Re-glueing lifted side art?

[ifkz]

Okay, I'm about ready to bondo and strip my Centipede cabinet.  Thanks for everyone that helped!
Here's the last question (for the moment), what should I use to re-glue some of the side art that has lifted away from the cabinet?  Wood glue?  Regular Elmer's school glue?
Or should I simply cut off the ragged edges and paint the particle board to match the side art?

[BobA]

They sell tubes of glue specifically for touching up peeling wallpaper.  White glue applied sparingly and the same roller used to push down wallpaper seams would probably work well.

[ChadTower]

Wood glue is Elmer's white glue.  It just has a different setting/drying time.  I use that "elementary school" glue for a lot of wood repairs and it works just as well.  I have kids so there is a lot of it around the house (both glue and repairs).

[prOk]

Wood glue is NOT elmers glue.. it looks the same and dries clear like it but that's about it.  the adhesion properties are very different.

[BobA]

The white glue that I use when not using wood glue is Weldbond.

Glues: glass, wood, tile, plaster, foam, laminates, cork, concrete, china, ceramics, glass, porcalain, marble, gypsumboard, leather, metal fabrics and MORE.

Glue and sealer.

It is not elmers white glue.

[prOk]

What you actually want is a contact cement.. you can get super77 by 3M in the spray can .

[ChadTower]

Wood glue is NOT elmers glue.. it looks the same and dries clear like it but that's about it.  the adhesion properties are very different.

I've had two professional cabinet makers tell me that it the bond is essentially the same when used between two wood surfaces.

[prOk]

Oh yea? well my mom said your mom's meatloaf is funky 

Honestly, the classic elmers white glue is meant for paper.. not wood.  Anyone that is a professional cabinet maker using white elmers glue is not a professional at all     The elmers company DOES however make a wood glue line so maybe that confused them.

/b

[MikeDeuce]

Can't add anything constructive, so I'll fan the flames!

"Polyvinyl resin emulsions are probably the most versatile and widely used wood adhesives. These are the white glues (Elmer's Glue-All, Franklin's Evertite white glue, Sears' white glue), also called PVA because of their principal constituent, polyvinyl acetate. White glues have a long shelf life and can be used as long as the resin remains emulsified. Setting is by water absorption and quite rapid at room temperature; clamping time of less than one hour may suffice  if the joints are not to be stressed immediately. The white glues are non-staining and dry clear. The glue does not dull tools but excess squeeze-out may clog or foul sandpaper under frictional heating because the adhesive is thermoplastic. These glues develop high strength but have low resistance to moisture and heat. An important characteristic is their "cold flow," or creep under sustained loading. This is an asset where dimensional conflict is involved, as in mortise and tenon joints. However, in edge gluing and lamination, "shifting" of adjacent pieces may in time produce visible unevenness at joints. In chair seats, joints may open along end grain due to drastic moisture change."
-R. Bruce Hoadley, Fine Woodworking

[prOk]

If you trust using Elmers white glue to build your cabinet, then go for it    But, I ask you, if it's all the same stuff, why is there such a thing as Elmer's Wood Glue?   :yoda:Mmmm good question that is yesssss:yoda:

hehe

[ChadTower]

I have made repairs with Elmer's White Glue and they were very strong when done correctly.

How much does Elmer's Wood Glue cost vs Elmer's White Glue?  I think they are not as different as many say and the Elmer's Wood Glue tube is there because they can charge more for it with a different name.

[MikeDeuce]

Same article has this to say:

Numerous modified PVA glues give greater rigidity and improved heat resistance. The so-called aliphatic resin glues, commonly called yellow glue (Franklin's Titebond, Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue) fall into this group. The low viscosity of the white glues was always troublesome in furniture assembly, since any dribble of glue from joints caused difficulty in later finishing. The aliphatic glues are much more viscous and greatly reduce this problem. Some consider these glues as representing an intermediate position between the white glues and the urea-formaldehyde glues. However, yellow glues are not sufficiently weather-resistant to replace urea resins in carpentry.


Personally I've used white glue in a pinch because I have it readily available inside, and it's worked fine enough. I do buy into the hype of more purpose-made glues in the "workshop" though... and particularly when it's something I've invested time in.

[DrewKaree]

If you trust using Elmers white glue to build your cabinet, then go for it

Nobody's even come close to claiming this.  Why are you defending it so vociferously? 

This is about reapplying some sideart for crying out loud.  If I were to take the same "don't read what people are saying" stance you have, I'd be blathering on about you advising about using wood glue to re-glue sideart.

Mike's first snippet from that article laid out the facts behind white glues and why they might be used in some applications.  Chad stated what a cabinetmaker had said about the bond of white glue.  Nowhere has it been said "Use white glue for your cab". 

Any retard can see that there's a more purpose-oriented glue that is available and it's called "wood glue".  What you're doing is confusing the use of one glue over the other as the ONLY method for attaching them, and it's clearly wrong.

But, I ask YOU, if Elmer's Wood Glue is the end-all solution you're painting it to be, why does white glue WORK on wood?

Lastly, for you to claim that a professional cabinet maker using white elmers glue is not a professional at all is not only highly offensive, but ignorant.  Just because you can't, don't, or won't see a use for it doesn't mean that a professional - someone you'll readily claim you aren't, since you've let us know what your job is - isn't able to do things with materials that you are incapable of wrapping your head around.

[mccoy178]

Drew, he advised the guy to use Super77, so he is correct in his evaluation.  I back him up because Chad has once again been a ---tallywhacker--- and made a fact statement when it is only actually an opinion.  Wether it be Soapboy or Chad making a stupid reply, it is stupid non the less.  I agree, if Chad feels confident enough to build his shed out of Elmers white glue, then more power to him.  I look forward to his funny repair questions in everything else.

[JackTucky]

Chad used white glue to repair his water heater.

Jacktucky

[nostrebor]

For the record, both white and yellow glue are PVA based as stated above. Both can be used to adhere wood as attested by numerous WW magazines and WW professionals. Both have their particular place in WW use. I personally use both, one if I need more open time for assembly (white) the other for less open and less mess (yellow).

Neither is a great candidate for re-adhering side art, although either would possibly work. A contact adhesive, as mentioned, is better. I'm not sure that a spray adhesive such as 77 is a good choice though. It really depends on the exposure. 77 is really messy to work with unless you have a large area exposed.

[ChadTower]

For the record, both white and yellow glue are PVA based as stated above. Both can be used to adhere wood as attested by numerous WW magazines and WW professionals. Both have their particular place in WW use. I personally use both, one if I need more open time for assembly (white) the other for less open and less mess (yellow).

That's pretty much what I was saying.  The major difference between the two is viscosity, and thus drying time.  White glue takes longer to dry and gives you more time to work with it.  It also runs more because it is thinner and can be messier.  But the bond with the wood is pretty much the same with white as with yellow.

I was looking forward to this forum when Saint first started it.  Every thread I see in here, though, most of which I don't post in, seems to be mostly bitching and infighting.  It's as bad as PnR.

[DrewKaree]

It is not, buttnugget

[prOk]

The discussion is always great as long as everyone agrees with you apparently chad    I really don't care who agrees with me or not, I do have some experience in the industry and feel I have some real world knowledge on the topic to share.  If you don't agree, that's fine and dandy with me, but I hope I can shed some light on things for others that will help them make a better decision.

As for Drew's rant.. jesus man, did you even read what I said and why?  Seriously, you show me just ONE professional cabinet maker that has a bottle of Elmers white glue in their shop..  just one.     White glue works fine for glueing dowels in for pop together furniture but other than that it has questionable bonding properties especially when it comes to moisture (Humidity IS moisture and over time humidity will make your item slowly degrade in bond power and fall apart), that is why wood glues have a more water resistant property to them with the side effect of easy cleanup.   No true pro in the woodworking world would build a serious piece using a glue that doesn't deal with heat and humidity well.   What if their product is installed in a person's shed that goes over 100degrees in the summer?  Or is in a rainy part of the country where humidity goes all over the place?  From Mikedeuce's statement below "These glues develop high strength but have low resistance to moisture and heat."  RIGHT.   That just backs up what i've been trying to say all along.    I can quote a million things that say white glue will bond wood, but you have to read ALL of the quote to see the realities of what that bond truly is.


I don't quite get the need for that simple thing to become a flame war really.. like I said, if you trust white glue to make your cabinet then go for it.  Me, i'll spend the extra 25 cents a bottle and get  the purpose made glue.

Seems like people are all hot and heavy to fight around here.   

[ChadTower]

The discussion is always great as long as everyone agrees with you apparently chad      

Yeah, it's always great when you throw out a couple of short points and get called a ---tallywhacker--- for your troubles.  Not that it bothers me, it just demonstrates how the Woodworking forum tends to be.

[nostrebor]

One of the most effective ways to stop the flaming over stupid, stupid, stuff is to stop replying to each other. Jeebus, you guys act like your married or sumthin.

I agree with Pr0k that purpose made glue is better, and that is is superior in moist enviros. I agree with Chad that there are Pros out there that use the other for certain things. Why don't we leave it at that and quit arguing over glue. GLUE?!

I for one am excited over the fact that Saint has provided this place to discuss WW stuff. I really don't see the need to pound home every <ahem> "fact" that you guys seem to embrace, at the risk of turnin this place into P-n-R. Post your fact and let it stand. If someone contradicts, one of the other contributors will reply and a consensus will be made based upon the majority of the replies.

 If we are gonna talk WW, we need to look at the application in this group (arcade cabinets). We also need to look at the experience level of this group, and reply accordingly. Prok, simply saying that the glue does not perform well in a humid enviro would be sufficient. If you think Chad is trolling you, blow him off. Chad, if you don't agree with pr0k, post some facts from non-local research. Your pro cabinet maker friends might be full of crap, or they might not. The only way to be sure is to research the answer beyond one source.

anyway... my 2 cents. Now flame at will.

[prOk]

I tried to post simple facts without getting into nitty gritty detail about things..    In all reality, I was the only person to answer the original poster's question with the type of adhesive he really needed.. then someone half read the thread and jumped my case for telling him to use wood glue to restick sideart which is not what I did at all.   

I know it looks like i'm arguing,  but everything I say I can back up with facts (oddly enough some of the 'facts' people posted to argue with me actually backed up my facts   It kinda sucks to see so much bad/unsafe advice being tossed around here regarding woodworking.  I'd hate to see someone get hurt because of it.   Of course, there are plenty in here that are spot on with their answers but the ones that really don't know but answer anyway are setting people up for possibly dangerous results.  Why DrewKaree felt that need to write a page long diatribe in my direction when he was completely wrong about what he was writing is beyond me.

I guess that's part of what this forum is becoming for some reason.. why people need to troll I dunno.

[nostrebor]

I tried to post simple facts without getting into nitty gritty detail about things..    In all reality, I was the only person to answer the original poster's question with the type of adhesive he really needed.. then someone half read the thread and jumped my case for telling him to use wood glue to restick sideart which is not what I did at all.   

I know it looks like i'm arguing,  but everything I say I can back up with facts (oddly enough some of the 'facts' people posted to argue with me actually backed up my facts   It kinda sucks to see so much bad/unsafe advice being tossed around here regarding woodworking.  I'd hate to see someone get hurt because of it.   Of course, there are plenty in here that are spot on with their answers but the ones that really don't know but answer anyway are setting people up for possibly dangerous results.  Why DrewKaree felt that need to write a page long diatribe in my direction when he was completely wrong about what he was writing is beyond me.

I guess that's part of what this forum is becoming for some reason.. why people need to troll I dunno.

You are absolutely correct about the fact that you posted a good answer for thr OP's question. As far as the bad/questionable advice goes, I fully expect a less seasoned response from many of the members here. This board is just not focused on WW and many users are light woodworkers at best. I do think that the few here who have some solid WW experience have a bit of an obligation to post facts when needed, especially pertaining to safety. I just hope that we can all remember to question our own answers and research what we post, before we post it.

I for one would like to see all the trolling stay at woodnet or some other WW forum, and not muddy up Saint's effort here.

BTW, you'll figure out after a while that if drew is posting less than 1000 words, that's just his way of sayin "yup. You're right." or "nope. You're an idiot." If he breaks 5000 words, then he is hammerin on ya!

[johnvv]

Per previous suggestions by ProK, I've used contact cement to re-apply section of art that have come loose from marquees, cabinet sides, etc.

I've had excellent result.  Contact cement is easy to work with and, importantly easy to remove if you get a little too much on or some squeezes out.  I have not had problems with it holding the bond once fully set. 

I also agree that, for larger areas, the spray-on 3M Super 77 or 97 a good choice if you spend some time preparing and masking.  Make sure you have used it before and understand how quickly it will set.

[ifkz]

Okay, contact cement it is.  I'll look for it at Home Depot or Lowe's.