Main > Woodworking
Anyone make a cab out of anything other than MDF?
Potts:
Many opinions in this thread - here is one for you "use the lightest material possible"- I have built 2 cabinets and bloody hell they are heavy.
See my latest build -
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55917.0
I used plywood to curve around the surface and then I covered (liquid nailed) the ply with 3mm MDF - this method worked really well as it hides all the screws etc (much like laminating). I got the cabinet sprayed in 2Pak Car Paint - fantastic finish, cheaper then buying laminate and much easier as the spray guys patched up and smoothed off for a great result. ...............but the fingure prints are a nightmare and the surface is not very hardwaring I think I might go back to laminating in the future
One other thing other people havn't mentioned MDF is some TOXIC f :censored: ing ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, I am affraid of using it - even if I use a mask the stuff still gets everywhere and having my son run around the workshop is very concering
Plenty of ways to achieve your goals and moral is don't stop asking questions and within the sea of advice you might find the answer you are looking for :)
nostrebor:
Might as well give you a choice that fills your desires and need for a smooth surfaces without all the extra work...
If you want plywood, are concerned about resistance to water, and need a smooth paintable surface there is a product that fits those needs right off the shelf.
It is called "MDO" or "Sign Painters Board"
It is usually 7 ply plywood, bonded with water resistant resins, and it has a skin of Resin pulp that makes it as smooth as MDF, but the skin is much more water resistant and tough. This material is designed specifically to be used in outdoor environments and to be painted. It will cost about the same amount as veneered cabinet grade plywood. You should be able to order it at the big box stores, or from a lumberyard. Check around town for signmakers or billboard companies, they can tell you (or help you) get it.
Here is a link to the wiki with the different materials you can use. You can also google "MDO" for more info...
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Wood_products
nostrebor:
Looks like they also make MDO-A Which has a bonded ALUMINUM layer rather than paper. :o
That could be fun to play with in cabinet construction.
Howard_Casto:
I wanted to chime in on this one because I saw a lot of mis-information floating around.
1. Plywood is 10 times more durable than mdf. Mdf chips very easily and is prone to water damage. Plywood is far more resistant in those respects. Painting will not "waterproof" either material. If you get mdf really wet, even if it is painted, it will swell up or crumble. Painting protects it, but not completely and over time the paint will loose it's resistance to water. Shellac/water seal is the only way to waterproof wood. You probably don't want to put either on a cab.
2. Mdf, to my knowledge was never used on any commercial cabinet. Particle board was, laminated particle board. The thing is virtually any wood product will last forever once it is laminated so it wouldn't matter if it was pb or not. Also if you look at cabs that DO have damage it'll be the sections that have exposed/painted particle board.
3. Furniture grade plywood's finish is considerably more fragile than regular grade. That smooth finish is typically a vinear. This top layer is very soft and will marr easily.
I never use mdf on anything for the reasons others have mentioned. Plywood is easy to work with and you can cover it if you aren't fond of the grain. Btw it isn't hard to smooth out the regular grade either. You just need an electric sander and either a big jar of wood filler or some bondo/joint compound. Oh and on the lightest material possible bit, plywood (raw plywood, none of this mdf hybrid crap) is the lightest possible material you can use.
I'm suprised no one has mentioned laminate. It is more costly but if you put laminate on your cab it'll last forever barring some massive water damage. A plywood laminate combo would probably give you the best of both worlds.
nostrebor:
Speaking of mis-information...
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 13, 2006, 05:08:15 am ---I wanted to chime in on this one because I saw a lot of mis-information floating around.
1. Plywood is 10 times more durable than mdf. Mdf chips very easily and is prone to water damage. Plywood is far more resistant in those respects. Painting will not "waterproof" either material. If you get mdf really wet, even if it is painted, it will swell up or crumble. Painting protects it, but not completely and over time the paint will loose it's resistance to water. Shellac/water seal is the only way to waterproof wood. You probably don't want to put either on a cab.
--- End quote ---
To be very clear, neither MDF, nor plywood, nor particleboard are resistant to water damage. If you get *any* of these products really wet, they will swell, de-laminate, and generally do bad things that make cabinet builders cry. Plywood is maybe twice as resistant to water as MDF, but either will give heaps of trouble if saturated. Proper painting techniques will greatly help, but nothing short of epoxy encapsulation will make wood products water-proof.
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 13, 2006, 05:08:15 am ---
2. Mdf, to my knowledge was never used on any commercial cabinet. Particle board was, laminated particle board. The thing is virtually any wood product will last forever once it is laminated so it wouldn't matter if it was pb or not. Also if you look at cabs that DO have damage it'll be the sections that have exposed/painted particle board.
--- End quote ---
MDF was used in commercial cabinet construction. I have both a SEGA cabinet and a Game Plan cabinet in my garage right now, and both are made of pressed paper pulp board, with properties similar to modern MDF board. The Game Plan cab is severely water damaged, the Sega cab is in remarkably good shape.
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 13, 2006, 05:08:15 am ---
3. Furniture grade plywood's finish is considerably more fragile than regular grade. That smooth finish is typically a vinear. This top layer is very soft and will marr easily.
--- End quote ---
I agree. Furniture grade plywood should be handled with the same care you would handle real wood furniture.
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 13, 2006, 05:08:15 am ---
I never use mdf on anything for the reasons others have mentioned. Plywood is easy to work with and you can cover it if you aren't fond of the grain. Btw it isn't hard to smooth out the regular grade either. You just need an electric sander and either a big jar of wood filler or some bondo/joint compound. Oh and on the lightest material possible bit, plywood (raw plywood, none of this mdf hybrid ---meadow muffin---) is the lightest possible material you can use.
--- End quote ---
You can spend the time to flatten the grain of structural grade plywood, if you can purchase sheetstock that is not warped, edge damaged from shipping, or damaged to begin with. Structural grade plywood will have fewer plys, less water-resistant glues, and voids in the plys that will show up as you cut it. It is specifically designed to be strong and light in residential or commercial building construction, not flat and smooth for cabinet builders or finish carpenters.
-OR-
for about $10-$15 more per sheet you can use the MDO mentioned above, which is a plywood product that is shipped and handled like furniture grade plywood, uses resins and glues designed to be outdoors, has more wood plys, is manufactured to be flat and true, and has a finished surface that was designed *specifically* to be painted and leave a smooth void-free surface.
I think the choice should be left up to the reader. Plenty of factual information has been provided, and a search of MDO, MDF, and plywood on google will render a number of sites giving the proper usage and suggested practices for each.
An arcade cabinet builder is assembling a structure using techniques similar to building furniture. In my opinion we should not be steering these fledgling woodworkers toward a product that is designed for rough framing construction.
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