Electrical hazard!

[hypernova]

A few days ago I tried cleaning the exhaust fan button on our range.  This is an OLD range.  It may be the one that was installed when the house was built in the 70s.  But it still works.  Well it did.  The button was all greasy, and didn't flip on/off very well.  Obviously grease was in there.

So I was hoping to get into that panel with the buttons (and temp controls) to clean the buttons.  I went downstairs and flipped the breaker to the range.  I then proceeded to dislodge the CP for the range.  It's about a 3x4 inch footprint.  I was able to flip it up 90 degrees before the wires became to tight to move any more.  And then I discovered there was simply no way to clean the inside of the buttons.  It's one solid piece...well it might as well be.  There's absolutely no way to crack those things open without a hammer.  So I gave up.  When the damn range finally quits working, then I won't have to worry about it anymore.

That's enough backstory.  Onto the point of the post.  When I went back down to flip the breaker back on, it wouldn't stay on!  It kept flipping off, acting like there's something wrong with the line.  So rather than call an electrician and have him end up finding out that the breaker happened to screw up, I want to go out and get a new breaker switch to make sure it's not that simple.  I've already looked at the wiring on the panel for the range.  Nothing looks wrong visibly.  So my only option is to change the breaker switch.

So what do I need to do?  I assume flipping the main switch on the breaker box will suffice when I change the breaker switch?  There's not any chance of a stored charge anywhere that I have to be wary of, is there?

[USSEnterprise]

IIRC, there are two big ass wires usually coming into the box that will not shut off when you throw the main breaker, both of which carry 120v at an ungodly amperage. Other than that, everything should be safe. Basically, anything before the big breaker will still be hot.

I am not responsible for any damage to yourself or the universe because of you following my advice

[markt]

I repair commercial cooking equipment for a living.
Most likely the breaker is fine.
You have a short that is tripping the breaker.
Pull the panel back apart and check your wiring.
You may see a burn spot where the short happened.

[hypernova]

I actually did that three times before giving up on it and acknowledging that maybe it was the breaker.
I did a simple test today.  I moved the wires going into that breaker into the breaker designated for the oven (of course I disconnected the oven.)  Works like a charm.
And even more proof?  The breaker for the range STILL trips off even when nothing is connected to it.

So how do I pull a breaker switch out?  Simply yank?

[ChadTower]

You don't.  If you don't know how, you don't do it.  At all.  This isn't something to ---fudgesicle--- around with.  Assuming it is the breaker is a bad, bad, bad idea.  You may be right but if you're not you could kill yourself or worse (yes, this would be worse) set up a dangerous condition that could burn your house down later on with people in it.

Seriously.  Working in the panel is not the place to learn.

[saint]

I'm with Chad. Spend the money and don't kill anyone.

[Ed_McCarron]

I actually did that three times before giving up on it and acknowledging that maybe it was the breaker.
I did a simple test today.  I moved the wires going into that breaker into the breaker designated for the oven (of course I disconnected the oven.)  Works like a charm.
And even more proof?  The breaker for the range STILL trips off even when nothing is connected to it.

So how do I pull a breaker switch out?  Simply yank?

The breaker trips when theres nothing on the load side?

Probably the breaker - but err on the side of caution and get the wiring that was there checked out.

Theres 2 types of disconnects in a breaker, thermal and instantaneous.  Thermal trips when you pull 20.1A out of a 20A breaker for 15 minutes.  Think of it as a slo-blo fuse.  Instantaneous trips when you plug in a shorted appliance.

Too many trips of either kind will weaken the breaker to the point where it needs to be replaced.  If you arbitrarily replace it, you could do more damage than good if your house burns down because the new breaker let those 20.1A heat up the wiring to the point of no return.

Its a long shot, but be safe and let a pro check it out.

[FrizzleFried]

There are two things I just try not to mess with...

ELECTRICITY and a WOMAN SCORNED.

You are asking for trouble with both...

[hypernova]

All right!  YOU WIN!

But only because I can't pull the damn breaker out without fearing that I'm gonna break something else.  That thing's in there pretty good.

The breaker trips when theres nothing on the load side?

Correct.  No hot OR neutral wire is even connected to it, and it still trips off.

The range works fine when connected to the oven's breaker (same amperage and such switch)  No trips.  The damn switch is broken.

I'll use this as an excuse to possibly get another breaker looked at.  It's been off for a few years now.  Now THAT one I think there's a short somewhere.  (It controls the floodlights to the back deck AND the outlets in the main bathroom.  Don't look at me, I didn't wire it that way.  Her family did.)

[hypernova]

Just had a guy come in.  (Someone my mom knew who services all kinds of things at the condo association she lives in.)

The problem?  2 bad breakers.  Glad to know I was right all along, and now the other breaker will be fixed, so we'll have a fully functional house!

Watched him dislodge the switch.  Just took a flathead to the inside portion of the switch, and beat it outwards, and it popped loose.  He's doing all this without even cutting the power.  Playing with cords and the tightening screws and such.  I ain't doing that.

Hell, he even touched the incoming wires that come from the outside with his bare hands.  I don't care what I saw, I will never ever ever do that.

[Texasmame]

Just had a guy come in.  (Someone my mom knew who services all kinds of things at the condo association she lives in.)

The problem?  2 bad breakers.  Glad to know I was right all along, and now the other breaker will be fixed, so we'll have a fully functional house!

Watched him dislodge the switch.  Just took a flathead to the inside portion of the switch, and beat it outwards, and it popped loose.  He's doing all this without even cutting the power.  Playing with cords and the tightening screws and such.  I ain't doing that.

Hell, he even touched the incoming wires that come from the outside with his bare hands.  I don't care what I saw, I will never ever ever do that.

Either you're mistaken or he's a complete moron.

 

I'll rewire a light switch, discharge a monitor, etc. but I won't WON'T mess with the breakers at all.  That's where the "dearly departed" voltages and amps live.   

[danny_galaga]

IIRC, there are two big ass wires usually coming into the box that will not shut off when you throw the main breaker, both of which carry 120v at an ungodly amperage. Other than that, everything should be safe. Basically, anything before the big breaker will still be hot.

I am not responsible for any damage to yourself or the universe because of you following my advice

amps is amps guys. your body will draw a certain amount directly in proportion to its resistance. the wires coming out of your switch can handle as much amperage as is needed to kill you. if you touch a wire thats rated much higher, youll still draw the same amperage. doesnt matter if its a light cord, or a cable 12" thick. if it has 120v (240 in civilised countries  ) then thats all you need to tell you its dangerous. of course if its 3 phase then the voltage is higher and thus the amperage will be higher. BUT THE LOWEST VOLTAGE IN YOUR HOUSE IN THE SMALLEST WIRE can still kill you.dont ever make the mistake of thinking that this wire is safer than that.

anyway, glad you took the safest option hyper (",)

[Ed_McCarron]

Either you're mistaken or he's a complete moron.

No, I'm sure he saw it.  Work with electricity enough, and you get complacent.  I can't count the number of times I've redone a (switch/outlet) while live.  As long as you don't touch anything else, and your shoes are decent insulators, you can safely touch the hot wire.  I do it all the time.  Your body is at potential 120v, and as long as you don't ground out, no worries.

I don't recommend it to amateurs, tho.  And definitely don't let anyone break your concentration.

How do you think the guys that fix the HV distribution lines do it?  The boom on their bucket is fiberglass - they shunt themselves to the live wire to work on it - no differential, no danger.