Author Topic: PCB isn't connected to the JAMMA harness only the power source turns on PICS (Read 5438 times)

mrclean · « **on:** October 20, 2008, 11:13:47 am »

I'm just curious as to why when I got this machine the original JAMMA adaptor was inside which wasn't connected to the PCB and when i went to flick on the power switch the coin door lit up, and the speakers would humm. Now my question is why is it that with my new JAMMA adaptor when it was connected to the PCB it did infact light the marquee / coin doors and the speaker worked.. I have since removed the JAMMA Harness from the PCB with all the other wires intact and now only the power source turns on not the coin door lights or the marquee.. is that normal ?

The reason why it's currently disconnected is because i'm waiting for jammaboards.com to send me the correctly wired capcom classic to jamma adaptor. but it was just weird when the rest of that stuff didn't light up.. more curious then anything. Hopefully when I get that adaptor everything works again as it should, (including my other button).

I Vanttt to know !

RayB · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2008, 12:00:29 pm »

You sir need to read up on the JAMMA specification and also how an arcade machine is wired up.

JAMMA pin out spec: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/newjam.html
Bob's basic AC wiring map: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/basic-ac.gif
Wiring up a machine's AC: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/buildit.html
Wiring up everything else: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/jh.html

Basically, I'll tell you this. LOOK at your wiring. Where does power to the marquee come from? Certainly not the pcb!

mrclean · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2008, 12:20:25 pm »

I have read bob's JAMMA harness page along with others.. but really i just wanted to know why does that adaptor determin weather the lights on the coin door light up / marquee lights . Every thing is wired correctly.

Can it be related to the amount of bulbs ? because I added one more with a total of 12 ?
8x daisy chained in the marquee, 2x coin door lights, 2x instruction card lights.

RayB · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2008, 01:54:39 pm »

The answer is that the jamma connector DOESN'T determine any of that stuff, unless it's been weirdly hacked to work that way. Someone might have done a poor hack job to the ground wires, making the lights not come on unless the circuit is complete by a PCB connection. Really doubtful though, as that's not a proper way to have lights hooked up, and is also a risk to the PCB. And what kind of marquee lighting do you have? Usually it's direct to the AC.

Post pics.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2008, 02:03:32 pm »

Quote from: RayB on October 20, 2008, 12:00:29 pm

Basically, I'll tell you this. LOOK at your wiring. Where does power to the marquee come from? Certainly not the pcb!

Quote from: mrclean on October 20, 2008, 12:20:25 pm

.. but really i just wanted to know why does that adaptor determin weather the lights on the coin door light up / marquee lights .

That's what RayB was trying to tell you ..... It shouldn't .... hence why you need to trace the wiring and understand where the power source for the coin door lights and the marquee is actually coming from.

I'm assuming that since you mentioned so many bulbs for the marquee that it has like a row 12v bulbs or something. Even with that type of setup the coin door lights and marquee lights should be coming straight from the power supply..... NOT the game pcb.
The pcb and the lights may SHARE a power source, but it should not have to go THROUGH the pcb in order for the lights to work.
If they only work when the pcb is plugged in then there is a problem with the wiring and the way that it is hooked up.

mrclean · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2008, 02:44:56 pm »

I think it's the power supply. Maybe it was just coincidental with the removing of the adaptor now the power supply doesnt have that little yellow light turn on, i think i hear a tiny humm though.

In the event that's the issue where can i buy a new one locally ?

RayB · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2008, 03:02:10 pm »

OH I know what's going on........

Good power supplies will shut off if there is no load.

Crappy power supplies will just burn out with no load.

mrclean · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2008, 03:30:31 pm »

now the lights back on again (on the power supply that is / tiny yellow light indicating that the power supply should be in working order), ray any way to fix this issue ? maybe it doesnt have enough juice to light up / turn anything on it's dying perhaps >?

I tried directly connecting a 12v (orange wire) to my coin door without it being daisy chained/ and (black wire) ground and still can't get it to light up, I think it's got something to do with the power supply

Ken Layton · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2008, 03:38:25 pm »

All switching power supplies MUST have a minimum load on the +5 volt line. Just having something connected to the +12v line only will damage the power supply.

mrclean · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2008, 03:42:48 pm »

I have many other loose +5v wires with the "U" shaped hooks on them.. one is connected to the power supply while the other 3 are just hanging out. along with a buncha green maybe common ground or NC wires

I have these running to the power supply

1x yellow = 12v to power supply
1x red =5v to power supply
1x black= ground to power supply

But again just to reiderate this was all working prior to removing the "capcom classic adaptor" and the pcb isn't connected the jamma harness is just dangling

Extra 5v wires :

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2008, 04:59:38 pm »

First thing I would do is hook ALL of those loose power leads up to the power supply.
(+5, +12, Ground, etc)

mrclean · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2008, 05:04:43 pm »

just stack them one on top of each other ? the only loose ones are +5 which shouldnt have anything to do with 12v right ? also this was all in working order before removing the adaptor ? Once i get the adaptor back and should things work I'm happy but from my understanding is that just the JAMMA wireharness going to the power supply should be all I need for the lights don't know why it's requiring the pcb / and adaptor... but no way to test until i get it back

RayB · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2008, 07:47:37 pm »

the lights have nothing to do with the jamma harness! That's what I tried explaining. (Except if the wiring is done wrong and is using grounding from the harness).

Please trace where the light wiring is going to.

Also, power doesn't go "to" the power supply, it comes "from" the power supply. This is an important consideration when trying to figure the logic of the wiring.

Actually right now you have me way confused as to what you're trying to sort out. Do you have a game board in the machine or not? Post pics!

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2008, 09:22:03 pm »

Quote from: RayB on October 20, 2008, 07:47:37 pm

Actually right now you have me way confused as to what you're trying to sort out. Do you have a game board in the machine or not?

No he does NOT have a game board connected to the harness.
I agree, it's a bit confusing when trying to read it through the way it's been described.
Here's the skinny.....

JAMMA cabinet, JAMMA harness

It will be playing a Capcom game which requires a JAMMA to CAPCOM adapter.

Currently does not have the adapter therefore the game pcb is NOT connected.

And to to reiterate what RayB is saying .... again ..... the lights have NOTHING to do with the game pcb being hooked up, or the adapter, or the JAMMA harness. There is something else wrong ..... physically trace it out from the lights to wherever it goes and tell us what that is.

Are they 12v or 5v lights?
(might help determine if the power supply is getting enough of a load to turn on)
Put a multimeter on the power supply....is it even coming on?
Were they hooked up to the wrong voltage and are now totally burnt out?

Quote from: mrclean on October 20, 2008, 05:04:43 pm

just stack them one on top of each other ? the only loose ones are +5 which shouldnt have anything to do with 12v right ?

Sure .... stack them.... whatever it takes.
Take a look at a JAMMA pinout.... any voltage or ground related should be connected to the power supply, it also helps to split the load.
So that like 8 Grounds, 8 +5v, 2 +12v, etc ? They can be paired up like yours are, but dang, just hook them up for good measure. (besides the fact that you currently have +5v leads flopping around loose in there just waiting to ground out on something)

mrclean · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2008, 09:49:03 pm »

ok well here's the deal, the some what good news is that through trial and error thus far I connected a seperate wire to the 12v on the power supply and a seperate wire to the ground on the power supply/ connected it to the daisy chain marquee lights and even instruction card lights work! that's the good news, so it doesnt appear to be my power supply/source..

So it has something to do with the wiring harness maybe a break somewhere in the daisy chain on the ground ? I'm afraid to once i get back the capcom adaptor to turn the pcb on, in fear of frying the board. more or less both 12v and ground don't seem to be traveling through the JAMMA Harness itself. I know this because my coin door lights still don't light up. can that adaptor / pcb be completing the circuit ?

e,f,27,28 arent even connected those grounds are just hanging out

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2008, 09:58:09 pm »

Quote from: mrclean on October 20, 2008, 09:49:03 pm

So it has something to do with the wiring harness maybe a break somewhere in the daisy chain on the ground ?

VERY possible ...... so trace the wiring.
And check each bulb too while you're at it.

Quote from: mrclean on October 20, 2008, 09:49:03 pm

more or less both 12v and ground don't seem to be traveling through the JAMMA Harness itself.

And it shouldn't ... not for anything to do with the lights.

mrclean · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2008, 10:11:27 pm »

I just recently hand tested the bulbs and replaced those that are faulty so it's not the bulbs.. but when i got the machine i'd say about 7 outta the 8 marquee light bulbs were dead etc. Any ways.. also now when testing just want to know if this is normal but i noticed when i switch the machine off the marquee lights / and instruction card lights get very bright for .0002 seconds is that ok ?

Ken Layton · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:29:32 am »

Picture of the power supply in the machine please. How many bulbs are being connected? What voltage are the bulbs? What is the bulb number?

SirPeale · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2008, 05:34:39 am »

Quote from: mrclean on October 20, 2008, 09:49:03 pm

...connected it to the daisy chain marquee lights...

Converted Taito cab?

mrclean · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2008, 10:29:33 am »

It's a taito cab, with a total of 12 bulbs, size 44 6.3's.

power supply :

This is the machine lit up when i ran a seperate wire from the power supply / 12v and ground to light the instruction card and daisy chained marquee :

The problem is that from the power supply to the JAMMA harness it doesn't seem to be carrying the signal weather it be ground or anything. This is a concern for when i plug back in the board, but again was all working when i pulled that adaptor ! So im stumped. My coin slots still don't light up because it's using the wires from the JAMMA harness. same issue still not resolved

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:22:39 pm »

Quote from: mrclean on October 21, 2008, 10:29:33 am

The problem is that from the power supply to the JAMMA harness it doesn't seem to be carrying the signal weather it be ground or anything.

How do you know this ?
Have you put a meter between the ground and +12v or +5v on the JAMMA edge connector?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68787.0

Have you hooked up ALL the grounds and power wires on your JAMMA harness to the power supply?

I guarantee the light issue is a simple one if you would just take a couple small steps in order to eliminate some other issues.
The lighting should have NOTHING to do with the adapter or the game board being plugged in.

The lights are probably only coming on when that stuff is plugged in because they are having to share a voltage or ground source which is running through the adapter, etc.
Which they should NOT be if it is ALL hooked up correctly. It's actually bad for it causing it to draw a much larger load from one point.

Trace both the ground and the positive wires FROM your lights and see where they go.

mrclean · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:30:40 pm »

I can't check until later tonight I will let you know the results how much is a cheap miltimeter and can i get it locally ?

SirPeale · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2008, 02:36:07 pm »

Quote from: mrclean on October 21, 2008, 01:30:40 pm

I can't check until later tonight I will let you know the results how much is a cheap miltimeter and can i get it locally ?

I have one here on my site.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2008, 02:51:36 pm »

Radio shack
Lowes
Home Depot
Just about any Auto Parts Stores

Digital prefered ..... and be sure it does AC as well as DC voltages. some automotive meters only do DC)
An audible beep for continuity is nice, but not required.

Check out Peale's link..... perfect example of a basic meter which is all you should ever need.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2008, 03:29:15 pm »

And Harbor Freight Tools has cheap multimeters.

mrclean · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2008, 10:26:05 pm »

I've been tracing wires and pulling my

hair out, then i took these photo's of the JAMMA Harness. It showed that the teeth aren't touching / parts side and sodder side, so the adaptor in some way must complete the circuit. As you can see as an example in the photo the yellow larger wire is running directly to my power suppy which is the +12v. above in the photo on slot 6 the orange ones are running to my coin door lights, this is the same with the ground etc.. so does that make sense ?

Teeth on JAMMA Harness not touching :

Other side of JAMMA, notice they aren't comming from the same slot, slot "F" yellow wire is my 12v connected directly to power supply, and above/below depending on how you look at the harness is "6" 2x orange wires which are 12v:

So to prove this, I shoved a piece of wire in the teeth of the JAMMA, and connected it to ONE of my coin door lights, but left it daisy chained for testing to the other one to see maybe if i had a break in the daisy chain ground because it's running to every button, and every joystick leaf... and sure enough it worked which to me means no break in the daisy chain and the adaptor must be completing the circuit

So first of all am i right ? I think at this point it makes sense according to my testings, but is this safe for the PCB ? Is this JAMMA harness poorly or maybe even the oposite safely wired ?

Ken Layton · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:01:48 pm »

The first picture of the inside of the Jamma edge connector is correct. The "teeth" as you call them (pins) should not be touching each other. There should be a gap there.

The two orange wires and the yellow wire in the two +12 volt Jamma positions should both be running down to the +12v terminal on the power supply.

All 4 red wires of the +5v section of the Jamma edge connector should be running down to the +5v terminal on the power supply.

Six of the black wires from the ground section of the Jamma edge connector should be running to the DC COM or GND terminal of the power supply.

sarge · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:46:48 pm »

If you are just trying to make your lights work just wire them to the appropriate output of the power supply (12V or 5V, depending on what kind of bulbs you are using, and GND). If you have several bulbs, it's best for them not to run through the connector of the pcb. You don't want any more current running through it than necessary.

mrclean · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:21:22 am »

If the two teeth on the JAMMA harness touch each other every things working as an example shoving a small wire so that pin F and 6 touch it then works... "until of course i get my pcb hooked back in"

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2008, 01:47:21 am »

Yes, you have proved what is happening when you plug the adapter or a game pcb in and the lights work...... The lights are DRAWING current directly from the opposite side of the pcb which has the only +12v wire actually connected to the power supply... the YELLOW one.

Typically those two orange wires are tied to a coin counter and coin door lights only.

Personally I would have all lighting like that tied straight to the power supply.
(less current draw on the edge connector and pcb/adapter)

Heck, leave it the way it is, wait for your adapter, play some Gunsmoke, be happy.


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Author Topic: PCB isn't connected to the JAMMA harness only the power source turns on *PICS* (Read 5438 times)

Author Topic: PCB isn't connected to the JAMMA harness only the power source turns on PICS (Read 5438 times)