DO NOT BUY A FORD!!!! What do I do....(updated 9-20-07)

[lordtodd75]

I bought a used 2004 Ford Ranger about 3 years ago. Mind you, when I say used, it had less the 200 miles on it. Anyway my warranty was up in november of last year. Driving home from work yesterday I here a loud noise under my hood. CLANK! the engine goes, my mechanic says a bearing went and suggests I just get a new motor. A little history might help...

Since I bought the truck I have had nothing but problems. The dealer I bought it from (Matt Blatt Auto, New Jersey)referred me to a ford dealership for warranty repairs. I had it in there shop 11 times. Most of the problems were fixed except the transmission slipping and problems starting, both were intermittent. I called 2 different lemon law lawyers and they said because the car was classified as used, there was nothing they could do. The dealership I bought it from said sure we will fix it, at full price. The ford dealership said because they couldnt simulate the problem they wouldnt be able to fix it. So with not much of a choice, I decided I would deal with the problems and hope for the best. Well, with less then 50000 miles, I have a blown motor. What do i do?

[ChadTower]

I've been researching this class of pickup recently... pretty consistently, the Ford Ranger has the worst reviews, reliability ratings, and resale values... all the way across the board.  Plus you rarely see old Rangers out there beating around.

OTOH, the Tacoma seems to bet the best small pickup across the board in all of those same categories.  Plus they are everywhere.

[2600]

My dad currently has a Tacoma.  Just mentioned to me how it is the best truck he has ever owned.

He's always had a truck and the ranger was one of them.  He hated it.

[one2three]

I had an '84 Ranger that wasn't too bad, typical 150K+ miles issues, but the fact still remains that a Ford is nothing more than a F'd Over Rebuilt Dodge.

Toyotas are expensive, but thier reliability is well worth it IMHO.

[shardian]

My dad got a 2003 Ranger new. He had nothing but problems out of it from the start.

[billf]

I had an '84 Ranger that wasn't too bad, typical 150K+ miles issues, but the fact still remains that a Ford is nothing more than a F'd Over Rebuilt Dodge.

Toyotas are expensive, but thier reliability is well worth it IMHO.

Found On Road Dead

[koz319]

Found On Road Dead
[/quote]

Hmm, I always thought it was:

Fixed Or Repaired Daily

[SavannahLion]

Since sometime in the 80's Ford's quality went straight down hill.

My father owned a 196? Ford truck for years. After the engine blew in the early 70's, he dropped a big block in there and it was the most reliable truck ever.

He retired the truck in 1990 and purchased a brand new same year F-150. The truck was the pits. It spend far too much time in the garage. At one point, Ford had the truck on this special hydraulic lift that tilted the truck almost 90 degrees on the nose so the mechanic could work on the craptastic engine. The transmission was overhauled several times. Cracks developed in the engine causing a myraid of problems. We eventually deemed it useless and sometime in 2003, against his protests, My mother purchased a Tacoma for him. He fell in love with it.

Sometime in 2000, my mother purchased a little Ford SUV thingie (forget the model). The thing is a severe throwback to the Escort years. Which my mother also owned. Both vehicles are made so shoddily that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- litterly falls off the vehicles as she's driving down the road. She looks like a ---smurfing--- redneck with all the stupid duct tape holding parts in place.

My girlfriend owns a Ford Windstar. If there's a scary vehicle, this is it. One of the seatbelt buckles split and warranty won't cover it. We drove to L.A. one weekend and while we were there, the transmission wouldn't shift, we were stuck in park fortunately. Imagine if the transmission couldn't shift if we were coming over the grapevine or if we stopped at some dinky reststop, minus cell service, in the middle of ---fudgesicle--- all nowhere? Warranty refused to cover tow service because it happened on a holiday weekend and we were forced to use a third party tow service. We were trapped in L.A. until 9PM Monday (from Saturday). Turns out when we took the vehicle in for its regular maintainence, one of the things they worked on was the transmission. The ---smurfing--- mechanic didn't even reassemble the transmission right. Then the plastic bumper cover shattered from road debris, bit into the tire and shredded the tire. Again, no warranty coverage since it fell under "road hazard."

I'm all for, "American Made," but Fords ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is ridiculus. Reminds of a Garfield comic where John is buying a new car. The dealer tells John he stands besides every vehicle he sells. John asks him why just before he throws his car into gear and flies backwards.

What can you do? Based on my experience with Ford. Not a hell of a lot besides buying a Toyota or something else.

[Drews Arcade]

First of all that sucks, I hear your pain.

Buying a used car that has been titled and only driven 200 miles sounds fishy. Now if it was a demo on the new car lot that would be a different story. Was it a flood car that was totaled out, then cleaned up and then sold? I would do a car fax to rule that out, then call Ford customer care and professionally explain your problem and ask for any assistance. But don't be rude, piss them off and they say scew you, and don't say your never buying a Ford again if you expect them to help.

[Ken Layton]

Cars today are way overpriced and shoddily built. They are throw away units. My car was built in 1968, has 415,000 miles on it and still runs.

I would never buy any car built after 1970 as they aren't made to last.

[somunny]

2001 F-150 still going strong.  Personally, I wouldn't buy any other Ford besides the F-150.

1998 F-150 here.  150K w/ no major problems so far.  (knock wood) 

[Chris G]

That's a tough one.... hard to dump a 3 or 4 year old car, but who's to say something else won't go wrong if you spring for a new motor.   

I have a 2000 Tacoma.  The water pump leaked a little and had to be replaced while still under warranty, but I haven't had a problem with it since... there's definitely something to the reliability reputations.

[Singapura]

I've been the owner of a Ford Scorpio and a Ford Mondeo and both served me well. The Scorpio (European "goggle eye" model) had a lrage design flaw though. The fusebox was built right under the water drain. Instead of correcting the flaw they put a plastic cap over it which after some years would crack allowing water to seep into the fusebox shorting the whole system. No idea why they put something like that on the market. And then they talk about Chinese design being bad...

[ChadTower]

Cars today are way overpriced and shoddily built. They are throw away units. My car was built in 1968, has 415,000 miles on it and still runs.

I would never buy any car built after 1970 as they aren't made to last.

You don't live in New England, do you?  There are no cars here built before 1980 that aren't restoration toys.  Cars here last 8 years max.  After that the best built car is falling apart in rusty chunks on the road.  Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find a car built before 1985 that is still running without major restoration work on the undercarriage. 

[_) (V) (-)]

I'd say it's a sign, cut your losses and sell it for parts.

Fabricated Of Refried Dung

For the full list check here...
http://www.xtremegm.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803

[TOK]

I've owned a bunch of trucks... Currently have a Nissan Titan, Toyota Tacoma, and a Ford E250 van.
Of all the trucks I've owned, the 99 Tacoma has been the most reliable. Since buying it new in 99 it has needed 3 things, all of which are consumables... Tires, front brakes and a battery. I think the second best truck I ever owned was a late 80's S-10. It was a stripper though, so much of its reliability may have been because there was nothing to break. 
My buddy bought it off me when I got the Titan and he's been driving it for two years with only a couple very minor issues. I guess it has about 160,000 miles on it now.

I had a Ranger before that, and had some pretty major issues with it, including it blowing a spark plug out of the head and taking the threads with it. All the 3 liter Fords in our work fleet developed trans problems by 70,000 miles (4 speed automatics). Seems like your experience is about par for the course with mine.

The Ford van has been pretty good. Its a 5.4 Triton with about 70,000 miles on it. Had coil pack issues that caused a wicked misfire on two separate occasions, but the truck got me home like that both times. Seems to be a real common issue with the V8 Fords.

My suggestion would be to buy a 4x4 Tacoma. It will last you forever, and the 4x4's also hold their value like crazy.

[boykster]

If I was in the market for a medium / light duty truck I would buy a toyota tacoma 4x4 or a honda ridgeline.

Both great vehicles that will hold their value and serve you well.....

As for your Ranger problems, that sux man.  Its too bad that they're not providing repair/replacement under warranty considering the amount of work that WAS done under warranty that didn't fix the problem.  I have an '00 Lexus RX300 that had a minor oil seal leak just a few thousand miles out of warranty, and my dealer fixed as if it was a warranty repair....effing GREAT post sale support.

[koolmoecraig]

Cars today are way overpriced and shoddily built. They are throw away units. My car was built in 1968, has 415,000 miles on it and still runs.

I would never buy any car built after 1970 as they aren't made to last.

Hope you don't crash.  You are only missing out on 37 years of safety advancement.

[ChadTower]

An extra 1500 pounds of steel will do more good than 37 years of safety advancement in an aluminum and plastic can.  Slam into a 72 Buick with anything other than a Hummer and see what happens.

[mpm32]

If you do drop in a new engine, check out www.jasperengines.com

The engine went in my '99 Durango and I was in the same situation.  Get another truck or replace the engine.

I had just replaced all the ball joints, UV joints, brakes and some other stuff myself plus it was paid for so I had no loan on it.

The new engine installed was around $4k and Jasper has a great warentee.  I didn't really want to buy a new truck and if I went used I wouldn't know the history of it.

[ChadTower]

Erm... not sure when you were looking, but I've been pricing these trucks as I plan to buy one soon.  The F150 costs more than the Tacoma at retail.  Are you sure you're not thinking of the Tundra?

[ChadTower]

Relax a little.  Everyone here who had mentioned Toyota thus far had been talking specifically about the Tacoma.

There is a v6 4x4 Tacoma that is roughly the same as the smaller F-150.  I test drove it last week.

[TOK]

Relax a little.  Everyone here who had mentioned Toyota thus far had been talking specifically about the Tacoma.

There is a v6 4x4 Tacoma that is roughly the same as the smaller F-150.  I test drove it last week.

There is only one sized F150. Regardless of the cab configuration its Fords full sized truck. The Tacoma, while pretty big for a mid sized truck is still just that.
F150 = Tundra
Ranger = Tacoma

The only other thing is that if you're comparing retail prices, particularly on American trucks, you're lost in the woods. Ford might as well make their 40,000 dollar truck 130,000 dollars, because nobody but a fool is paying the 40 grand. I haggled a Chevy Silverado HD down from 41,000 to 32 thousand, then balked on the deal and got the Titan. Managed to get 5 grand off the sticker on that.

I hate to haggle, but for that kind of cash, you're nuts not to.

[ChadTower]

I am comparing engine sizes and drive types.   The F150 is bigger, yes, but to me a 6cyl 4x4 and a 6cyl 4x4 are roughly the same vehicle.

And you can haggle down roughly the same percentage on most vehicles... so if you can get the F150 down $5000 off sticker, you're not going to do much differently on a Tacoma.  They're not $25,000 apart and that's what it would take to make much difference there.

[TOK]

I am comparing engine sizes and drive types.   The F150 is bigger, yes, but to me a 6cyl 4x4 and a 6cyl 4x4 are roughly the same vehicle.

And you can haggle down roughly the same percentage on most vehicles... so if you can get the F150 down $5000 off sticker, you're not going to do much differently on a Tacoma.  They're not $25,000 apart and that's what it would take to make much difference there.

You're basically comparing that they have 4 wheels, an engine, and a bed.
The base F-150 has a 1900 pound bed payload and 5700 pound towing capacity.
A V6 Tacoma has a 1300 pound bed payload and a 3500 pound towing capacity.

I like Toyotas over Fords, but those trucks are not comparable unless you're just using it as a car.

[koolmoecraig]

An extra 1500 pounds of steel will do more good than 37 years of safety advancement in an aluminum and plastic can.  Slam into a 72 Buick with anything other than a Hummer and see what happens.

With a low speed impact yes. With a high speed or head-on collision it's just not true at all. Pure myth. 

What aluminum cans do you speak of?  With a few exceptions, Audi is the pretty much the only manufacturer using aluminum in their frames and unibodies.  And it's an extremely high strength aluminum.  Also, steel technology has come a long way my friend.  I read recently that the high strength steel currently in use by most manufacturers wasn't even invented 10 years ago.  Modern cars are far and away more safe.  Cars now are designed to dissipate the crash energy similar to a Formula 1 car or Indy car.  To spread the impact forces around the entire car and not just one area.

Here is a Top Gear video for you:



It's no '72 Buick but the Volvo outweighs that Renault by a good 1000lbs. AND it's a Volvo which is known to be the maker of the safest cars on the road. You might be surprised at the result.

I'll take air bags, properly engineered crumple zones, high strength steel and modern engineering. Let me know how that lap belt and the "collapsible" steering column hold up in that Buick.  That is if the giant bellhousing of the transmission doesn't kill you on it's way up through the 35 year-old stamped steel floors.

How about a side impact?  Any door beams in the Buick? Nope.  Airbags? Nope. Just a nice, shining panel of steel and a window regulator.

How about avoiding the accident in the first place?  A 4500lb car with single piston caliper front discs(if you are lucky) and drum brakes in the back. Yeah, good luck with that in a panic situation.

Maybe you can do some evasive maneuvering to avoid the accident.  Hows the handling and road feel with that overboosted steering rack?(required because the car is so heavy) and leaf spring rear suspension? Hahaha.

I love old cars dearly but safe they aren't in any way shape or form.

[koolmoecraig]

Here is a great article on this:

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety.html

"vehicle quality is a more important safety consideration than weight was evident in the wide range in risks between different subcompact and compact models. The safest small cars, the Volkswagen Jetta and Honda Civic, were shown to be twice as safe as the comparably sized Chevrolet Cavalier, Ford Escort, and Dodge Neon."

It's not just the size but the quality of the engineering.  Once again American manufacturers at the bottom of the list.

"In looking at all vehicles, cars designed by Honda and Toyota consistently are safer, and weigh less, than comparable cars designed by domestic manufacturers."

It's more than an issue of mass.

[Texasmame]

"I think we threw a rod."

"Is that bad?"

 

[koolmoecraig]

Blues Brothers!

The second movie I ever saw.  Star Wars was first.

[meismr]

I had a big old car (Chrysler Cordoba) that got rear ended.  The lady who hit me cracked her radiator and the front bumper flew all over.  The thing looked totaled.  My Cordoba's rear bumper was pushed in a little bit but that was all.  Her air bag went off and was OK and walked over to check on me.  I however had my bell rung even though I braced myself.  I think older cars had the mindset of protecting the car in the hopes that the passengers inside would benefit.  The newer cars sacrifice the cars instead of the passenger.  Me I have two little girls, I'll gladly sacrifice my car every crash... 
Thanks,
Eric

[boykster]

I had a big old car (Chrysler Cordoba) that got rear ended.  The lady who hit me cracked her radiator and the front bumper flew all over.  The thing looked totaled.  My Cordoba's rear bumper was pushed in a little bit but that was all.  Her air bag went off and was OK and walked over to check on me.  I however had my bell rung even though I braced myself.  I think older cars had the mindset of protecting the car in the hopes that the passengers inside would benefit.  The newer cars sacrifice the cars instead of the passenger.  Me I have two little girls, I'll gladly sacrifice my car every crash... 
Thanks,
Eric

that's exactly right. Not only are their new construction materials, safety systems (seatbelt pretensioners, airbags, etc),but the cars are now designed to absorb and dissapate the energy.  Older cars might be heavier and more "solid", but all of that energy has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is into the passengers.

during the late 80's and 90's, F1 and CART really hit their safety programs hard.  Cars became so "rigid" as a safety mechanism (to protect the driver) that they started to see a huge increase in neck injuries from massive transfer of energy.  Now the cars are designed with crash energy dissapating crumple zones that absorb the impact energy.  It may look bad, but heck, I'll take a car repair bill any day over the loss of the life of a friend or family member.

[ChadTower]

You're basically comparing that they have 4 wheels, an engine, and a bed.

Yes, I am, because when I'm buying, I have no towing needs, making the extra ton or so of towing capacity moot.

[TOK]

You're basically comparing that they have 4 wheels, an engine, and a bed.

Yes, I am, because when I'm buying, I have no towing needs, making the extra ton or so of towing capacity moot.

Thats fine, but definitely doesn't qualify you to say they're the same thing to other people with different needs. Thats all.

On the safety subject, I'm amazed that people think old cars are safer than new ones. Mass is an issue in any accident, but in a car to car or car to barrier impact, new cars are WAY safer than old ones.

I also contend that new cars are not less reliable. Its nothing to see cars for sale now with 120,000+ miles on them in great running condition. These are with the original engines, transmissions etc.
Many of the 450,000 mile claims you see are basically a body that has had huge amounts of the driveline replaced.

Fuel injection is SO much better than carburation with vacuum/mechanical chokes. My first car was a Dodge Dart, and every time it dropped below 40 degrees, I had to prop the choke open with a pencil after starting it because it refused to open when the car warmed up. I also had a Mustang with a totally mechanical setup which required sliding the choke lever in while cranking until it got to the spot it would fire. It just seemed a general thing to have carb issues on anything with about 60,000 miles on it. I'm a better mechanic for having been through that mess, but I have no desire to relive it. 

[ChadTower]

I also contend that new cars are not less reliable. Its nothing to see cars for sale now with 120,000+ miles on them in great running condition. These are with the original engines, transmissions etc.
Many of the 450,000 mile claims you see are basically a body that has had huge amounts of the driveline replaced.

Not everywhere.  Sure as hell not here.  You see some cars, like the Civics and Corollas like that, but any American car here has little value past 100k.  Everything on the undercarriage is rusted out.  Even my Civic, at 110k, which admittedly will run for another 100k probably, is hitting the rust barrier.  Cars here are junk well before the driveline is dead in most cases and short of driving inside there's just nothing that can be done about it.

[shardian]

I also contend that new cars are not less reliable. Its nothing to see cars for sale now with 120,000+ miles on them in great running condition. These are with the original engines, transmissions etc.
Many of the 450,000 mile claims you see are basically a body that has had huge amounts of the driveline replaced.

Not everywhere.  Sure as hell not here.  You see some cars, like the Civics and Corollas like that, but any American car here has little value past 100k.  Everything on the undercarriage is rusted out.  Even my Civic, at 110k, which admittedly will run for another 100k probably, is hitting the rust barrier.  Cars here are junk well before the driveline is dead in most cases and short of driving inside there's just nothing that can be done about it.

I have two Volvo's with high miles and I have come to the conclusion that Volvo's are immune to rust...unlike American cars. Not a spot on either of them on body or undercarriage. The newer one even has a messed up place from a fender bender, and there isn't any rust there for some odd reason either. And yes, I live in a high humidity area where the car stays covered in salt all winter.

[ChadTower]

It's not only visible rust.  The stuff like ball joints, the exhaust, etc... when you have to replace it all once over the life of the car, that's wear and tear.  But when you're looking at a bill of a couple grand for a new motor knowing that if you want 200k that stuff is all going to be replaced 2 or 3 times in that period, it's just not worth dropping the new engine in.

[ChadTower]

Here it's not the salt in the air that does it... it's the inch of salt on the roads for half the year that destroys the car.  Some weeks during the winter there is so much salt on the roads you can taste it in the air.  Paint means little in this case when there are 150 roadrash chips in it from 6 years of use for the rust to appear in.

[lordtodd75]

Wow this thread was derailed quickly. Well I just got off of the phone with the mechanic and it looks like he cant find any used engines. It will be $4800.00 for a jasper engine installed, which I cannot afford. So I pose the question from my OP, what should I do. Any ideas? I dont see why this guy can't replace the bearing that went instead of replacing the entire engine, but I am not a mechanic either so....

[mpm32]

When a crankshaft bearing goes, it will put all of its metal shavings all throughout the engine.  The only way to repair this would to do a total teardown and rebuild.  You would need a new crankshaft as the bearing surfaces will most likely be trashed.  The block would need to be cleaned and all passages blown out. To do this all components must be taken off.  So with the labor involved, it would make more sense to get another working engine.

If you can't afford a jasper, you should call around to some salvage yard to see if they have an engine for your truck.  But if you put in a used engine, you will not know the condition of it or how it was maintained and could end up in the same situation somewhere down the road.

[Drews Arcade]

Check car-part.com, you WILL find a used engine there, if thats what you want. If you do buy a used engine ask them what the waranty is and what does it cover. They usally don't cover crap, but at least you know what your getting.

[missioncontrol]

Sorry to hear of your Ford problems, but I love my Bronco and when it bites the dust, I'll be in the market for another one.....

1987 Ford Bronco FTW

[_) (V) (-)]

Wow this thread was derailed quickly. Well I just got off of the phone with the mechanic and it looks like he cant find any used engines. It will be $4800.00 for a jasper engine installed, which I cannot afford. So I pose the question from my OP, what should I do. Any ideas? I dont see why this guy can't replace the bearing that went instead of replacing the entire engine, but I am not a mechanic either so....

He most likely doesn't want to take the chance of putting in the bearing and having another one go. Then you'd complain that he screwed you after paying him a few hundred for labor. Or maybe he doesn't own a torque wrench. It's not that hard really, and you can flush out the engine with out removing it from the car. Any chips usually fall into the bottom of the oil pan and you can wash the rest down from above. You can actually get a bearing kit with oversize ones to compansate for any wear in the crankshaft.

I'd say, yank the pan and bearing cap to see how bad the crank is worn, then make a decision.

P.S. Jasper engines (at least in this area) are known as grenades.

[lordtodd75]

Well, I got a used engine for $750.00, thank you drews arcade for the link. The mechanic says the book hours for putting in the engine come out to about $900.00, but if he does it in less time then that, he will charge me less. As soon as this hunk of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is running it is going to get traded in. I cant wait to be out from under that truck.

I also forgot to mention that I spoke with a representative from ford a couple of days ago and she said that they would run some testing on the truck to see if the blown engine was my fault. If it was through no fault of my own that the engine went, ford would pick up the cost for repairs. I drove the truck 10 miles to the nearest dealership, doing 25 miles an hour. When I got there the guy said there was no chance I was going to get it fixed for free and that it was going to cost me around $7000.00!!! I called ford customer care and the woman I spoke with said that whoever I spoke with in my prior phone call gave me false information and that my truck was out of warrranty, so there was nothing ford was going to do to help me. After arguing for about 20 minutes I got nowhere and had to drive my truck right back home. I am currently waiting for a supervisor to call me back.

I will never buy a ford again in my life and I will do everything in my power to make sure noone else does. These ---smurfing--- customer service people are so smug. You would think considering the circumstances they would have been a little more apologetic to me, this lady just kept saying I should have bought an extended warranty. Well ---fudgesicle--- me for expecting an engine to run for 100,000 miles.

[ChadTower]

Some just end up like that... we had a Subaru Legacy that had a near dead short block at 80k.  Great car when it ran but man was it full of problems.

[ChadTower]

When we traded that Legacy in the guy walked around it, started it up and listened for two seconds, and that was it.  The engine problems never became apparent until it had been warmed up and it looked right out of the showroom.  That engine probably had another couple thousand miles in it but definitely no more.

[shardian]

When we traded that Legacy in the guy walked around it, started it up and listened for two seconds, and that was it.  The engine problems never became apparent until it had been warmed up and it looked right out of the showroom.  That engine probably had another couple thousand miles in it but definitely no more.

For the junkers, they usually just offload them at auction for whatever they can get out of it. I'm no used car sales expert, but I would venture a guess that them buying your junker as a trade-in is tax deductible as a write off loss.

[ChadTower]

Don't know that I'd call that car a junker... toss a new short block in and it was actually a really nice car.  We just didn't want it anymore after having had to pay to fix the AWD tranny that cost so damn much. 

[weasel-like_animal]

FWIW... I had a '96 full size Bronco, 5.8L v8, way past 100,000 miles with absolutely not ONE problem, aside from routine maintenance like belts and fluids, etc. Compared to my two Honda Accords, and my Audi A4, the bronco was far and away the most reliable vehicle I ever owned. Not to mention, it was unstoppable in snow, mud, and off-road. I'm still kicking myself for selling it.

That being said, my dad has a Toyota 4Runner, that has also been incredibly well-made and reliable.

[ChadTower]

Unstoppable in snow, mud, rain, earthquake... so long as there is a gas station every 100 miles.