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Spinner resolution and Revenge of DOH

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RandyT:

--- Quote from: davieboynj on November 17, 2006, 10:48:09 am ---Saw you posted and was hoping it was something technical...  oh well.  If you have anything else you want me to figure out, let me know. 


--- End quote ---

Yeah, sorry.  Got my coffee now :P


Here's something quick:  Yes, if the hardware is not using all of the information it is collecting, either by dividing it or discarding it, increasing the sensitivity in MAME will still allow for "near perfect", if not completely authentic gameplay.

However, MAME limits the upward scaling to 2.55 x of the original, which may or may not be enough to get it there.  This in turn, may be addressed through mouse speed settings in windows, but that starts getting messy.  More info shortly. :)

EDIT:

Also, tooth count on one does not always equal tooth count on another, as it can be interpreted at 1x, 2x or 4x depending on the hardware.  From what I can tell (need more research) DOH appears to be using 2x, while Arkanoid uses 1x.


RandyT

davieboynj:

--- Quote from: RandyT on November 17, 2006, 11:00:47 am ---Also, tooth count on one does not always equal tooth count on another, as it can be interpreted at 1x, 2x or 4x depending on the hardware.  DOH appears to be using 2x, while Arkanoid uses 1x.

--- End quote ---

Sorry, you're losing me on this "hardware" thing...  they both have identical hardware (a 2 led spinner) connected to the L and R of a jamma harness.  To me, this means that there are the same number of pulses being sent to the PCB per revolution.  As Doh does not jump more than one pixel at a time, I would argue that DOH uses 1x and Arkanoid uses 1/2x on the software side...  2x seems, to me, to indicate that DOH skips, which it doesn't. 

If you're saying that you can use 3 led's to get double the sensitivity out of a wheel than with 2, I'd agree that you'd only need 1/2 the teeth that an arkanoid spinner has. 

Hmm - Maybe we should categorize spinners by pulses per revolution, not teeth?

Or is this just a tomayto-tomahto thing, and i've missed the point completely?

RayB:
Is the hardware truly identical or could the gearing be different?

Consider that the # of apertures passing by is what makes a difference (and sample rate of course)? For example, you could have a large wheel that spins at one rate, or have a very small wheel with less holes in it, geared such that it spins very fast and the result is the same # of apertures passing over the sensor...

2600:
RandyT,
I am confused about what you are confused about.

davieboynj says that the angle is about half.
You think Doh is using a higher resolution, 2x.

It seems that you figured everything out in that Doh uses 2x and Arkanoid uses 1x.
And davieboynj has basically confirmed it by testing his boards.

I've been following the thread, but I'm not sure what else are you looking for?

u_rebelscum:

--- Quote from: davieboynj on November 17, 2006, 11:38:31 am ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on November 17, 2006, 11:00:47 am ---Also, tooth count on one does not always equal tooth count on another, as it can be interpreted at 1x, 2x or 4x depending on the hardware.  DOH appears to be using 2x, while Arkanoid uses 1x.

--- End quote ---

Sorry, you're losing me on this "hardware" thing...  they both have identical hardware (a 2 led spinner) connected to the L and R of a jamma harness.  To me, this means that there are the same number of pulses being sent to the PCB per revolution.
--- End quote ---

The difference is how the same "pulses" are decoded.  ("Pulse" is the wrong term though, as it implies a limited time on, while the actual signal is on or off depending on if the sensor is blocked or not, and can be steady on if it doesn't move.)  Remember that while PC mice decode the signals themselves and send the decoded info to the PC, (most) arcade spinners and TBs send the raw signals to the PCB.  So the PCB does the decoding.

This is how one arcade game can be 1x and the other 2x with the same spinner; different PCBs decoding differently.


I can go into the details of 1x, 2x, 4x, but to quote parapharse MEASUREMENTS & CONTROL, September 1988, Gerald S. Gordon:

"... quadrature square-waves contain 4 edges [or states] per [tooth]. Simple circuitry can be used to detect 1, 2, or 4 of these edges [states]."

Older tech detected on edges, current tech does state changes, but both can do the 1x, 2x, or 4x per tooth.

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