Joust dead switches

[lordbah]

Sometimes all of the switches on the control panel go dead. The lamps behind the start buttons remain illuminated. Everything else about the game continues to work. I followed the wires back to a connector, disconnected it, and tried to measure voltage (on the connector coming from the guts of the machine, not the one still connected to the control panel) between pin 2 (ground) and pin 3 (1 player start) - nothing. Between pin 2 and any other pin - nothing. Between pin 3 and a ground elsewhere on the cabinet - 4.9v. Is my next step to check continuity on the wire leading into pin 2? Or does this already suggest some common problem?

I haven't found a correlation between when it works and when it doesn't. Shaking it or tugging at the wires doesn't seem to help (like it might if something was loose).

P.S. Board search broken? "Unable to access search engine".

[Level42]

Sounds like the common wire is broken/not connected.

[CheffoJeffo]

Did you verify continuity between pin 2 and pin 3 (or any other pin with the button pressed) on the widget board ?

[lordbah]

Did you verify continuity between pin 2 and pin 3 (or any other pin with the button pressed) on the widget board ?

That checks out okay. Continuity of the common wire from the interface board up to the connector junction checks out too.

> measure voltage (on the connector coming from the guts of the machine, not the one still connected to the control panel) between pin 2 (ground) and pin 3 (1 player start) - nothing.

Today this reads 5.0v. Not sure whether I was doing something wrong the other day or what. But the switches still don't work.

I connected those 2 pins and the game started, as if player 1 start was pressed. So the problem is in the wiring somewhere but I still haven't figured out where. It seems like I've eliminated all possibilities - what I just did to make the game start is the same thing which would happen when the switch is pressed.

[Kevin Mullins]

I connected those 2 pins and the game started, as if player 1 start was pressed. So the problem is in the wiring somewhere but I still haven't figured out where. It seems like I've eliminated all possibilities - what I just did to make the game start is the same thing which would happen when the switch is pressed.

Do the same thing at the switch itself to verify if it is the switch.

Does it have leaf switches or microswitches?

[lordbah]

They are leaf switches. Shorting at the switch does not cause the game to start.

I/F board ---+- connector(F) connector(M) -+--- control panel

Yesterday, shorting the pins together in connector(F) caused the game to start. Today it does not. 5 days ago there was no voltage across these pins; yesterday there was 5.0v; today there is 4.0v. I have no explanation for this variance. (Is 4.0 too low to trigger the game to start?)

With the connectors disconnected from one another, testing continuity across the pins in connector(M) always shows that when I press the player 1 start button, the resistance goes to 0. So I conclude that the switches and connector(M) are okay.

I also exposed the common wire where you see the plusses above and got good continuity between those two points with the connectors connected. (At one time I wondered if the connectors weren't connecting properly, but I think they are)

[CheffoJeffo]

My Williams troubleshooting expertise is virtually nil, but something inside me says "clean all the widget board connectors" ... but then, I've had a few by this point (family arrives for the holidays in the next few minutes!).

[lordbah]

Still chipping away at this as I get the time.

Now, down at the interface board outgoing connector the ground pin doesn't seem to be right. Pin 6 to pin 10 reads 0v; pin 6 to a cabinet ground reads 4.9v. (Some days in the past, it did look right - today it doesn't)

Here is the Interface Board from the front.



On the bottom, the lower left pin is the one which is supposed to be ground.

Here it is from the back.



(what was lower left from the front is now lower right)

I haven't found pin assignments for the ribbon cable which connects the CPU Board to the Interface Board. But I figured one of them must be ground, and the one I'm pointing at (pin 16?) is the only one which has continuity with the ground solder point as shown.

Then things get strange again.

If I leave the red probe where it is in the picture and touch the black probe to pin 10 on the front side of the board, I do not get continuity. But if I leave the black probe where it is in the picture and touch the red probe to pin 10 on the front side of the board, I do get continuity. So if I get continuity from A to B, and from B to C, how can I not get it from A to C??

There's more. If I leave the black probe where it is in the picture and touch the red probe inside the mounting screw hole next to it, I get continuity. What can that mean? (Why did I even do this? Because I don't know what is *supposed* to be connected to what else, so I'm flailing about at random.)

Final bit of strangeness. Between these two points there is resistance of 915 ohms. I have no idea how or why, just happened to notice it as I was hunting around.

[Donkman]

 The Joust boards are similar/same across the cocktail and upright versions according to what I have found so far. I am beginning to troubleshoot my own Joust. My experience with working on arcade games is very short. I have found the set of plans for Joust at this website.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/ARCADE/A-J/Joust%20(11x17)%20[Schematics]%20[English].pdf

Maybe you should start with your power supply and work from there? Your changing voltages could be bad connections  and/ or an unstable power supply.  I have had problems with my Stargate in the past and a new supply corrected most of it. Best of luck with your problem. 

                                                                                                                                                                          Donkman

[Level42]

Still chipping away at this as I get the time.

Now, down at the interface board outgoing connector the ground pin doesn't seem to be right. Pin 6 to pin 10 reads 0v; pin 6 to a cabinet ground reads 4.9v. (Some days in the past, it did look right - today it doesn't)

Here is the Interface Board from the front.



On the bottom, the lower left pin is the one which is supposed to be ground.

Here it is from the back.



(what was lower left from the front is now lower right)

I haven't found pin assignments for the ribbon cable which connects the CPU Board to the Interface Board. But I figured one of them must be ground, and the one I'm pointing at (pin 16?) is the only one which has continuity with the ground solder point as shown.

Then things get strange again.

If I leave the red probe where it is in the picture and touch the black probe to pin 10 on the front side of the board, I do not get continuity. But if I leave the black probe where it is in the picture and touch the red probe to pin 10 on the front side of the board, I do get continuity. So if I get continuity from A to B, and from B to C, how can I not get it from A to C??

There's more. If I leave the black probe where it is in the picture and touch the red probe inside the mounting screw hole next to it, I get continuity. What can that mean? (Why did I even do this? Because I don't know what is *supposed* to be connected to what else, so I'm flailing about at random.)

Final bit of strangeness. Between these two points there is resistance of 915 ohms. I have no idea how or why, just happened to notice it as I was hunting around.

Dead link pictures ?

[lordbah]

These image links work better:

[SirPeale]

For giggles, make sure that there aren't any broken solder joints on those connections.

[lordbah]

I tried to liquify the solder around that one pin and let it re-set. It took a lot longer than I thought it would. Afterward, the connection between that pin and the corresponding pin coming from the CPU board seems solid.

The control panel switches then worked intermittently. By moving around the connectors which join the wires from the control panel with the wires from the interface board, or putting tension on them, the switches would start or stop working (always all switches functional or none). I fiddled with it, and in the end wound up tugging the wire out of one of the pins. I figure at this point it might be best to just replace these wires and connectors entirely. However I don't know enough to even search for the right parts, and I need some education on how wires get into connectors, and how the pins even get in there ("Connectors 101"). (For the interface board connectors, did they not strip the wires, or strip them near the end but not at the end somehow? Is it a certain kind of connector where you don't have to strip?)

This one 3x5 connector collects wires coming from the two 1x10 connectors on the interface board, plus 2 yellow wires coming from one of the power supply boards. In fact where those yellow wires go into the connector there is a second wire jammed in each hole which goes out to switches on the coin door. The male half of the 3x5 is where the wire got yanked out, and that pin is basically gone.

Is there a way to replace a wire without having to discard a connector? And to replace that one pin that did get ruined? If not, can anyone help me figure out part numbers for these things?