dx with a mitsubishi ptv and the guns are dying,in this situation you either change each gun or swap in a ega plasma or throw it in the skip

tbh i am 90% sure your particular problem is down to a massive build up of crap on the gun lens and just general dirt

you will find out soon enough anyway

[payment_due]

I hope so too.  I did a little research on the monitor itself.  And by 'little' I mean 'almost nothing came up in google'.  I tried searching for Hitachi C41-31S and got like 3 hits, all from other people saying they have one and asking a question.  It figures I'd have a nearly non-existent model of monitor.

It's so strange. It's not like the focus is off at all. I can see detail, it's just like looking at something through a dense fog. You can still see decently sharp, it's just.. hazy.

[grantspain]

yep its gonna be a smoke/dirt residue on the lens and mirror,this is very easy to clean if you don't clean the internal lens

all you need to do is remove the gray screen surround(should be 2 side screws and 4 at the bottom),lift up and out to remove from cabinet
remove the plastic screen(make sure when you reinstall these they the correct way round)
 by removing one or two of the plastic brackets that hold the screens in place

you should now see a mirror and three lens,using glass cleaner and a soft cloth you can clean all three lens at the top only and the mirror
i bet your cloth will look black afterwards

try this,its a 10 minute job and safe-i bet you will see a massive improvement

[payment_due]

Well  I tried working on it a bit. Got the Marquee off, and I haven't made absolutely any headway with the glass.  But I was able to remove the BACKING plastic and I now have access to the massive mirror, which looks dirty on the OUTSIDE (the side facing the back plastic) and the Lenses actually look decently clean nothing crazy, but I'll clean them non the less.

Now my question - what do I clean WITH?   Alcohol? Windex? Water?

edit: DUH, you said glass cleaner.

[grantspain]

glass cleaner,onto the cloth not the lens
you need to clean that mirror as well

[payment_due]

Ha! I just realized you said glass cleaner and updated my post. Awesome. I'm off to work! Wish me luck!

[payment_due]

Well it seems the Sun was against me so it decided to go down just as I was making progress.  Cleaned the hell out of the large mirror and tried it, no difference, as I expected.

I removed the mirror, I'm going to clean the inside of it tomorrow. Also got access to the 3 lens casings as well.  Pulled them off, and am going to work on them in the comfort of a cool temperature living room.

One question, while the lenses themselves do look a little dirty, the part that they connect to looks like they are dirty UNDERNEATH where I have access to. Is that user-cleanable as well, or should I stay away from that part?

[grantspain]

thats the actual gun,you can clean the suface only of that
post a pic so i can see what you are saying

one very strange thing that i have come across is when the 2 plastic screens are installed the incorrect way round-might be worth checking that as well

[payment_due]

Here are some pictures.

Unfortunately, the macrovision on the camera I borrowed isn't the greatest, so they are a bit blurry, but you can still definitely see the dirt I'm talking about.

main assembly: http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq134/payment_due/IMG_0744.jpg
redgun: http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq134/payment_due/IMG_0748.jpg
green gun: http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq134/payment_due/IMG_0747.jpg
yellow gun: http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq134/payment_due/IMG_0745.jpg

The red one is probably the 'dirtiest' one, but if you look at the yellow one, you can see almost like a wavy little haze in there. Please tell me that's either normal, or that I can somehow clean that.... please.

[grantspain]

hmm,that gun is not yellow its blue
right you can see a build up of dust behind those gun lens,i have never removed one of those so i do not know if it possible

not sure what to suggest,i can call some techs at sega or namco to see if they have done this

i do know one make of rptv had a special gel inside the gun lens but i can't remember what make it was

[payment_due]

I feared as much.  A co-worker of mine said one of his uncles tried to clean his projection tv a long time ago and found that there was 'this crazy gel' inside of them. 

Does that 'blue' gun looking yellow/white mean anything?

[grantspain]

nah all the blue guns look like that for some reason

have you tried messing with the plastic screens yet,its just a while back i had a ocean hunter machine that looked as if the convergence and focus were bad but it turned out to be the internal plastic screen round the wrong way

[payment_due]

Not yet, I'll try to get to that tonite. I did clean it last night but I haven't put the machine back together yet. I was having some trouble trying to get the screen off though. It looks like there's a glass screen first, and then the plastic one inside.  What's the best way of getting that off?

By the way, I dont know if I've made this evident yet, but I really appreciate all of your help and patience, grantspain.  I'd be lost without your help!

[grantspain]

normally there are 2 plastic screens,the external is lined and the internal has a strange swirley effect
sometimes you find another external clear perspex protection cover which helped prevent damage to the extremely expensive internal screens

normally these unbolt from the side and bottom,closer pics would help me determine this

[payment_due]

OK, no problem. I'll take some pictures tonite for you and post them up here.

[payment_due]

OK, here are some pictures.

First off, the front of the cab, missing the marquee header.

front

Inside the cab (entering from the back).  You can see how the plastic sheet is held, sort of.
Top left
Top Right
Bottom left
Bottom right

The sidepanels of the cab. Aluminum and very solid, I have no idea how to get these off.
sidepanel

The top, right under the marquee header. You can see where the two screens meet. The glass on the left, the plastic on the right.
top

You can also see a bracket that holds the outer border/brackets in place.  I can't seem to figure out how to get the plastic screen out witout trying to remove the entire glass assembly.  Furthermore, the cabinets construction seems to be undisturbed. So it's doubtful that someone removed the sheet to clean it and put it back incorrectly.  I could be wrong though.  If I run my fingers across the plastic screen, I don't feel any texture.  Should I? I almost want to say I should feel something like those flicker pictures, where if you hold it one way its picture A, and move it to the left or right and it becomes picture b, and you can run your fingernail accross it.  Does that make sense?  If so, should I be feeling something like that on the screen, or no?

[grantspain]

get me some pics,this time bring up a grid test pattern

[payment_due]

OK, I'll put it together tonite and get one of those for ya.

[grantspain]

i actually think that the special screen is missing completely

[payment_due]

Could be, I'm not real sure.  I'm almost starting to think that this machine will have to be a staight MAME cab rather than a JAMMA cabinet.

I could just get maybe a 32" TV and mount it inside or something.  Or I could just sell it for cheap/parts.

[grantspain]

those cabs should not have any glass,you should 2 plastic screens-one is dark gray with lined ridges and the other is a a lightish colour with strange swirls on it

[payment_due]

Well, unless what I'm feeling is a different kind of plastic, It really feels like glass.  (the one on the left of the picture).

[grantspain]

well if it is glass then that would explain the crap picture,the external screen is very important
i worked for as company a few years back that did this to one of their megalo cabs and it looked ---Cleveland steamer---
options for you are to either pick up a cheap faulty rptv with the same size screen on ebay or something,install an lcd or crt
you should ask the seller if he did this?

[payment_due]

I suppose it's possible. Going into it I did notice a few screws missing on the mirror, and the mirror had been cleaned in the past, i could still see streak marks.  I'm sure the seller opened it and tried to clean it.

But with the screens, it doesn't look like they've been moved or reversed.   I don't really see how.   Even if he did, I'm sure he wouldn't own up to it if I emailed him.  No biggie, I've already profited off of the purchase! 

So, in these monitors the inside screen should be which? The one with the lines, (like the flicker picture) or the one with the weird swirls?

[grantspain]

the internal screen normally has a smooth side and a swirly side-it can be almost reflective clear or slightly white-ish
the external screen is dark gray and has embossed lines

[payment_due]

OK, then it looks like they are in the right order then. Dark grey screen in front (outside) and the soft-white one inside.  Its possible the inside one has been flipped around though, but I kinda doubt it. There are a few seals that look like they haven't been broken.

I think we've narrowed it down to the guns/lightsource. 

[grantspain]

i thought you said you have a glass screen
anyway get a pic of the  grid pattern because i will tell from that

[payment_due]

Well it's grey, but yes, it has to be glass.  I'll get a crosshatch tonite if I can put it together quickly.

[payment_due]

OK, here are two more pics. I REALLY need to buy a camera. This thing has come in WAY handy.

Anyway, here's a crosshatch in test mode.
test mode

And here's a character select screen shot.

char select

Looks like my rigorous cleaning had no effect.   

edit: oh and I looked closer at the glass, I still swear up and down it's glass, but looking closely at the outer screen, I can tell there's texture behind it.  So it looks like the screens are in the right order and not backwards. 

[payment_due]

Anyone know what this cab would be worth as-is? Im thinkin about $150, is that about right or too low?

[grantspain]

i am 100% positive that the special outer screen is missing from this cab,looks like some idiot has installed some smoked glass

[payment_due]

Well I figure I'm just going to put it back together and sell it on Craigslist and here for cheap or trade.

Oh and an update about that King of Fighters 2003 playing upside down? I figured it out.

The monitor in my Street Fighter cab was put in upside down.  I looked at my SF2 board and sure enough, it was flipped using a dipswitch. As far as it's concerned, it's been playing upside down for who knows how many years. LOL.

[payment_due]

Serious update time.

Another very helpful member named gibbous gave me some tips about fixing this issue, and it looks like I'm making very good progress. I was able to replace the coolant liquid which was definitely the problem.  It had congealed and gotten very gross and 'applesaucy'. So I cleaned it out, replaced it with new coolant and the picture is MILES better.  It's sharp and looks great.

But here's a new problem. I'm currently out of focus. Here's a picture of a crosshatch before the new coolant:




And here's one after the new coolant, and out of focus. The red/green/blue aren't matching, apparently, but everything is nice and sharp! (Thanks Gibbous!)



The picture is a little fuzzy but that's because I'm Mr. Shakyhands Jr.

There are a few knobs I found on the cab but none of them seem to adjust the 3 colors together. They just stretch the screen, move it up/left/down/right, and adjust the brightness.

Anyone have any advice on fixing this up?

One thing of note: the liquid is not 100% full when i replaced it, as it's almost impossible to get that perfectly full because of the angles involved, as well as pressure.   The Red and Blue lamps are the ones that are about 95% full, where as the green lamp is about 99% full.  Could that be the culprit?

[Kevin Mullins]

The convergence is off.

You'll have to research whether or not it's adjustable on that model.
(unless someone else here already knows)
Some have manual adjustments, some have on screen adjustments.

[payment_due]

The convergence is off.

You'll have to research whether or not it's adjustable on that model.
(unless someone else here already knows)
Some have manual adjustments, some have on screen adjustments.

Thanks Kevin, it looks like you're right. Gibbous has informed me that it will need to be done via a remote control that costs way too much to even consider buying. $150.  I'm going to try and find the model of the remote, then maybe I'll be able to use my Harmony and program it.

Jeez, just when i thought I had the dang thing up and ready. 

You have to wonder, why would the convergence be off if all I did was replace the coolant? I didn't put in the lenses incorrectly or move the lamps.  Why would this have happened?

[Kevin Mullins]

Some models have special chips for the convergence, could be a problem there as well.
Hard to say..... try adjustments first though of course.

[grantspain]

convergence can go out when you move cabs,it looks like a minor adjustment-not like any ic failure
interesting about the lens fluid-i was not aware it would cause you specific problem,anyway always good to learn something new

[payment_due]

I haven't taken pictures of it yet, but IT'S ALIIIIVE!  I ended up having to purchase a $130 remote (what a deal eh?) from the one human being in the solar system that has and sells them. I finally got it in the mail today and immediately went to work on it. I'd say it's about 99% perfect now.  There are a few things to consider like having to move it yet again and trying to get it into the house, making sure the lamp coolant is as close to full as possible, thus forcing me to open up the lamps again, re-adjusting the mirror, etc but once that's nice and fixed, it will be ready to transform into my MAMECab.
 

I'll post some pictures later today.

[payment_due]

Hey grantspain,

Do you know if it's detrimental to a projection monitor if you turn it on it's side?  I think turning the cab on it's side is the only way I'm going to be able to get this thing into my house. My doors aren't wide enough to get it in here.

[grantspain]

that cab should break down easy,no need to put sideways

[payment_due]

How? I don't see any parts that are removeable other than the main marquee, the cp and the marquee plate that sits behind the cp.  The frame is welded together!

[grantspain]

just seen the cab again,yes i see what you mean-if you do put it on its side then make sure you are gentle and plenty of hands to help
if you drop it you will be back to square one

[payment_due]

just seen the cab again,yes i see what you mean-if you do put it on its side then make sure you are gentle and plenty of hands to help
if you drop it you will be back to square one

Cool, thanks for the help.

The convergence is still being a pain in the rear. I know I'll have to redo it once I move it again, but the corners are so picky.  I wish there was a 'factory reset' mode that would just reset everything straight.