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MAME resolution q' -> Should I expect games to fill arcade monitor?
quarterback:
--- Quote from: Hiub1 on May 05, 2006, 03:49:27 pm ---Ok. I can give you a hand with Powerstrip. I don't think that you are running the right resolutions. I really need to write a FAQ for this, maybe this will be the beggining of it. Here are a couple of things that you need to understand.
The -Resolution tag in MAME will display at whatever resolution you indicated AS LONG as that resolution is loaded in your display driver for Windows. I haven't touched DOS or AdvMAME in ages so everything that I will tell you has to do with Windows XP.
--- End quote ---
Okey doke, I'll give it a shot! :)
Just a couple things first so we're on the same page:
(1) I'm running Win98 and not XP It's a much older computer (which also explains one reason I've been working with multiple versions of DOS mame and vantage)
(2) the video card is a built-n Rage2 something something. I can look that up to get more specific if need be
(3) I clearly have multiple problems, going back to another post I made about getting the "-monitor arcade" switch to work in both dos mame .36 and dos mame .55 It allows my arcade monitor to work fine in dos .36, but not 't work at all in .55, even with the exact same settings. I don't know why this is, but I'm just putting that info on the table as well.
(4) FWIW, I followed the Powerstrip FAQ in the video forum. I could never get the custom resolutions to 'take'. Powerstrip just kept telling me to reboot reboot reboot etc etc etc. But your process looks a little different, so I'm off to try it.
Thanks again for your help.
qb
Howard_Casto:
Powerstrip helps guys but here is the real issue.
Arcade monitors aren't meant to be able to run any game with the screen adjusted correctly without reaching around to the back and adjusting the trim. You are never going to get them perfect, even with powerstrips help.
Although it might result in degraded picture quality on some games, the easiest universal solution is to turn off auto-resolution and set mame to the maximum resolution and refresh rate your monitor can handle. Now you turn on auto-stretch and all is well. Since the games never change the resolution, you can fine tune this one resolution via your trim pots and never have to do it again. As I said, for certain games (due to really strange resolutions) this might not give the best picture, but for 90% of the games everything will look great with minimal effort.
u_rebelscum:
I think there's an incorrect assumption in this thread.
The resolution's pixal ratio is not the same as the physical arcade screen ratio. The only time the ratios can (& must) be the same is when the pixals are square.
While modern LCD PC monitor pixals are square, it doesn't mean that it was always this way. For one example, some HD ready TVs use very rectangle pixals; here's a Sony 16:9 plasma TV with 1024x1024 native resolution and 16:9 pixals! (It wasn't the only one, either.) "Old school" broadcast (NTSC PAL SECAM) are not 4:3 resolutions, yet they are designed to display on 4:3 TVs. One of the things about CRT over LCD & plasma (and always will be) is that CRTs can change pixal shape no problem, while the others can't.
Old school TVs are 4:3. Old school PC (CRT) monitors are (mostly) 4:3. AFAIK, all CRT arcade monitors were 4:3. (Some say there were some 10:7 arcade monitors, and I'm ignoring the 'recent' street fighter 16:10 projection monitors.)
And yet all can (and were designed to) display non-4:3 resolutions displayed at 4:3.
So bring things back on topic, 1941 was displayed on a 4:3 monitor, although the resolution ratio was not 4:3, intentionally. The 4:3 monitor was (hopefully) adjusted to display the image in the screen much like old CRTs are adjusted with a new resolution.
This would be no problem if you only played one game, or only games with that same resolution and refresh rate. You'd just adjust your monitor to fill the res to the full screen.
But with mame, there are hundreds of different resolution and refresh combinations. CRT PC monitors usually could remember settings for ~10 different combos; most arcade monitors only store just the one resolution they are expected to run on.
This is where mame's hardware stretch comes in. Think of it as stretching the image to your monitor size (not shape) while keeping the original aspect ratio of the orignal monitor (if -keepaspect and -screen_aspect correctly set to the ratio of your monitor). This is great for LCD, plasma and other fixed pixal monitors, and arcade monitors with limited screen resolutions. Note that while it's best to stretch in integers to prevent fuzzing, if your monitor's resolution ratio is not the same as the game's resolution ratio, at least one axis can't be integer stretched to match the original display ratio.
Again:
resolution ratio != arcade monitor ratio
resolution ratio != screen ratio
resolution ratio != displayed ratio
the ratio set in -resolution option != the ratio it will display
the ratio set in -screen_aspect option != the ratio it will display
IMO, arcade monitors should be treated almost like LCD monitors with one or two exceptions. (With arcade monitors) find the best resolution to display your games. Tell mame to use that resolution (for arcade CRT, if could be all games, or just specific game; for LCD should be all games). Use -hardwardstretch and/or -d3d and let mame stretch to display at the original ratio.
I hope this helps; I know I rambled a bit. Ask if anything needs to be cleared up.
quarterback:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on May 05, 2006, 04:25:13 pm ---Powerstrip helps guys but here is the real issue.
Arcade monitors aren't meant to be able to run any game with the screen adjusted correctly without reaching around to the back and adjusting the trim. You are never going to get them perfect, even with powerstrips help.
--- End quote ---
Got it. Again, I wasn't really concerned that each game wasn't perfect as much as I was confused about (a) the aspect ratio and what it meant to MAME and (b) the fact that changing the resolution in Mame doesn't seem to do what I'd think it would (which is to change the aspect ratio that the game appears on my screen)
Powerstrip would just be icing on the cake at this point. I'm just frustrated that it (still) doesn't work, even though I've followed the faq in mon/vid, the help given here, and that I know my chip *can* output arcade monitor frequencies... just not via powerstrip or some versions of mame.
--- Quote ---Although it might result in degraded picture quality on some games, the easiest universal solution is to turn off auto-resolution and set mame to the maximum resolution and refresh rate your monitor can handle. Now you turn on auto-stretch and all is well.
--- End quote ---
Got it. As far as this goes, I'm going to have to continue fiddling with MAME to figure out why my WG monitor works (somewhat) with .36 and vantage, but not with .55. But even with .36 I haven't figured out how to alter the image's aspect ratio on the monitor via the resolution and stretch settings since I can't get them change the aspect ratio in .36
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on May 05, 2006, 05:31:22 pm ---I think there's an incorrect assumption in this thread.
The resolution's pixal ratio is not the same as the physical arcade screen ratio.
1941 was displayed on a 4:3 monitor, although the resolution ratio was not 4:3, intentionally. The 4:3 monitor was (hopefully) adjusted to display the image in the screen much like old CRTs are adjusted with a new resolution.
--- End quote ---
Gotcha! So, my original question of "should I expect games" to fill the 4:3 monitor is "No", unless adjusted to do so either via hardware (pots on the back of the monitor) or software (Mame's resolution and stretch functions)
--- Quote ---This is where mame's hardware stretch comes in. Think of it as stretching the image to your monitor size (not shape) while keeping the original aspect ratio of the orignal monitor
--- End quote ---
And here's where I'm still having problems because I can't get the games to fill the screen (arcade or PC) when I use mame v.36 I *can* get them to fill the screen with windows command line v.55 (and I swear I've gotten them to fill the screen using dos .55 although at this very moment, I can't) BUT (for some unknown reason) dos v.55 won't work with my arcade monitor.
So: v.36 -> works with arcade monitor using "-monitor arcade" but I can't get .36 to fill any 4:3 screen on any kind of monitor
v.55 -> can be set up to fill the screen, but won't display image on arcade monitor, even when using "-monitor arcade"
--- Quote ---I hope this helps; I know I rambled a bit. Ask if anything needs to be cleared up.
--- End quote ---
It does help. I guess my real problems are:
- I can't get powerstrip running (not a huge problem, but it would be nice, particularly if I can't solve the following problems)
- I can't figure out how to get dos MAME to stretch to a 4:3 aspect ratio
- "-monitor arcade" in dmame .55 outputs a signal that neither my arcade monitor nor PC monitor can handle.
quarterback:
--- Quote from: Hiub1 on May 05, 2006, 03:49:27 pm ---Ok. I can give you a hand with Powerstrip. I don't think that you are running the right resolutions.
--- End quote ---
Since I referred to it, but didn't reply specifically, I'll say that I'm still out of luck.
I'm having the same issues I've had before. None of the user resolutions will 'take'. They all have me reboot, reboot, reboot, reboot...
All except for the 640x480. That one and the "640x480i (arcade)" that is listed under the 'custom resolutions' will both 'work', in the sense that powerstrip will let me choose them. However, they produce a signal that my arcade monitor doesn't like. It's gets all squiggly crazy, similar to when it's being sent a PC monitor compatible signal.
And, not that I'm sure it would matter, but the ultimarc quickres app won't run on win98. Oh, and my video "card" is a built in "ATI Rage IIC".
I guess what I need to figure out is what EXACTLY is the signal that Vantage and MAME v.36 are putting out. Because those two will work with my monitor, but nothing else seems to.
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