Star Wars upright - restoration

[shilmover]

Okay...  Finally got a few minutes to check things over and noticed that HV2 (7924) was blown (as in to pieces   )...  I replaced both the 7924 and the 7824, plugged it all in and more sparks...  When the smoke cleared, I checked and noticed that the new 7824 was blown.   

A couple of notes:

1.  The 7824 was metal on metal...  The 7924 was insulated.
2.  When I removed the cap that connects to the monitor (can't remember what its called), I noticed that the wire was pushed out a bit and its end and the 2 ends of the clips were out too far.

Any idea what might cause this?  Beyond this and a cap kit, any other recommended changes before I plug it all back in?

[Level42]

Shil,

First try to get it running stable without the BU406D in place. Remove it completely and then fix the regulators. It's normal that one of the regulators is insulated and the other not, but I'm not sure which is which (as long as you did it the same as it was it should be OK) However MEASURE if there are no shorts on those etc. Did you check out the diodes that were added to the board (factory modification) and did you check the big resistors ?

If you get it to run stable without the BU406D, or if you didn't find anything else, you need to check the big diode that's going from the HVT.

Sorry I haven't got all the part numbers now....will follow up on that.

You do have BU406D's and NOT BU406 ?

About the clips: If they are too far out, you might (but not very likely) be shorting the 19.5 kV to the ground via the condictive cover of the CRT (pic?)...

Don't give up ! You'll fix it !

[shilmover]

Shil,

First try to get it running stable without the BU406D in place. Remove it completely and then fix the regulators. It's normal that one of the regulators is insulated and the other not, but I'm not sure which is which (as long as you did it the same as it was it should be OK) However MEASURE if there are no shorts on those etc. Did you check out the diodes that were added to the board (factory modification) and did you check the big resistors ?

remember, I am still fairly new to this...  I will try that...  Where is the BU406D?  I did not replace that...  I did measure for shorts... there were none.  I do not believe that the diodes where added.  Can you send me a picture of what that looks like?  I did not check the resistors (which ones, what should I check?)

If you get it to run stable without the BU406D, or if you didn't find anything else, you need to check the big diode that's going from the HVT.

ok

Sorry I haven't got all the part numbers now....will follow up on that.

Thanks!

You do have BU406D's and NOT BU406 ?

Yes.  I have a couple.

About the clips: If they are too far out, you might (but not very likely) be shorting the 19.5 kV to the ground via the condictive cover of the CRT (pic?)...

I fixed it...

Don't give up ! You'll fix it !

I am so not giving up.  Especially after seeing what the Amplifone looks like compared to the WG Monitor.   

[Level42]

Hey Shil, I am aware of you being relatively new to this, you did an amazing job so far already IMHO

Sorry if I came to harsh, that was not my intention at all, just trying to help  

I just hope you didn't blow-up the new Cinelabs HTV 

My guidance in getting my Amplifone running again was the Amplifone FAQ document. Although there are some flaws in it (f.i. Q2 and Q3 are mentioned wrong way around) it _is_ a good guide. However, I have been educated in electronics and it is my work so maybe I'm just a little more experienced. Whatever 

OK first thing: Remove the BU406D, wether it measures ok or not (since you have some spares, I'd replace it anyway)

So for now, de-solder the BU406D from the PCB and remove it from the cooling plate.

The added diodes I'm talking about should be on the solder side of the PCB. Here's a pic that shows them:


You can see one exactly on the burnt spot, the other is to the right of it on he wide track. You can check these for shorts.
If these diodes are not there, you probably don't have a "real" SW HV-PCB, but it was used on another game. You definitely must add the diodes if they are not there. Same goes for the really big resistors R20 and R21.

These resistors are also "modded in" at the factory, but they are on the component side. One of these resistor caused that burn spot on my PCB. Here's a pic that shows them:

They are the big black things near the left voltage regulator and the other near the cooling body. They should measure around 50 Ohms. Here's a close-up of the bad one on my PCB:


This first picture also shows that the left voltage regulator has the insulation. You can see the (top of the) thermal pad AND (VERY IMPORTANT) the insulator under the screw/bolt that's holding it. You could measure between the two screws on the regulators as one is electrically connected to the cooling body and the other not, so you should measure OPEN. If you measure a short, something's wrong with the insulation !!

Check again both voltage regulators on shorts. Sometimes you will have to de-solder (a leg of) a part to see what is causing the short. Sometimes parts are in parallel, so you can't tell which is  shorting).

What color is your PCB ? If you have a blue one like me, the diode going from the HVTis near the HVT itself (I had to move it to the solder-side to allow the Cinelabs HVT to fit, as they point out in the installation instructions).

Here's a pic, but it's already moved there:


These are the main things to check. You should also check all the other diodes and transistors for shorts.

If all seems well, power up the board with the BU406D still _uninstalled_. Then you should check the output voltages of the regulators. They're not going to be exactly +24V and -24V. That is because of the resistors that are "bridging" these regulators partially. It should be around those values though....

If everything stays ok, reinstall the BU406D. NO insulation there, the metal back of the BU406D needs to make good contact with the cooling plate ! so turn the screw and nut pretty tight  (not over-tight). I moved the screw to the outside to make this easier (nut on the inside).

Then hopefully you have already found the problem, and hopefully your HVT survived !

[shilmover]

Thanks...  You definitely did not come across as harsh... 

The diodes are not there, but I will add them...  I have a new Cinelabs HTV in there, so hopefully its still good... 

I think my board is white... I did not move a diode (you stated " the diode going from the HVTis near the HVT itself (I had to move it to the solder-side to allow the Cinelabs HVT to fit, as they point out in the installation instructions).")

I am stripping the cab tonight as the kids and I are repainting the inside tomorrow, so hopefully I will get it worked on this weekend...  I need to get some more of the voltage regulators as I only had one extra of each...

[Level42]

OK, I forgot, did you get this cab in one piece, I mean was the Amplifone separate from the cab when you got it ?

That could explain that the diodes are not there. If the diodes are not there the resistors are probably not there either.

You need to add them because the Star Wars game really stretched the Amplifone to the max. The big explosion of the BattleStar f.i. are actualy "overloading" the Amplifone a bit. Jed Margolin, who was the hardware designer explains why and how on his site.

Here's the quote:
In order to have the Death Star explode the way we wanted it to, it wasn't enough to draw lots of concentric circles. Note from Level42: This is kind of funny, because that is exactly what you see when you run it in Mame on a raster CRT !!!
We wanted to defocus the beam to fill it in. We briefly considered adding a vacuum tube to the monitor to control the Focus Voltage. Fortunately, the lead time for the part was too long. So what I did was to give the Vector Generator the ability to overdrive the monitor's color inputs. Overdriving the inputs causes the CRT to draw more current than it normally uses and drags down the High Voltage., which changes the normal ratio of Focus Grid voltage to Anode voltage, which defocuses the beam. This relationship is explained in The Secret Life of XY Monitors.
[end of quote]

From the moment I read that, I wondered if this could have played a role in the early death of the red original HVT's........what Jed is saying here is that he's overloading the HVT. Although not for a really long time, I guess it doesn't help. Atari also later put out service bulletins NOT to let these screens steady on the monitor. Via a dip-switch you can run the game fame-by-frame. I havent tried it yet, but it's nice (especialy to get good screen-shots I guess). If you'de advance to the explosion screen and keep it there for some time (let's say 15 minutes), I bet you're going to blow some parts, OR burn the CRT...

Anyway, that's all back-ground info.

I've heared about blue, green and beige PCB's, but not white one's. Could you put up some pics ?

[shilmover]

OK, I forgot, did you get this cab in one piece, I mean was the Amplifone separate from the cab when you got it ?

Yes... all together...

I've heared about blue, green and beige PCB's, but not white one's. Could you put up some pics ?

Beige...  I think its Beige...  I will post some pics tonight.

[Level42]

We just figured out that the Beige and Green PCB's have the resistors and diodes neatly on the component side

[shilmover]

So I lied... my board is green...   

As you can see on nothing on the back:



Here is VR1:



Here is VR2:



I will check the resistors...  Any chance that the Diodes are bad?  If so, how do I test them?

[shilmover]

I also decided to start stripping down the cabinet so that I can clean the inside (its absolutely filthy) and give it a couple coats of paint inside to get rid of the dusty/musky smell.

As you can see, the back was in really bad shape, so I decided to remove them and rebuild them... 

Here is the top piece/Handle.  The screws holding it on were rusted, a couple broke, a couple came out and a couple would not move...  out came the handy dremel and it made short order of that...  I then found out that it is glued at the top () and stapled on the side...  a bit of elbow grease and it came out (in many pieces!!).  You can also see that at some point the door was forced open (the lock is broken) and the piece was broken:



The door was in worse shape, but it came out easy.   



The bottom part was in really rough shape too.  Not as noticeable in this picture, but the lip that held the door on was in terrible shape.  Had the same issues removing this as the upper one.  Good old dremel!!!



Here is the cab naked (NSFW!!)   :



Here is the replacement top made out of 3/4" Particle board (like the original).  I have not sanded the opening yet, and was able to save the original cover that went on the inside and it can be seen on the left (did not take a pic of that, but will do so when its complete).  I just need to sand, route the grove and paint:



Here is it in the cabinet.  Notice that part of the top board broke, so I will need to fix that:


And here is the replacement bottom.  Needs to be routed and painted.  A piece broke near the power cable opening on the right, but its on the inside:



More to come...

[shilmover]

I replaced VR1 and VR2 again...  But I am confused...  Which is the BU406D?  According to the guide, its Q2 which is connected to the board via a plastic clip.  Is that the one?

Also, I was checking all the cables that connect to the board and the cream/beige one that connects to the Focus/Brightness board (right below the white one) was loose...  IE, it came off when I touched it...  Could that have caused it?  I resoldered it.

The cab is in pieces right now, but I am hoping to paint the inside tomorrow and put it back together in the next couple of days...

I still dont know which one the BU406D is and dont want to pull the wrong one (I removed the one with the plastic clip, Q2, but from your comments below, I think its the wrong one).

[Level42]

As I mentioned, there's a fault in the Amplifone FAQ. Q2 and Q3 are mentioned in reverse in that one OR they were reversed on the BLUE version of the HV-PCB....

The BU406D is mounted on a metal cooling plate near the HVT.

Check this picture:


You see the new Cinelabs HVT on the right, right next to it, on the left is the metal that's holding the BU406D (it's on the inside so you don't see the part itself). If you check it you can see that the middle leg is cut-off, this is normal.

Checking the diodes: set your DVM to diode-test or something simular, it should beep when you connect the test-leads to eachother. Now put one lead to one side of the diode, the other to the other side. If you read "open" (OL or something) reverse the leads. Then you should see a value like 0,5. If you have a complete short, the diode is dead. Best thing is to de-solder one leg before measuring to be sure you're measuring the diode itself and not something that is in parallel to it...

[Level42]

By the way, the solderings of the cooling plate look a bit dodgy on your PCB....check if they are still OK. This is important as the cooling plate acts as the middle pin of the BU406D.

[shilmover]

As I mentioned, there's a fault in the Amplifone FAQ. Q2 and Q3 are mentioned in reverse in that one OR they were reversed on the BLUE version of the HV-PCB....

The BU406D is mounted on a metal cooling plate near the HVT.

You see the new Cinelabs HVT on the right, right next to it, on the left is the metal that's holding the BU406D (it's on the inside so you don't see the part itself). If you check it you can see that the middle leg is cut-off, this is normal.

Thanks... that clarifies it...  I thought it was the other one.

Checking the diodes: set your DVM to diode-test or something simular, it should beep when you connect the test-leads to eachother. Now put one lead to one side of the diode, the other to the other side. If you read "open" (OL or something) reverse the leads. Then you should see a value like 0,5. If you have a complete short, the diode is dead. Best thing is to de-solder one leg before measuring to be sure you're measuring the diode itself and not something that is in parallel to it...

Cool.  I will test them today... between coats of paint.

[shilmover]

When putting the cab back to gether today, I noticed something...

On the neck of the CRT is that white ring.  I noticed that on the "male" connector (the one that is attached to the tube), there is was a plastic cover that has broken off and the glass is showing.  Would that have anything to do with it?

I will test the Diodes and resistors then test again...  What should happen without the BU406D?

Also, how would I know if the flyback is bad?

[Level42]

Without the BU406D you can check everything up to the BU406D's "input" (base). Everything behind the BU406D (the "Mystery can", HVT and the diode, and of course the CRT) are not powered up, so if there's a problem in that section it won't hurt the parts before the BU406D.

So, without much risk, you can measure if the 7824 and 7924 are working OK. I guess you don't have an oscilloscope (if you plan on more game restorations, this is a great tool:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=73111.0) but if so, you can verify if the 555 is oscillating. Basically this means you have a block-wave (well kind of) on the output of the 555. This is amplified by one ore two transistors (before it reaches the "input" (base) of the BU406D.
This is all described in the Amplifone FAQ, you really need to invest some time in reading it.

The only way to really know if the HVT is dead is by using a HVT tester. But it doesn't make sense to buy one just for this. Basicaly, if everything is OK when the BU406D is not in the circuit, and things go wrong when you replace it and test again, the HVT is most likely dead. It could also be the "mystery can" but that chance is a lot slimmer.

Do you have a pic of the neck of the CRT showing what you described ?

[shilmover]

I can get a pic of the neck, but in a nutshell, there is a little plastic "cup" in the middle of the male connector...  that fits in the hole in the "female" part.  and its broken...   

Having said that, I checked everything and it appeared okay.  But I decided to replace some of the components anyway.  I replaced the 7824, 7924, the diodes, the resistors, the BU406D.  I turned everything on but did not see a neck glow, but stuck my head around the front any way and guess what...  Its working!!!    I rechecked what I did when I replaced the flyback and I believe I had the voltage set too high (R17).

I have a nice, beautiful Amplifone monitor... for now...  Hopefully it will stay running.

[shilmover]

Quick question... 

My SW Yoke "pulls" to the right...  I read in the instruction manual that its auto centering, but it definitely pulls left.  How do I center it?

[shilmover]

A few more pictures...

1.  Counter, Volume control, Coin and Test Switch panel before
2.  And after
3.  The Marquee repainted....  it was in bad shape and broke when I removed the broken, rusted screws...  I had to fix it.  I also had to paint it several times to get rid of the moldy smell

[shilmover]

I am thinking of re-cap'ing my AR-II board.  Any suggestions what I should replace?  Anyone have a list? (there is a local place that has almost every cap I could imagine of.

[SithMaster]

This is so sweet.

[Level42]

I am thinking of re-cap'ing my AR-II board.  Any suggestions what I should replace?  Anyone have a list? (there is a local place that has almost every cap I could imagine of.

If it's a cap, replace it

I also got some active parts with Bob Roberts' repair kit and I think even a resistor, but as these all are still working fine I see no point in replacing them.  I keep them for spare...

[shilmover]

This is so sweet.

Thanks!  Hoping to finish it next weekend and putting it in the house. 

[shilmover]

Got some time to work on the Star Wars the last couple of days.  In fact, it is now in the house.

I will get around to posting the pictures either later tonight or tomorrow, but here is what I accomplished:

- all three back pieces (top, Door and bottom) have been cut routed and installed (still need to paint it).
- Monitor shroud cleaned.
- New art on the Yoke and yoke board.

The kids were playing it tonight and after about 30 minutes, it would freeze.  Hard to explain, but you would be playing and all of a sudden the screen would go black except for a few of the items from the screen, it would then continue, freeze, continue, freeze.  Anyone seen this?

I have not rebuilt the AR board yet... could that be causing it?

[Level42]

Tough one, but there is a dip-switch that sets the game in freeze mode. You can advance screen by screen by pressing a fire button.
Check if it does that when it freezes. If so, maybe the dipswitch is making poor contact, or is not entirely into one of the end positions. I think there was a series of PCB with poor quality dip-switches, I think I read an Atari Service Bulletin about this....not 100% sure though....

[shilmover]

Tough one, but there is a dip-switch that sets the game in freeze mode. You can advance screen by screen by pressing a fire button.
Check if it does that when it freezes. If so, maybe the dipswitch is making poor contact, or is not entirely into one of the end positions. I think there was a series of PCB with poor quality dip-switches, I think I read an Atari Service Bulletin about this....not 100% sure though....

I will check that, but the strange thing is that when it freezes, the screen goes mostly black with only a few components (like a Tie fighter, a fireball, part of the shield indicator, etc).

[shilmover]

I will check that, but the strange thing is that when it freezes, the screen goes mostly black with only a few components (like a Tie fighter, a fireball, part of the shield indicator, etc).

Okay, fixed it.  I ran the diagnostics (Duh!!) and it came back with VG RAM1 at 3M Bad which is Video RAM 1.  I replaced that with the one from my other board set (the one that has now decided that it should work without video (sigh)) and it worked fine. Kids had a great time last night until this died they will be stoked to hear that she's alive again.   

I also centered the Yoke (had to do it by removing the gears for the X & Y axis, centering the Pots and then reattaching the gears).  Plays much better now.   

Anyone know where I can get replacement chips for these?  How to troubleshoot the other board?

[Level42]

Shil,

You really, really, really should read the entire thread about my SW CP....
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68094.msg716675#msg716675

I had about the same thing happening. A bad VG RAM. (VG stands for Vector Generator, not video by the way).

I moved it around to see if the problem would move with it which it did. I ordered replacements with www.arcadechips.com

Check all info out here (including what chip to order):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68094.msg747637#msg747637

[shilmover]

Shil,

You really, really, really should read the entire thread about my SW CP....
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68094.msg716675#msg716675

I had about the same thing happening. A bad VG RAM. (VG stands for Vector Generator, not video by the way).

I moved it around to see if the problem would move with it which it did. I ordered replacements with www.arcadechips.com

Check all info out here (including what chip to order):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68094.msg747637#msg747637

i did actually read your thread, but it was a while back.  :-)  sorry for duplicating info.

[Level42]

Ah oops   

I didn't mean it that way....I just found it such a coincidence that the same problem happened to your SW !
Apparently these RAMs are getting bad after some time...

The 5116 works nice as a replacement for the 2016. I was a bit worried because they are a tad slower thant the 2016 (-15 instead of -10) but there was not a single problem since I replaced it.


Here's a direct link:
http://www.arcadechips.com/product_info.php?products_id=116

[shilmover]

Ah oops   

I didn't mean it that way....I just found it such a coincidence that the same problem happened to your SW !
Apparently these RAMs are getting bad after some time...

The 5116 works nice as a replacement for the 2016. I was a bit worried because they are a tad slower thant the 2016 (-15 instead of -10) but there was not a single problem since I replaced it.


Here's a direct link:
http://www.arcadechips.com/product_info.php?products_id=116

No worries..  :-)

I will order them, but I am going to look for them locally when I get back from Canada...  Minimum order is $15 on arcadechips.com.  Any recommendations as to what other Star Wars chips that they sell that I might want to have as a spare?