mythtv

[SirPoonga]

Anyone here use http://www.mythtv.com?

I am going to try that (once I get a computer).  I just tried installing linux on my dual celeron system, the hd has some bas sectors and it isn't installing correctly.  I figured dual 550s will work fine (well, 366 if I don't want to hear all the cooling equipment running).  Would be enough to at least record tv, wouldn't be able to do live tv I think.

Anyway, anyone use it?  What do you think?  It has a simple FE to mame in it:)

[1Spoon]

Nice looking piece of software.
Perhaps I

[Mike]

Just a couple of heads up. First if you have problems with playback such as no picture on a tv. You may have to make the image fullscreen if it isn't already. Second, I didn't look at that software your looking to use very good. But you need to know every short cut to start and stop recording because your mouse will be useless. And with a Celeron running at 550 don't expect to be able to record better than MPEG1. You really need at least a 1ghz celeron to be able to record in mpeg2.

[SirPoonga]

again, I said dual celerons ar 550.  Yeah, I read the docs.  I;m thinking I could pull it off with duals, one proc dedicated to encoding and one to decoding.

[Mike]

Even with dual processors I couldn't do it in windows. And I had pvr software that supposedly supported dual processors. It's been a while since I did it so I can't remember what software I used. I had almost an identical setup as you when I did it. I used an Abit bp6 motherboard and a pair of celeron 366 overclocked to 550, I also used a radeon 7500 which has a built in mpeg2 decoder in it and I had 384mb of ram in the system. One thing I didn't have was an ultra ata 100 drive and controller. Also if your looking for a remote and don't know how to program a pic, you can pick up a realmagic remote for cheaper than most and there is all kinds of software out there to make it work.

[Howard_Casto]

I can tell you by experience (it was part of my job at one point)  that video ripping from a live source via a capture card takes a TON of resources regardless of the os.  Mpeg1 is about all you are going to get without significant frame loss as dual processors are not effective in video capture.  You see it's so timing critical that the bridge between the processors is enough lost time to lose frames.  

Now if you capture to raw avi and then encode after the fact then it will do, but that would take a huge harddrive to record anything lengthy.  

This program is great though.  I only have two problems with it....

#1 It's linux (bah)  
#2 The major pvr function it's missing is a remote control.    I mean without a remote then it's just a pc isn't it?  


I think this would actually be marketable if a linux distro setup was built around it.  Very high grade, menu wise.  

[SirPoonga]

No, there you are wrong, you have to supply the remote, but it DEPENDS on a remote for navigation.
Plus it's free open source software, can't complain too much about it:)  There is even RPMs now so you don;t have to go through the issues of manually installing it.

I think this would actually be marketable if a linux distro setup was built around it.  Very high grade, menu wise.  

The look is recent too, this was a very little known software a year ago.

I've been reading the mailing list archives.  people with 800Mhz were able to just record, not do live.  It appears the encoding soiftware is smp.  

Anyway, the dual celerons is all I have right now to play with since I am unemployed..  I just don't have an HD though.

[Jakobud]

Wow.  Looks very cool.  I just order a ATI All In Wonder 9700 Pro so I am interested to see how well that software works.  I am definately not a linux pro though, so I am a bit hesitant.  But it looks very cool.

What other PVR programs are out there for Windows?

Also, while we are on this subject, see in my house, we have digital cable tv, with the reciever box and stuff.  Anyways, I have my main computer up in another room where there is a cable outlet in the wall.  I am planning on hooking up cable into my AIW9700 Pro card.  But then I believe I will only get the basic cable package since I'm not using the digital cable box.  Is there software that I can use that will give me access to all the hundreds of channels I can already get on my tv?  

[SirPoonga]

Wow.  Looks very cool.  I just order a ATI All In Wonder 9700 Pro so I am interested to see how well that software works.  I am definately not a linux pro though, so I am a bit hesitant.  But it looks very cool.

What other PVR programs are out there for Windows?

Also, while we are on this subject, see in my house, we have digital cable tv, with the reciever box and stuff.  Anyways, I have my main computer up in another room where there is a cable outlet in the wall.  I am planning on hooking up cable into my AIW9700 Pro card.  But then I believe I will only get the basic cable package since I'm not using the digital cable box.  Is there software that I can use that will give me access to all the hundreds of channels I can already get on my tv?  

There isn't much for freeware or shareware pvr software for windows.  TechTV did an article, they only listed commercial software.  I did a search and there wasn't much.

I have to look it up but it won't be to hard to hard even for a newbie to get pvr in linux.  There is a version of linux out there (I have to try and remember) that has video4linux already compiled into the kernel so you don;t need to do that.  Then I hear there are myth RPM packages which is like an installation packages that does all the work for you.  Then just some configuration for your hardware is probably all that is needed.  However, it still is a big project and very intimidating to someone who doesn't use linux regularly.

Also, I hear the windows software, even ATI's, are hard to use.

You will not be able to get digitalcable unless you hook up the cable box to the pvr.  That limits you to only recording whatever channel the cable box is set too.  MythTV is suppose to be able to support IR transmitters so you could teach MythTV to change the channel.  Otherwise just pluggin into wall will get you only basic cable.

Note, a Tivo is actually better in this aspect.  The cable company has worked with Tivo.  Tivo can record digital channels and more than one at the same time.  MythTV is only limited the number of tv cards it has for multiple channels.
Did you know it is only $250 for a life time subscription to Tivo?  Or it is $10 per month too.  I'd love a Tivo.  

But I am currently unemployed and this is a fun project.  And all I want right now is a digital VCR, I don't need the tv live features.  It would be nice to record more than one station at once but oh well, can't complain for free software.

[Howard_Casto]

I think tivo is a ripoff due to the fact that it's future is uncertain.  Besides do you pay somebody when you record shows on your vcr?   Hell no!  This whole subscribe to a local device that would already work without a connection is insaine.  Now if it made the recording of shows "legal" then it might be worth it, but television and movie companys are fighting pvrs every step of the way.  So what exactly are you paying for when you give them that subscription fee?

But I have a question.... are there any video cards that support digital input yet?  I think most digital cable boxes have digital out, but what you would use it for is uncertain.  It seems that a lot of devices support digital out, but few of them have digital in. What's the point then??

[SirPoonga]

I think tivo is a ripoff due to the fact that it's future is uncertain.  Besides do you pay somebody when you record shows on your vcr?   Hell no!  This whole subscribe to a local device that would already work without a connection is insaine.  Now if it made the recording of shows "legal" then it might be worth it, but television and movie companys are fighting pvrs every step of the way.  So what exactly are you paying for when you give them that subscription fee?

Let's see, you pay memorex, sony, whatever for the purchase of vcr cassettes to record shows on your vcr.  So yes, you do pay someone to record shows on your vcr.
Plus it is legal.  Hence vcr would be illegal.  You can have a copy of a show for yourself.
And you are paying for what a vcr can't do, scheduling with the cable system (not some external source like mythtv using xmltv) and the ability to record more than one show at a time.  You have to think of it as an estra to your cable service because tivo is more integrated witht he cable service than anything you could make.  You pay extra for other cable services like getting skinamax.

Plus the Tivo box is very hackable.  lots of cool things you can do to it.

Plus it is more economical then building your own pvr.  If I wanted to build my linux box correctly do handle everything mythtv can do it will cost me more than the tivo box and the life time subscription combined.

[Howard_Casto]

Sirp sorry to disagree but both the vcr and the pvr are totally and completely illegal.  You see according to the napster case there is no such thing as a "free use copy" anymore and anything recorded without consent is illegal.  Tivo is very quick to say that it's legal, but he fact of the matter is the movie industry and the cable industry (both of which boardcast their media over the tv)  disapprove and are fighting the tivo system and other pvrs.  If it isn't a complete approval by all parties involved then it isn't legal.  

Also your cassette tape analogy is silly.  I expect to pay for the harddrive inside the pvr so that should be enough.  You aren't paying to record the show anyway, your paying for a cassette tape.  

There is also little to no integration with the cable service other than the local listings, which you can get for free on the internet.  

Again, as I said, it's a rip-off.  Tivo boxes (the good ones) are generally around 100-200 bucks and a subscription is around 250.  If your telling me you can't make a pc with recording capabilities for 450 bucks then you aren't trying hard enough.  

[SirPoonga]

Sirp sorry to disagree but both the vcr and the pvr are totally and completely illegal.  You see according to the napster case there is no such thing as a "free use copy" anymore and anything recorded without consent is illegal.  Tivo is very quick to say that it's legal, but he fact of the matter is the movie industry and the cable industry (both of which boardcast their media over the tv)  disapprove and are fighting the tivo system and other pvrs.  If it isn't a complete approval by all parties involved then it isn't legal.  

No, napster is different, it's spreading copies of stuff.  A vcr is not a p2p software.

Also your cassette tape analogy is silly.  I expect to pay for the harddrive inside the pvr so that should be enough.  You aren't paying to record the show anyway, your paying for a cassette tape.  

Um, no.  You pay for the tivo box just like you pay for a vcr.  You pay for the tapes every so often which is about as much as paying for the service.  You like mixing stuff to show your point which doesn't exist.  You are talking about buying a hd, that's in building your own, I am talking about buying the tivo.  different story, different species of apples.

There is also little to no integration with the cable service other than the local listings, which you can get for free on the internet.  

Yeah there is.  The tivo gets the shows directly from the cable system.  Which is more accurate than online tv listings.
I think it is funny you say cable companies are against it and not integrated with it when at 2:00am on channel 55 everynight there is a little tivo thing for the tivo service going on.

Again, as I said, it's a rip-off.  Tivo boxes (the good ones) are generally around 100-200 bucks and a subscription is around 250.  If your telling me you can't make a pc with recording capabilities for 450 bucks then you aren't trying hard enough.  

Oh you can build one, but not with quality parts.  Like a tv tuner with HARDWARE encoding and decoding.  Then to have multiple tv cards to be able to record mroe than one show at once.  That isa  little pricey.  Then there is all the HD space needed.
Yeah, if I get a normal tv tuner sure.  Doing the college medium quality I will settle for it route yeah. If oyu want to do it right to have high quality you could maybe spend 450, but probably more.

[SirPoonga]

Sirp sorry to disagree but both the vcr and the pvr are totally and completely illegal.  You see according to the napster case there is no such thing as a "free use copy" anymore and anything recorded without consent is illegal.  Tivo is very quick to say that it's legal, but he fact of the matter is the movie industry and the cable industry (both of which boardcast their media over the tv)  disapprove and are fighting the tivo system and other pvrs.  If it isn't a complete approval by all parties involved then it isn't legal.  

No, napster is different, it's spreading copies of stuff.  A vcr is not a p2p software.   You can compare a vcr to lame or some other mp3 encoder.  Napster is to mp3s as the post office is to vhs.  A way of distributing it.

Also your cassette tape analogy is silly.  I expect to pay for the harddrive inside the pvr so that should be enough.  You aren't paying to record the show anyway, your paying for a cassette tape.  

Um, no.  You pay for the tivo box just like you pay for a vcr.  You pay for the tapes every so often which is about as much as paying for the service.  You like mixing stuff to show your point which doesn't exist.  You are talking about buying a hd, that's in building your own, I am talking about buying the tivo.  different story, different species of apples.  The harddrive comes with the tivo so you aren't buying anything extra so your rebute is silly.

There is also little to no integration with the cable service other than the local listings, which you can get for free on the internet.  

Yeah there is.  The tivo gets the shows directly from the cable system.  Which is more accurate than online tv listings.
I think it is funny you say cable companies are against it and not integrated with it when at 2:00am on channel 55 everynight there is a little tivo thing for the tivo service going on.

Again, as I said, it's a rip-off.  Tivo boxes (the good ones) are generally around 100-200 bucks and a subscription is around 250.  If your telling me you can't make a pc with recording capabilities for 450 bucks then you aren't trying hard enough.  

Oh you can build one, but not with quality parts.  Like a tv tuner with HARDWARE encoding and decoding.  Then to have multiple tv cards to be able to record mroe than one show at once.  That isa  little pricey.  Then there is all the HD space needed.
Yeah, if I get a normal tv tuner sure.  Doing the college medium quality I will settle for it route yeah. If oyu want to do it right to have high quality you could maybe spend 450, but probably more.


My original point was it is fun to build your own pvr, but for the same price or less you can have a Tivo with more features.  Being that the case, you can't say it is a rip off.

[Lilwolf]

I shouldn't mention this at all... mainly because I've been watching for them on ebay recently.... so DONT bid on one if you want one... not until after I get one : )

But Creative labs digital VCR gets VERY high marks.  It has TiVo type recording (where you say record all MASH episodes... and it does it no matter what channel it's on).  And you have to pay for that service.

But you can also record it yourself if you want... Also has pausing live shows, recording with hardware decoding, remote control (that I'm hoping will allow it to pull up the application... don't know yet).  And a ton of other features.

It goes for around 80 bucks on ebay right now and they are out of production.  But I've only heard good things about them.

I had a few requirements for mine.
1) had to be easy enough my wife could use it
2) had to be free monthly
3) had to be great quality

creative seems to have them all covered

[SirPoonga]

But Creative labs digital VCR gets VERY high marks.  It has TiVo type recording (where you say record all MASH episodes... and it does it no matter what channel it's on).  And you have to pay for that service.

Do you mean pay for the creative service?  If not mythtv can do that.  but for $80:)

OHHHH, the Video Blaster is a tv tuner with hardware dcoding, sweet.  wonder if myth tv works with it.

[SirPoonga]

Add on note, there are digital tv tuner cards, a few of the wintv brand.

[Howard_Casto]

I shouldn't mention this at all... mainly because I've been watching for them on ebay recently.... so DONT bid on one if you want one... not until after I get one : )

But Creative labs digital VCR gets VERY high marks.  It has TiVo type recording (where you say record all MASH episodes... and it does it no matter what channel it's on).  And you have to pay for that service.

But you can also record it yourself if you want... Also has pausing live shows, recording with hardware decoding, remote control (that I'm hoping will allow it to pull up the application... don't know yet).  And a ton of other features.

It goes for around 80 bucks on ebay right now and they are out of production.  But I've only heard good things about them.

I had a few requirements for mine.
1) had to be easy enough my wife could use it
2) had to be free monthly
3) had to be great quality

creative seems to have them all covered

See that's a real product, because you don't pay to record a show (which is retarded).  

I find the "record all mash episodes" feature lame.  Afterall, the same episode of mash is repeated 5 times a day on three different channels and all I want to see is the one where klinger is in a wedding dress.  Why would I want to record ALL mashes as there's no possible way I would have time to watch them all.  After all isn't the whole point of tivo to have a digital vcr for when you don't hae time to catch a program? If you record more than like 5 shows a week you'll never have time to watch them.  So if you think about it practically speaking you have to know what you want to watch ahead of time anyway.  Having a list of pre-recorded shows to choose from isn't such a big whoop once you find out that you have to watch them first to see if you like it.  


Again tivo is a ripoff, buy something else.  

[SirPoonga]

See that's a real product, because you don't pay to record a show (which is retarded).  

I find the "record all mash episodes" feature lame.  Afterall, the same episode of mash is repeated 5 times a day on three different channels and all I want to see is the one where klinger is in a wedding dress.  Why would I want to record ALL mashes as there's no possible way I would have time to watch them all.  After all isn't the whole point of tivo to have a digital vcr for when you don't hae time to catch a program? If you record more than like 5 shows a week you'll never have time to watch them.  So if you think about it practically speaking you have to know what you want to watch ahead of time anyway.  Having a list of pre-recorded shows to choose from isn't such a big whoop once you find out that you have to watch them first to see if you like it.  


Again tivo is a ripoff, buy something else.  

Hehe, it is a nice feature for not so popular shows though.  MASH is such a convinient example for your side of the story.  Wouldn't need ANYTHING for that, just turn on the TV, same with giligans island.

But what that type of feature is good for is this.  Cartoon network comes to mind.  They change their schedule constantly.  Same with DIY network.  The R/C vehicle show on DIY doesn't have a fixed schedule.  It would be nice to follow that.  Yeah, recording all possible episodes of most tv shows doesn't make sense, but it isn't hard for them to add that feature when they can do show tracking and there are a few instances where that is useful.  HC, you should go into politics.  You find the one example the shows your point to the extreme and don't think abouthe others:)  MASH is way too easy of an example.  Suprised you didn't mention gilligans island or trading spaces.  Of course that feature doesn't make sense for shows that are on constantly!

Plus you still pay for recording a show, even on a vcr:)  You have to by the tapes.  granted vhs is cheaper now, but when it first came out...

Anyway, this little debate is off topic for this thread.
I guess my answer to my first quesiton is no one here used mythtv:)
My friend just got it up and going.  He's happy, now he doesn;t get yelled at for missing taping a show for his girlfriend:)  BTW HC, there is another reason to record all possible shows, you won't miss anything for you significant other, hehe.  Which reminds me the one thing you can do with Tivo that you can't do witha  vcr or pc (unless you buy an expensive digital tv tuner) is record a digital channel and watch another channel.  being able to do that fixes issues of over lapping shows if you have a roommate that likes one show and you like another and alternate each week like I do.

PS.  woohoo, forgot I was on Time Warner, built in PVR for $10 per month, no hardware to buy:)  Even cheaper yet:)  But not as fun as building your own.  But that makes more sense since as it is an added service to cable like premium package is an added service.  Hmmm, yep HC, cable companies don't like PVRs, especially when they have their own integrated into their service:)

[Halen]

Hehe, it is a nice feature for not so popular shows though.  MASH is such a convinient example for your side of the story.  Wouldn't need ANYTHING for that, just turn on the TV, same with giligans island.

But what that type of feature is good for is this.  Cartoon network comes to mind.  They change their schedule constantly.  Same with DIY network.  The R/C vehicle show on DIY doesn't have a fixed schedule.  It would be nice to follow that.  Yeah, recording all possible episodes of most tv shows doesn't make sense, but it isn't hard for them to add that feature when they can do show tracking and there are a few instances where that is useful.  HC, you should go into politics.  You find the one example the shows your point to the extreme and don't think abouthe others:)  MASH is way too easy of an example.  Suprised you didn't mention gilligans island or trading spaces.  Of course that feature doesn't make sense for shows that are on constantly!

Plus you still pay for recording a show, even on a vcr:)  You have to by the tapes.  granted vhs is cheaper now, but when it first came out...

Anyway, this little debate is off topic for this thread.
I guess my answer to my first quesiton is no one here used mythtv:)
My friend just got it up and going.  He's happy, now he doesn;t get yelled at for missing taping a show for his girlfriend:)  BTW HC, there is another reason to record all possible shows, you won't miss anything for you significant other, hehe.  Which reminds me the one thing you can do with Tivo that you can't do witha  vcr or pc (unless you buy an expensive digital tv tuner) is record a digital channel and watch another channel.  being able to do that fixes issues of over lapping shows if you have a roommate that likes one show and you like another and alternate each week like I do.

PS.  woohoo, forgot I was on Time Warner, built in PVR for $10 per month, no hardware to buy:)  Even cheaper yet:)  But not as fun as building your own.  But that makes more sense since as it is an added service to cable like premium package is an added service.  Hmmm, yep HC, cable companies don't like PVRs, especially when they have their own integrated into their service:)

What kind of hardware did you're friend use?  I think I may build myself one of these.

Thanks!

[SirPoonga]

What kind of hardware did you're friend use?  I think I may build myself one of these.

Thanks!

Just a computer he had laying around for now.  An AMD 1.4Ghz, don't remember what TV tuner, and a raseon VE with TV out.

You could just get a raseon AIW TV wonder.  Or a winTV.  Like I said, WinTV makes digital tuner cars (a bit more expensive then a normal card) but I assume then it can record digital stations on it's own with out you having to set the cable box.  BTW, to add from before, this is what make Tivo cheaper, a digital tuner card with hardware encoding is about $200.  That;s the price of a tivo hardware right there.

[Howard_Casto]

PS.  woohoo, forgot I was on Time Warner, built in PVR for $10 per month, no hardware to buy:)  Even cheaper yet:)  But not as fun as building your own.  But that makes more sense since as it is an added service to cable like premium package is an added service.  Hmmm, yep HC, cable companies don't like PVRs, especially when they have their own integrated into their service:)

Cable companys have no problem with them, but tv networks on said cable companys, syndicated television shows and producers of movies shown on hbo, the movie channel ect... sure as hell do.  

Cable company's get your money anyway, so they don't care who your ripping off as they have to pay a flat rate to offer a channel anyway.  It's individual programs and networks, who are only giving the cable company's the right to broadcast the shows that have the problem.  

But some cable company's are having issues as their packages are getting revoked by these angry parties.  Other's fly under the radar.  

[SirPoonga]

Ahhh, that makes sense.  They wouldn't like vcrs either.

[Lilwolf]

btw, one of the nice features of the creativelab solution (and why I want it) is that it saves files in formats that are compatible with SVCD (the dvd format that saves on a cdr)

So I can save my kids favorite shows and later they can watch them on the dvd player.

[Elkor]

Let me know how you make out sirp...

I, myself, own a replay.  (as howard sighs    )
personally, I'm quite happy with it and as I had a total cost of $450 I don't consider it a rip
(you have to really consider lifetime activation as part of the inital cost, cuz it is)

as the last time I bought a vcr it was $400 (Hey, Im a geek), this cost seems way reasonable to me considering all the added functionality and the ability to offload .mpgs to my PC  

I also looked at doing it in linux, but in the end $450 for a tunkey was too good to pass up (plus, the wife can use it)

And (for howard) you have to use one to really understand it.  I record WAY more tv then I will watch.  In fact, I record anything that I may even THINK might be interesting.  That way, when I do sit down to watch TV, I know I will always have something that I want to see (i.e.  I always record stargate, nova, and southpark  I keep about 5 eps of each around that way there is always something handy)
Oh, and while I don't know how the tivo handles this, the replay won't record an episode of MASH if it has one with the same description on the HD already (even if set to record all episodes) so you don't have to worry about that..  now as for klinger in a dress ........



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windows - bah!