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How do you do this to your kids?

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shmokes:

--- Quote from: RandyT on October 02, 2006, 10:35:05 pm ---
shmokes (and others) would have everyone believe that corporal punishment (we are talking about spankings here, not the aforementioned fist-to-face) would turn a child into a social deviant, a cowering mass of quivering flesh, a maladjusted miscreant, or someone who, god forbid, pumps gas for a living.


--- End quote ---

Funny, until I read your last line I was fully intending to reference the return of the drama queen. 

The neat little package you tie everything up into, however, doesn't take into account that Chad is a successful software engineer in spite of beatings, not just spankings.  I'm a talented network admin on his way to law school in spite of outright abuse, not just spankings.  Applying your simplistic formula to these examples seems to indicate that the success of your kid varies directly with the degree of corporal punishment.  I just about think that those closed fists you got in the face are the direct cause of your owning your own business today.  What else could it be?

The fact is, people from all walks of life were spanked and/or beat as kids.  But when you tap into the message board of a community of people who have the various skills, aptitude and commitment to build something like an arcade cabinet you are obviously going to be talking to people who are, in general, well above average in terms of life success. 

You can hardly call a bunch of geeks like us a random sample.

ChadTower:

--- Quote from: shmokes on October 03, 2006, 01:02:15 am ---The neat little package you tie everything up into, however, doesn't take into account that Chad is a successful software engineer in spite of beatings, not just spankings. 

--- End quote ---

Well, it wasn't as often as Ed says, but when it happened it was usually enough to get the attention of teachers/peers the next day.  The usual response was "I got into a fight on the way home".

There were a couple of factors academically working extremely in my favor that I don't really want to get into here. 

And yes, getting abused as a kid leaves a person with permanent psychological issues.  No one who has ever been there would claim otherwise.  I never particularly cared much about getting slapped around.  Psychological abuse is 100x worse.  So is watching someone else get slapped around.

RandyT:

--- Quote from: shmokes on October 03, 2006, 01:02:15 am ---The neat little package you tie everything up into, however, doesn't take into account that Chad is a successful software engineer in spite of beatings, not just spankings.  I'm a talented network admin on his way to law school in spite of outright abuse, not just spankings.  Applying your simplistic formula to these examples seems to indicate that the success of your kid varies directly with the degree of corporal punishment.  I just about think that those closed fists you got in the face are the direct cause of your owning your own business today.  What else could it be?

The fact is, people from all walks of life were spanked and/or beat as kids.  But when you tap into the message board of a community of people who have the various skills, aptitude and commitment to build something like an arcade cabinet you are obviously going to be talking to people who are, in general, well above average in terms of life success. 

You can hardly call a bunch of geeks like us a random sample.

--- End quote ---

shmokes, you seem to have an uncanny way of putting words in my mouth.  The comment was meant to invoke some introspection.  It was not a proposed "formula for success".  The fact that the people in this discussion seem to have that one variable in common might say something to those who are interested in listening.

You cannot say that X is a direct effect of Y when it comes to human beings.  It's not possible because the variables are too great in numbers.  But you, as a person, are the sum of those variables.  And while you can't specifically say that the result of something as insignificant in a humans development as a spanking would be better or worse, you can accurately say that the result would be different.

Who you are is a direct result of those variables and to state otherwise would be saying that you were somehow immune to environmental conditioning.  The question I am posing is "what is that thing about you, that you can absolutely attribute to the form of discipline you received,  that you find so terrifically disturbing, you want to make damn sure your kids don't inherit?"

It's simple for one to sit back and say what a crap job your parents did to raise you (maybe the fact that you question that is proof enough) and it's even easier to do it if you have never raised children of your own, particularly those with a set of "difficult" variables.  But you wouldn't be you if things were different, and some of this discussion could perhaps be interpreted as people blaming their parents for some of their own personal shortcomings.  I'm not saying that this is the case, but only you would know that through some real, in-depth introspection.  And that's what is truly important when administering discipline to your children, as well as deciding which form it should take.

RandyT

ChadTower:

I know a lot of people who never became much of anything and fully blame their parents and their childhood.  Most of the time it's just lack of work ethic and real ambition.

mr.Curmudgeon:

--- Quote from: DrewKaree on October 02, 2006, 08:25:05 pm --- I'd also venture a guess that there are many here who DON'T "give their kids a beating".

"belt", "beat", "haul off", "whack", "smack", "pound", "whale"..... the term is "spank".
--- End quote ---

The couples I mentioned do not lay a hand on the children, as far as I have ever known (and as far as they claim).

As far as "spanking" being somehow less physical than a "whack", "smack", etc...well, it seems to me to be a rationalization of the action. It's a physical punishment, designed to scare or intimidate the child into changing their behavior based on a response to pain/humiliation/fear. And I imagine it makes no difference to the child whether you use the term "spank" or "beat"...

I'm not against hitting/smacking/fighting/corporal punishment in general, etc., it's just when it comes to the idea of child-rearing, I'd rather use another method of training. I don't see how spanking addresses the root cause of any problem, nor do I see how it encourages disciplined behavior based on reasoning, rather than conditioning.

You train a dog using physical methods of punishment, because they cannot reason. I don't want to "condition" my child in the same manner.



mrC

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