buying a new receiver for my home theater

[hulkster]

okay, so ive had my HTIB 5.1 setup for about 5-6 years and its worked pretty good.  im not an audio/videophile so the HTIB setup was good enough for me then.  im starting to learn the value of piecing together my home theater setup, so that's what im trying to accomplish here.  ive gotten a new 50" hdtv, and a new upscaling dvd player....both have hdmi ports but my crap receiver doesnt have those.  nor does my crap receiver even have component ports!  yeah, it sucks.  so currently....

im looking at this receiver http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Onkyo-TX-SR605S-7-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver-Silver-TX-SR605S/sem/rpsm/oid/180267/catOid/-12851/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

first of all, i still have my 5.1 speakers that came with the HTIB which are crap i know.  i dont have the money to replace them right, so if i get this receiver, the speakers will have to wait till christmas maybe.  my first question is:  if i get a 7.1 receiver now, and hook my 5.1 speakers up to it....will it still work?  i mean, i know it will "work" but will i get the same sound through those speakers (surround) as i do with my current receiver?  it wont be looking for those extra 2 speakers will it? 

second question:  i know my current speakers are sucky, and im scared that if i plug up those speakers to this new receiver, that the receiver will deliver too much power to the speakers and end up blowing them out.  is that true?

third question:  is this even a decent receiver?  i need to stay around a $400 budget, and i want hdmi ports on the back.  i know that for $400 i wont be getting the best receiver ever, and the hdmi may not be the best in the world, but for me, its good enough.  so im just wondering if this is a decent receiver for $400.  again, im not an audio/videophile.  please help!

[ChadTower]

Someone point him to the Panny everyone has been talking about.

[hulkster]

Someone point him to the Panny everyone has been talking about.

panny? 

[Ed_McCarron]

Someone point him to the Panny everyone has been talking about.

panny? 

Panasonic.

[ChadTower]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59762.0

[hulkster]

k, so even though the post is a year old....you still recommend this receiver? http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069809_316743263,00.html  its hdmi on the back which is what i want.

any place in particular where i could get this?  online or brick and mortar?

[ChadTower]

A good piece of hardware is a good piece of hardware.  Being a year old isn't going to change that.

[hulkster]

A good piece of hardware is a good piece of hardware.  Being a year old isn't going to change that.

i was more referring to the hdmi stuff.  im reading a review on cnet.com right now...not that i dont trust you, but i wanted to see another opinion.  heres one problem they had:

The VSX-1016TXV's connectivity options look, on the surface at least, to be fairly comprehensive, but there's two significant shortcomings. While it offers switching for two HDMI sources, the receiver doesn't convert composite, S-Video, and component video to HDMI. Ideally, you'd be able to run all your source cables into the Pioneer and have whatever signal is coming in converted for output to a single HDMI cable that's connected to your HDTV. Alas, that isn't possible here. For example, if you run the component-video input from your Xbox 360 into the Pioneer, you'd still have to connect a separate component cable to output from the receiver to your TV. To further complicate matters, the HDMI inputs can accept video signals only from source devices. Audio signals can be passed along to the speakers of an HDMI-equipped TV, but you won't get any audio from your receiver unless you also connect analog or digital audio cables from the source. While it's true that most receivers with more robust HDMI implementation (video and audio via a single HDMI cable, analog-to-digital HDMI video conversion) cost more, that's starting to change. The JVC RX-D702 and the JVC RX-D411S, for instance, can handle both features with aplomb, despite street prices below $600 and $500, respectively.

[ChadTower]

It's not about features, it's about quality.  Go to the AVS forum thread and read it.  Hardcore audiophiles were swappnig $1500 receivers for that Panny.  And it's in your price range.

[hulkster]

It's not about features, it's about quality.  Go to the AVS forum thread and read it.  Hardcore audiophiles were swappnig $1500 receivers for that Panny.  And it's in your price range.

well i agree that i can live without most features, but hdmi for me is a must.  so if it doesnt have that, then i dont buy.  and the link i posted above was for a pioneer receiver.

[bfauska]

I have the Panisonic receiver 1 model below the HDMI model and love it.  Mine is the SA-55 and I think the 75 is the HDMI one.  Regardless, I whole-heartedly recommend checking out the AVS forum receiver section.  That forum is to home A/V what this forum is to arcade controls.  Every home theater purchase I have made based on the recommendations of those users has ended up on a short list of best purchases ever.  I have loved my projector, receiver, harmony remote, and subwoofer, all chosen based on best bang for the buck from users of that forum.  There is a wealth of knowledge over there and it is the first place I look for home A/V information.

I forgot to mention some answers to some of your basic questions.

Unless you try to get more out of your speakers than you have been, they should be fine.  The amp is only going to supply as much power as you ask it to, and if you don't turn it up louder than you would have in the past then the speakers are fairly safe (generalized, but a fairly safe rule of thumb.)

Any respectable receiver is going to allow you to choose whether you are running 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 and send the signals accordingly.  Mine is 7.1, but I run it in 5.1 and get all the sound that I would get if I ran a 5.1 only receiver.

Edited twice: once to answer a few questions and again to add to me list of fantastic purchases.

[ChadTower]

Is there much source material out there in 7.1?  I haven't seen much at all.

[boykster]

I'm having some serious deja vu with this thread.....

 

Even a year old, I would recommend the panasonic SA-XR55 if you can find one.  The pioneer I referenced (or what ever the current model # would be in that line) would also be a great suggestion.  I also recommend the AVR forum over at AVS, but it can be intimidating at times, and is not filtered by price -> much of the traffic there is discussing higher end AVR's, although they DO have seperate components broken out into a seperate forum section.

I'm still loving my SA-55..

 

[boykster]

Is there much source material out there in 7.1?  I haven't seen much at all.

not a ton, but as HD-DVD and BluRay become more prevalent, you will see it more and more.  However, most "good" 7.1 receivers will create synthetic rear channels (if directed to) just like a good 5.1 will construct surround channels from lesser audio formats.  The 7.1 on the XR55 is really pretty good, and if you don't want to use it, just set the receiver to 5.1.

Don't be suprised if the format evolves to 9.1 and beyond as home theater evolves....imagine a floor and ceiling channel for true audio immersion......

 

[bfauska]

I would recommend outright the 55 too, if the requirement of HDMI hadn't been mentioned.  I think the 75 is the one for that, but research would be better than believing me.

[boykster]

There was a thread recently...yours even perhaps hulkster....where we threw out AVR with HDMI upconversion for less than $xxx....

I'm pretty sure that an Onkyo was one that was suggested....

I'll be honest, unless you buy a VERY specific model recommendation that has been tested thoroughly by the AV fanatics over at AVS (or other forum), you're rolling the dice on a sub $1000 AVR.  And I'm not an audiophile elitist, I'm just saying that it's a fact that the lower end AVR's are built with underpowered and sometimes noisy powersupplies and last years decoding chips, etc.  Not saying you won't be satisfied with it, most ppl are, but frankly the difference between run of the mill inexpensive AVR #A and AVR #B is going to be minimal.  In this price range, BUY for the feature set you want (in this case 5.1 / 7.1 audio and HDMI switching and cross-conversion), and buy from a place you can return to if you're not happy.

Edited: changed "but" to BUY....duh...

[shmokes]

While converting all sources to HDMI is great, you can get the same effect with very little trouble either using the macros on the remote (I'm assuming, but not sure, that the remote that comes with it will do macros), or with a Harmony remote.  If you have a Harmony remote the thing pretty much sets itself up.  Macros are a pain in the ass to set up, but it'll just take 30 minutes or so and then you'll be set for good.

Anyway, all it means is that you'll have an HDMI and a component cable running to your TV  (it will convert composite and s-video to component).  Component cables can run all the same resolutions as HDMI and, while native HD content delivered over HDMI might look better than when delivered over component, that's not going to apply to stuff that's been converted from a lesser source.  If your PS1 is connected to your receiver via S-video cables, is not going to look any better if it makes it's way to the TV via HDMI than component.

So, all you have to do is set up a Macro, so that when you push the button on your remote that switches the receiver to the inputs the PS2 is on, it ALSO simultaneously switches your TV to component.  And when you press the button that switches to your DVD player or PS3 it simultaneously switches your TV back to HDMI.   The only thing insult is the mere fact that you have two cables runningbetwen the receiver and TV instead of one.  Big effing deal, right? 

[DrumAnBass]

I have a 2004 Kenwood VR-8070 THX Select receiver that I love. No HDMI or video up-rezing, but it packs a punch and was a great value back in the day. I would think you would be able to snag one of these on eBay for less than $300 today.
Review here: http://www.laaudiofile.com/vr8070.html

They have inexpensive remote controlled HDMI switchboxes if you need that capability.
http://www.meritline.com/4-ports-hdmi-switch.html

[hulkster]

okay, so my pioneer receiver has been shipped.  im pumped!  thanks for the tips guys.

now i need to look at getting some speakers.  while the ones i have will work for now, i will need some new ones.  do i need buy each speaker (or rather, each couple of speakers) seperately?  or do i need to get the "speaker sets" they are offered?  im not looking for crazy top of the line stuff...as evident by my $400 receiver purchase....but i do want something that will sound pretty good.  any recommendations for good budget speakers?  i rarely just blast away on the stereo, and most of the stuff coming out of my home theater is just movies and games at reasonable volume. 

[ChadTower]

I use mostly Cambridge Soundworks speakers and they perform really well for the price.  They sell them on ebay pretty cheap, too.  They're supposedly seconds or refurbs but I've never gotten one with an issue I could identify.

[hulkster]

I use mostly Cambridge Soundworks speakers and they perform really well for the price.  They sell them on ebay pretty cheap, too.  They're supposedly seconds or refurbs but I've never gotten one with an issue I could identify.

dang chad, you are johnny on the spot with the comments!   

ill take a look at the speakers you mentioned.  im guessing thats a whole speaker set, and not just "cambridge soundworks subwoofer" or whatever.

[ChadTower]

They do sell packages but I find that it's better to mix and match to get what you really want.  I believe I use the MC50 for corners and the MC150 for the center channel.  The sub is either a BassCube 10s or 8s, can't remember which at the moment.  They can all be had pretty inexpensively on Ebay and are well regarded in terms of price/performance ratio.

[hulkster]

okay, so my receiver is on the way....cept i was looking at some pics of the back of it online and im wondering....

its got those twist lock connector things for speakers.  the speaker wires ive been using are decent, but they have the gold pin type ends to them that plug into the old speakers.  you know, the little red and black switches that you lift up and then put the end of the wire in? 

my question is, will my existing speaker wire ends go into the new twist lock connectors on my new receiver?  or do i have to get special connectors or something? 

[ChadTower]

Cut the ends off.

[hulkster]

Cut the ends off.

so i just stick the bare exposed wires into the twist locks??    that sounds bad, but i guess thats what everyone does?

anyway, here are the floor standing speakers im looking at for the front two.  http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542013030  for $100 you cant beat that.  again, im not an audiophile...so you think these will be good?
also, this for the center channel http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548100324 and then these for the back rear channels http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542100438 ....and then ill need a sub woofer.

[ChadTower]

You don't need floorstanding speakers unless you need to fill a hella big room.  The small MC50s I use can fill a medium room with enough volume that people run from it.  Literally.  If that's what you want, it's cool, but don't get trapped into thinking bigger is better.

What's wrong with bare ends and screw terminals?  That's how your house is wired... so long as the termination into the block is clean you'll be just fine.

[boykster]

Don't do anything with the wire ends until you get the new receiver in house.  Most AVR's use what are known as 5-way binding posts, and accomodate a TON of different attachment options - bare wire, banana plugs, ring connectors, U connectors, and pin connectors. 

If what's on the wire now doesnt' work, then Chad's 100% correct: clip the connector off, strip the wire, and connect it to the binding post.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with bare wire termination, and many purists are of the opinion that a direct wire connection is better than any intermediary.

As for the speakers, that's a total judgement call on your part floor standing vs bookshelf.  Depends on your room etc.  I use large bookshelf speakers as "mains" in my theater with a matched center....

[hulkster]

well the rec room i have is 24' x 24'.  however, my home theater "section" if you will, is only about 18' x 18' or so though.  like, when you walk in....the sectional couch and tv and all that is not directlly in the center of the whole room.  but still, you think smaller speakers can fill a 24' x 24' room?

[ChadTower]

No, the MC50s can't fill a room that size... they'd blow out trying, probably.  If you move up to like the MC150s they could do it, I think.  You're may have issues trying to directionize (if that's a word) in only a section of a room that big.

[hulkster]

what about the sony's i mentioned before?  are they too weak?  how do i determine how much power is enough??

[boykster]

My room is 12x18 and my bookshelf mains fill it well, but it's an enclosed space.  I honestly don't know if those sony floorstanding speakers will fill that room or not, it's not as simple as just the speakers.  what's your total budget for speakers again?  I'd seriously consider buying from a dealer / vendor that will allow you to return the speakers within 30days with no restocking fee.  Many vendors consider that a demo period and you'd be suprised how many have a process in place for just that.

I'm a big fan of HTD speakers (home theater direct) and that's what I use in my theater.  I have a Level 3 set of front bookshelf speakers, a Level 3 center channel, and a pair of Level 2 speakers as my rear surrounds.  My side surrounds are some cambridge soundworks dipole/bipoles that I picked up for better dispersion of the surrounds.  HTD give you a 30day in home trial, and they'll pay return shipping even if you're not satisfied.

[zaphod]

I agree with auditioning speakers in person.  When I purchased my Paradigms yeeears ago, I spent several hours over several visits listening to various CDs of mine on different speakers.  Broadly speaking, you can get a comparative idea of two speakers maximum output by looking at the sensitivity- the higher the less power is required for the same volume.  Not that you'd ever push it to the max but that allows for a fair comparison using just their spec sheets for max output.

Spend some listening time (and possibly a little more money) and buy good quality speakers now.  I certainly wouldn't waste your time on Sony speakers.  Cambridge are well reviewed.  I've also heard some pretty decent Polks.  Infinity's normally have low sensitivity but have nice sound (not their entry-levels, though).  For a smaller room, I've actually heard an Onkyo HTIB sound pretty nice.  My parents have a set. 

And, for what its worth, I love banana plugs for connecting the cables to the receiver and speakers. 

[ChadTower]

OTOH, if you buy a decent speaker, it will sound pretty good.  For most people the difference between the Polk and the Infinity is pretty irrelevant.  So unless you really want to get that last 0.5% out of the configuration, just get some decent speakers, and be happy.

[hulkster]

yeah, well my receiver came in yesterday.  i hooked it up and ran the auto calibration thing on the receiver.  i havent watched a movie yet (waiting on hdmi cables to come in from monoprice.com) but when i do, i should be able to notice a difference then.

i have however, noticed that the sound is a lot bolder and clearer than before.  maybe its just louder because the speakers have been optimized.  im not sure, but just from watching tv last night (heroes in HD), it really sounded cleaner.  sweet. 

[DrumAnBass]

Regarding speakers - another option is to go the DIY route - check out these project speakers posted by PartsExpress: http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/homeaudio.cfm

I used Cambridge Soundworks myself for center and surrounds and like them. You also might want to check out http://www.orbaudio.com/,  http://www.aperionaudio.com, http://www.axiomaudio.com/, and http://www.aad-direct.com/