I tried Ultrapin

[Popcorrin]

The best choice would have been a CRT monitor, but then you do not get the great graphics display like the LCD offers. Choosing a monitor for this project was one of the biggest problems because no of the availble options are perfect in any way.

I'm not sure I follow you.  You say you do not get the great graphics display with a crt like you do an LCD.  Actually when it comes to image quality, CRT is still the standard by which everything else tries to measure up to.  The major drawback of CRT's is size(depth) and weight. 
Now that might change with the SED technology, the best of both worlds, just curious how much it will cost though. 

[ChadTower]

He probably meant size and shape of the display itself.

[Ahigh]

I'm still around.  I'm moving into my house and I'll be posting up more often.

Best of luck to everyone involved in making such a great product.  There were probably at least 100 devs directly and indirectly contributing.

--
- Ahigh

[Ahigh]

The problems related to the LCD screen are enough to make UltraPin a total flop.

It's a shame as it could've been great.

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- Ahigh

[RayB]

The problems related to the LCD screen are enough to make UltraPin a total flop.

It's a shame as it could've been great.

--
- Ahigh

Do you know what latency the screen they chose has? I'm seeing fairly affordable LCDs on sale these days, with as low as 2ms display.

[ChadTower]

The problems related to the LCD screen are enough to make UltraPin a total flop.

It's a shame as it could've been great.

Do you still work for them?  Just curious.  Ex employees tend to hate on their former employer's products... the way I hate on Kodak's digital cameras.   

[Buddabing]

I saw one of these at the Texas Pinball Festival. I didn't play it, but I watched someone else playing it. The graphics need work. There was no lighting or shadows on the screen. The wireforms didn't look like they were floating above the table like they are supposed to.

From the perspective of the player, IMO the Ultrapin should look like a real pin rather than a cartoony pinball simulator.

The Ultrapin might be an application for the Ageia physics card, if the internals of the simulator take the actual physics of pinball into account. Hardware accelerated physics would speed up the application greatly.

The product has a lot of promise. If it is sold for less than the price of a new pin, say $3500 or so, and the graphics are improved, there could be a real market for this product.

I see the price listed at $6k. Well, maybe there's a market for that, but I could almost buy two NIB machines for that much dough.

[Ahigh]

I'm familiar with Ageia and I've written software using the routines, however, UltraPin's needs for physics are quite different from what they have to offer.

The reason, in my personal opinion, that the graphics look non-real and cartoony is because they are on an LCD screen that shows extreme blurring when eye-tracking the moving pinball.

Also, to Chad, I don't just hate it because it is from a former employer.  You can ask anybody that worked with me on it.  I just hate the LCD screen on it.  The product is amazing and still would be if GlobalVR were willing to understand (first .. I think they're a year behind but making progress) and to solve (second .. not bloody likely) the display problems.  The response time and the latency are two independent numbers.  The latency numbers are never disclosed, except on forums.  Not part of the advertised specs.

I saw one of these at the Texas Pinball Festival. I didn't play it, but I watched someone else playing it. The graphics need work. There was no lighting or shadows on the screen. The wireforms didn't look like they were floating above the table like they are supposed to.

From the perspective of the player, IMO the Ultrapin should look like a real pin rather than a cartoony pinball simulator.

The Ultrapin might be an application for the Ageia physics card, if the internals of the simulator take the actual physics of pinball into account. Hardware accelerated physics would speed up the application greatly.

The product has a lot of promise. If it is sold for less than the price of a new pin, say $3500 or so, and the graphics are improved, there could be a real market for this product.

I see the price listed at $6k. Well, maybe there's a market for that, but I could almost buy two NIB machines for that much dough.

[Xiaou2]

The graphics look cartoony because they were rendered in 3d.    The results
of rendered objects rarely look as real as Real photographs.    When rendering
in  3d,  many times there is a lack of color depth and they do not render enough
simulated light rays in order to save render times.

 LCD's have come a Long way.   While I used to hate them because of
stationary blurriness, ... todays new LCDs are astounding.   Im using a 
37" sceptre 1080p (1920*1080)  for  my PC monitor.   Its crystal clear and
the color is just about as good as my 17" crt.   Its very hard to see any
difference between the two... and I have a very good eye for such things.

 The biggest problem with LCDs is making sure you are using the Native
resolution of the LCD.  Otherwise, it has to use a hardware scaler.. which
usually is poor at conversion, and blurs and distorts the images.

 Also, one must usa a DVI connector - or the HDMI connection.
Mine has a DVI to HDMI cord included.   Using the VGA DSub connection
looked horrible on the thing.  DVI was 1000% better in color and clarity. 
I wonder if the Ultrapin is using DVI.  I doubt that thier LCD was 1080p res...
and honestly, I wouldnt take anything less that that... as the pixels are so
small they are barely visible.
 
 This particular model does have a slight blurr when there is a lot of fast movment...
however, its over a year old, and its not a top of the line model.   The new models
have much faster responses and greater contrast ability.    The problem will most
likly be cost in all areas.

 To do photo-realistic rendering would take a ton of time and money... as well
as possibly still looking less than optimal.    Doing a true 'photographed' version
would be awesome..  but that too is time consuming.   For great example,
of photo results,  see Microsofts 'Pinball arcade'. (from what i can
recall)    Adding a better LCD will come down in cost in time.. but for now, it
may be too expensive to justify to add a top of the line model.

 I also wish there was an option for selection of a Top view instead of
the faked perspective.   (unless they could get stereoscopic 3d to work
well   )

 Another thing that Really bothered me about the machine (I played it at the
Rochester gameroom show)   was that there was no 'feeling'.   Strange
as it may sound, when you hit the flipper button and do not Feel a
thump from a coil...  it really feels like you are playing a video and not
a pin.   Adding 3 live coils would be much better.  One located near
each side of the cab for flippers, and one somewhere else to simulate
jet bumpers,  kickers..ect.     Sound alone just doesnt cut it.
 
 I believe they could resell the feedback units to PC users too,
to use in thier home controllers.  Same for the push/tilt
sensors and plunger interface.

 The cartoon like looks did detract from the experience tho.  As there
were plenty of real pins to play, and they looked so much better.

 The physics were a bit off.  They were decent... but the games
were much easier than thier real counterparts.  The ball was much
more predictable, and controllable.  Peoples ball playtime was very long
as a result.

 There was a lot of light glare too.   They probably should add a polarizing
film on the playfeild glass to help keep the feilds from glare.


 

[ChadTower]

You are playing a video and not a pin.  Every criticism I hear of this thing is that it doesn't feel like a real pin.  Well, it's not a real pin, so judging it exactly as you would a real pin isn't going to result in a good review.  I think the key to success here is going to be how many people are able to get past the "it ain't a real pin" factor and judge it for what it actually happens to be.

[shardian]

I like the idea of adding a little force-feedback to the unit. I wish I was in a location where I could try it out...