Is it just crap on Jdurg week?

[Jdurg]

Okay, someone up above has decided that it's crap on Jdurg week.  Today in the mail I get a notice from an ambulance company stating that a payment hasn't been received and that a collection agency has been assigned to collect the $109.32 payment.  Upon reading this, I just went "WHAT THE ---fudgesicle---?!!!!"  It was for an ambulance transportation last summer when the medication I had started didn't sit right and I just lost conciousness while walking around.  (It was severe hypotension, though after falling down and laying down for a while the BP returned to normal).

Well, when the ambulance company worked up the bill, they used the wrong insurance ID and so the insurance company denied it.  Their first bill to me was for $1,400.  I called them up and got their automated response system.  (As the ambulance company doesn't have a billing department.  They go through some external ambulance.com company).  I talked to someone and said "You didn't bill the right insurance company.  Please use the correct number and resubmit."  She said "okay, we'll do that" and then proceeded to not do that.  Two weeks later I got another bill asking for the same $1,400 payment.

Once more, I called them up, this time a bit angry, and asked why they didn't resubmit the bill.  Someone said "oh, we tried to but couldn't get through to the insurance company."  After an hour on the phone, they finally said "okay, don't worry about it.  We'll handle it".

A week before Christmas I got another bill from them.  This time for only $104.92.  insurance paid nearly all of it so I had to cover the rest.  Fine.  I can handle that.  I called them up to make my payment and they said "Oh, I'm sorry.  We don't have the resources to take payment information over the phone.  You'll have to send us a check in the mail."  I replied by saying that the bill I got did not have any return address information on it, so you'll need to send me another bill so that I can fill everything out properly."  (They use some automated bar-code system on the envelopes to track them). 

Another bill was sent to me and I received it a few days before Christmas.  I wrote out a check according to the instructions and sent it out the day after Christmas.  I went right to the post office, bought the stamp there, then watched it go into the outgoing mail bin.  The bill was finally paid.

Today, I get this notice about how they have sent my account for collection and that I will receive a notice from their lawyers soon.  I flipped.  Of course the receipt from the post office only shows that I sent out to pieces of mail that day and has no information about exactly what it was that was sent.

I've tried numerous times to make payment and explained how sending payment through the mail never guarantees that it will get there.  I can't fathom how a modern company can't accept credit/debit card payments or accept payment online.  This is obsurd.  I've done everything in my power to pay off this bill aside from driving to their billing office myself and handing it directly to them.  So because of their incompetance, they can just say "we never received it" and they don't have to prove anything.

What the hell can I do beside have a mental breakdown and go postal on anybody I see related to a billing department?   

[SirPeale]

Show them your canceled check.  Case closed.

[quarterback]

I wrote out a check according to the instructions and sent it out the day after Christmas.  I went right to the post office, bought the stamp there, then watched it go into the outgoing mail bin.  The bill was finally paid.

Today, I get this notice about how they have sent my account for collection and that I will receive a notice from their lawyers soon.  I flipped.  Of course the receipt from the post office only shows that I sent out to pieces of mail that day and has no information about exactly what it was that was sent.

I've tried numerous times to make payment and explained how sending payment through the mail never guarantees that it will get there.

Show them your canceled check.  Case closed.

Exactly.  Or, more specifically, first find out if the check WAS ever cashed.   You seem to be concerned that it might not have ever even gotten to them.  But that is something you should already know and, if you don't, you should be able to figure that out with no problem.  See if it's been cashed, if it hasn't then cancel that check and send another one.  If it has been, then you have proof that they got their money. 

Believe it or not, it really wasn't so long ago that most bills were paid by check through the mail.  It actually does work.

[saint]

Not cased closed, even if you prove it. I don't believe the reporting company (Ambulance.com) is obligated to tell the credit agency you've paid even though they filed the original report. Or, even if they do, they may not or something may fall through the cracks.  In other words, just because you're squared away with the ambulance company don't assume your credit's OK. Check. Check all 3 credit agencies (https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp) to make sure there are no hits on your credit from ambulance.com. If there are then insist ambulance.com corrects it. If they won't, make sure you send a copy of all your documentation (emails, canceled check copy, etc.) to the credit agency and file a dispute.

--- saint

[JimmyU]

Well, at least you've been eating well lately. 

[SithMaster]

Well, at least you've been eating well lately. 

Wait for the food to disagree with him.

[Jdurg]

Okay.  Sometimes all it takes is to get to the source of the problem.  Instead of calling the billing company and getting ignored repeatedly, I decided to call the company that actually provided the service.  I called the ambulance company directly and let them know what was going on.  The guy I talked to was VERY polite and listened to everything I had said.  He said he understood the issues I'm having, and that the billing company goes to them every month and lets them know who is deliquent.  They then either write it off completely, or go after the people. 

He gave my name and information to the chief there and said that when they get the next round of deliquencies he'll let the chief know that I've been trying incessantly to get my payment in.  He even said that if it continues to be a trouble they might just say "forget about it".  The guy was really nice and said that he fully understood the issues I'm having in trying to get this paid.  It was really nice getting an honest and well mannered person on the other line. 

[quarterback]

So was the check payment ever cashed?

[saint]

Okay.  Sometimes all it takes is to get to the source of the problem.  Instead of calling the billing company and getting ignored repeatedly, I decided to call the company that actually provided the service.  I called the ambulance company directly and let them know what was going on.  The guy I talked to was VERY polite and listened to everything I had said.  He said he understood the issues I'm having, and that the billing company goes to them every month and lets them know who is deliquent.  They then either write it off completely, or go after the people. 

He gave my name and information to the chief there and said that when they get the next round of deliquencies he'll let the chief know that I've been trying incessantly to get my payment in.  He even said that if it continues to be a trouble they might just say "forget about it".  The guy was really nice and said that he fully understood the issues I'm having in trying to get this paid.  It was really nice getting an honest and well mannered person on the other line. 

None of that, even if they write it off, fixes your credit. When a company tells you they'll just write off money that they think you owe them, usually that includes reporting you for not paying to the credit agencies. Check your credit!

[Jdurg]

So was the check payment ever cashed?

I can't find that on my bank statements, so it looks like it was never cashed.  If it was just one attempt at payment that failed, then I'd just say "fine, it was lost as I expected it to be, so I'll send out another one."  But this isn't the first time that I've sent them a payment and they mysteriously can't find it.

With regards to checking the credit, I will certainly do that as I check my credit rating every year right after I file my taxes.  It's become a habit.

As for them sending to the collection agency, the guy I spoke to at the ambulance company said that the billing company they go through must get their permission before sending it out to collection.  This is because they deal with a lot of elderly folk who simply don't have the money to pay the bill, but they also don't want to take away every last dime they had for an unexpected hospital trip.  They just try and put out the "We're going to take you to collections" notice in order to put a scare into people who can afford the bill but just simply don't do it.  So he assured me that it hadn't been sent to collections yet.

[Jdurg]

WOO-HOO!!!!!  I finally got in touch with the billing company and they stated that yes, they have received the check but they just haven't yet cashed it.  The last notification I received was a mistake by their billing department.  No claims have been made to any collection agency.  Everything turned out A-Okay!   

[AtomSmasher]

You really, really, really have to push a company to the limit before it goes to a collection agency.

Not always.  I remember when I cancelled my tv service from At&T Home Entertainment, they thought I had two receivers when I only had one.  I sent in the one I had and instead of asking me about the second one or even sending me a bill for the second one, they instead immediately sent the bill to a collection agency.  When I talked to AT&T HE, they understood that I only had one of their receivers and said they would call off the collection agency, but of course they never did...fast forward a couple months and a dozen or so phone calls later (including getting called a liar and a cheat by the collection agency, which is apparently the best way to get me to start yelling at someone) it ended up taking the threat of a lawsuit for them to finally contact the collection agency and tell them I didn't owe them anything.

[AtomSmasher]

Nice story, but did anything ever show up on your credit?  Nope.

My point was that sometimes you don't "really, really, really have to push a company to the limit" before they go to a collection agency, sometimes they send it with no warning.  Also, without my constant calling and eventual threat of a lawsuit, I have no doubt it would of been on my credit.  I made sure to watch my credit closely after that because if something did show up, then I would of been contacting a lawyer to sue them.

[AtomSmasher]

I made sure to watch my credit closely after that because if something did show up, then I would of been contacting a lawyer to sue them.

Exactly.  My statement meant, "before it goes to a collection agency and shows up on your credit", which I thought was implied by the next couple of sentences.

Glad your situation worked out, though.  It's your money and you should always fight for it.

Ah, I read it as two seperate events since once they send it to a collection agency it becomes a major PITA regardless of whether it hits your credit report.  I know AT&T Home Entertainment (which is a seperate division from their phone and dsl services) has lost my business forever and I highly recommend that no one here uses them.

[RayB]

There's "collections AGENCY" and "collections DEPARTMENT". Big difference. Don't assume it's the same thing.

[ChadTower]

Then there is 'collections.  You don't want that guy to come find you.

[AtomSmasher]

There's "collections AGENCY" and "collections DEPARTMENT". Big difference. Don't assume it's the same thing.

Well I know it was a collections agency when I had my problem.  I just pulled out the file I made when this happened and the name of collection agency was Credit Management, inc.

[RayB]

There's "collections AGENCY" and "collections DEPARTMENT". Big difference. Don't assume it's the same thing.

Just to elaborate on why I'm saying this, for those who don't know:
A company will have staff or (depending on size) entire department who's job is ensuring people pay what they owe. I suppose they might outsource this task as well, but...

When a debt becomes too old and/or too large, companies will often just cut their losses and SELL the account to a collections agency for less than the debt is worth. That collections agency then works their ass off to collect the debt, because that's that company's main means of revenue. (Hence the reputation of collectors harassing people and being very rude and pushy). On the positive side, since they "bought" the debt for less than it actually is, you can usually negotiate paying the debt off for less than it is. But, if it got this far in the first place, your credit history will already have been dinged.

[DrewKaree]

You very well may have done this, but over and over and over and over again (lather, rinse, repeat x eleventy), when you NEED to CALL about problems, you should be following these steps:

1.  Get a notebook and pen. 
2.  Write account # and company (to keep track of what's what)
3.  Call the company.  Write down the numbers you need (if auto system)
4.  When you actually get a human, THE VERY FIRST THING that should be said is "Hi, my name is ________.  Who am I speaking to?"  If questioned, tell them you're calling about a problem, but DO NOT GO ON WITHOUT GETTING THE NAME OF WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO.
5.  Ask if there is a direct number you can call that person back at in case you get accidentally disconnected and write it down.  Again, DO NOT GO ON WITHOUT GETTING THIS INFO.
6.  Go on with your tirade.


Time and time again, my wife calls up to complain/solve problems/get service, and when she gets burned (inevitably), she's left all pissed off and calling back fuming to the people.  Then she's left unloading on someone without being able to pin the problem (and failed resolution) on an employee there, AND she's left with having to go through those crappy systems.

I started doing this a few years back, and haven't EVER had problems that I've felt the need to go ballistic over.  If it's not handled properly, I simply call back the "....in case we get disconnected" number and ask to speak to the person I have listed for that problem.  I then start the SAME process over (get their name and phone number, if I'm transfered), and explain the issue using the names I wrote down last time.

Lastly, thank the person you've just spoken with BY NAME (that you've conveniently wrote down) for their help with solving your problem.

The cynics amongst you will now come back with "turnover", "new numbers", "blah blah blah", but without fail, having the NAME of a person who once worked at that company, as well as a PHONE NUMBER of that company who you last dealt with are enough for you to make folks realize you're not going to be easily dismissed with a lame promise they can avoid while sticking you with additional charges.  I got 3 months of my cable free, in addition to having the additional charges removed, simply because I did this and KNEW who I was talking to, so they could go and either fire this person or chalk it up to "thankfully, we fired that person MONTHS ago.  All that, simply because I demonstrated that I had, in fact, talked to SOMEONE, and wasn't giving them some story they'd be questioning, and that it was simply a failure to follow through.

Not holding someone responsible BY NAME is YOUR fault.  Them failing to resolve your problem is that "someone you spoke to last time"'s fault.  Make sure to POINT OUT where crappy service started, and who it was.