Punchout, officially emulated. *for ChadTower*

[shmokes]

So, now the Wii virtual console will finally be put to the test.  I haven't got it yet, but PunchOut! is available for download on Nintendo's Virtual Console service.  Unfortunately it is not the version that includes Mike Tyson, but it is pretty much identical aside from that, and from what I understand the only differences between the final boss, Mr. Dream, and Mike Tyson are cosmetic. 

There's possibly no game in the world that requires more perfect timing than PunchOut!! so this should really put the Wii emulator to the test.

[ChadTower]

It's definitely a serious test of the emulator, I agree there.  Every NES emulator I've seen falls down on this game.

[kenzo42]

There's possibly no game in the world that requires more perfect timing than PunchOut!! so this should really put the Wii emulator to the test.

I'd have to disagree. I believe the Street Fighter series (including CVS2,MVC2,SFA3, etc) requires much more precision than any game I've ever played. I never thought the timing in PunchOut! was very tight. This was referring to Mike Tyson's PunchOut, btw.

[ChadTower]

The difference there, of course, being single button presses versus the timing of a complex sequence.

[Howard_Casto]

There's possibly no game in the world that requires more perfect timing than PunchOut!! so this should really put the Wii emulator to the test.

I'd have to disagree. I believe the Street Fighter series (including CVS2,MVC2,SFA3, etc) requires much more precision than any game I've ever played. I never thought the timing in PunchOut! was very tight. This was referring to Mike Tyson's PunchOut, btw.

You couldn't be more wrong on that one.  SF is a slow slug compared to punchout.  Sf is actually designed to purposefully have some "give" when it comes to timing moves.  I can quickly press down,down-forward,forward punch , tap each direction in quickly or do them in a rather slow, fluid, motion and still get a fireball every time.  With that being said, if my motion drifts from those three directions at all, the move won't complete.  Don't confuse moves being difficult to pull off with moves requiring precise timing. 

Punchout, on the otherhand, is almost up there with twitch games like Dragon's Lair, when it comes to timing moves.  There's no margin for error on the later characters. 

p.s.  Mr. Dream IS mike tyson, they literally just painted the sprites to make him a white guy.  Personally, I think they should have released the mike tyson version and updated it to reflect the new crazy tattoo and insaine ear-biting action! 

[kenzo42]

I understand that timing in special moves for street fighter have been significantly loosened.

However, I speak of moves like 'roll cancel' where the button combination is required w/ in the first 3 frames (~1/10 of a second) of a special move. This is a move that renders you invincible for the duration of a special move.

I don't know the fps window for Dragon's Lair's.

[Howard_Casto]

Well then that settles it...punchout is more picky then.  No three frame delay, you have a 0 frame window to get your timing right. 

[ChadTower]

Plus, the whole game is like that, not just one tiny subset of the potential actions.

[shmokes]

I doubt that.  I can get Bald Bull or Piston Honda in the stomach 100% of the time.  I can hardly believe I don't have more than a single frame in which to hit the button.  Even the really tough ones, like dodging Sandman's vicious uppercuts (single hardest combo to dodge in the whole game if you ask me) must give you more than a single frame I would think.

[ChadTower]

The windows definitely tighten up as the game goes on.  The earlier guys you can almost count to two before you press the button and it still works.  Try that with Tyson and you won't get past the first three punches.

[ChadTower]

So I busted out Mike Tyson's Punch Out this week.  My first time playing for more than a minute in years.  Great, great game.  Made it all the way up to Super Macho Man before losing... took a couple tries to get past him to Mike Tyson.  Haven't beaten Tyson yet.

The margin of error on Super Macho Man is really really small and it is nonexistant for Tyson.

[Malenko]

I liked Super Punch Out Better, more forgiving

[ChadTower]

Heh.  I never had an SNES back in the day.

I'm back to beating Super Macho Man in the first round.  Can't get much past a minute with Tyson yet though.

[Lilwolf]

btw, did they redo the controls for this?  ie, can I put and weave to play?

if so, I'm downloading it...

otherwise, I'll just have to do that with mame and the windows wii remote driver... (I think I can do it with that right??  anyone try?)

[Justin Z]

So I busted out Mike Tyson's Punch Out this week.  My first time playing for more than a minute in years.  Great, great game.  Made it all the way up to Super Macho Man before losing... took a couple tries to get past him to Mike Tyson.  Haven't beaten Tyson yet.

The margin of error on Super Macho Man is really really small and it is nonexistant for Tyson.

And the worst part is since the margin of error is so small, and practically nonexistent as you say, for Tyson, is that you end up getting jumpy.  You dodge when you shouldn't and then end up running right into one of his punches in the first 90 seconds.  Drives me batty.

[ChadTower]

That's exactly what keeps happening to me.  I dodge too soon and then there isn't enough time to recover.  I'll get it back, I fought him yesterday and made it to just under the end of the first round.

[SodaPopinksi]

I kick butt at Tyson's Punchout with a real nintendo controller, it's so much easier to do the dodge one direction then quickly move back for the super fast punches It's a challenge with a joystick... for me anyways.

[ChadTower]

WTF are you talking about, a joystick... this is real hardware only.  Real hardware or go home.

[genesim]

Real hardware was an aracde stick on the original arcade.

I prefer the mame players choice anyway.    Though the originals are more fun then the nintendo incarnets.

PUNCH OUT and SUPER PUNCH OUT are damn fun.   F*ck Tyson.

[ChadTower]

Not in the context of this conversation.  This conversation has been ongoing, off and on, for at least a year and a half now.  It has always been about the accuracy and speed of NES emulation on various platforms, usually centered around Mike Tyson's Punch Out being the measuring stick of just how good the timing is on an emulator.  You see a lot of emulators out there labeled as "100%" when this particular game still is dramatically harder than on a real NES.

[ChadTower]

Just for giggles, last night I spent 15 minutes playing this game on the NES.  I then spent the next 15 minutes playing it via emulator on the Xbox... the timing wasn't even close.  The game is much, much more difficult on the Xbox and probably unbeatable.  I can beat everyone except Tyson without a ton of trouble on the NES.

Then did the same for SMB2.  The timing is also off on this game, with every single controller signal delayed by roughly the same amount of time.  That's probably just an artifact of emulation and available resources.  This game didn't seem to be that much harder as a result but I only got about halfway through the game.

[genesim]

Punchout and Superpunch out takes skill vs thinking.

All are great games, but arcade sticks capture the gameplay aspect much better for me.

A game pad just doesn't cut it IMHO.

Besides..the NES was a 4-way, so it won't be hurt by a good arcade 4 way anyway.

Unless you have an original pad gameplay will suffer.

MAME version is spot on as I remember.   Why...because it acts just like the original hardware did!..that and it is "free".

[ChadTower]

The NES is an 8 way pad.