Owens Corning finished basement methods

[ChadTower]

Anyone have any experience or been in a basement finished with this?

[ChadTower]

Found this review.  I'm never sure if these are real or just clever marketing.

[ClubNinja]

Interesting, but a little pricey.  Actually, my curiousity is if you can install the stuff yourself.  I have no issues with the work involved with traditional finishing, but the mess (especially the dust) definitely sucks.  Just patching the remains of an ex-wall in the bathroom has left me with a thin white coat over the entire room.

[ErikRuud]

I don't like the look of the vertical seams.

The left a pamphet for this service at our house when we were only about two weeks from completing our basement.  I could hardly beleive they bothered to drop it off because our contracter has his sign in the front yard that said he was doing the basement.

[ChadTower]

Interesting, but a little pricey.  Actually, my curiousity is if you can install the stuff yourself.  I have no issues with the work involved with traditional finishing, but the mess (especially the dust) definitely sucks.  Just patching the remains of an ex-wall in the bathroom has left me with a thin white coat over the entire room.

Yeah, does seem pricey.  The website, if you dive deep into it, says they do not sell.  They only send installers over to do it for you.  Seems the service is much of the deal.  If you read the review it also seems that they try to rip you off as much as possible in cost, so while nice, I'll have to find another DIY way.

[PrizLucky]

I had looked into that Cornings basement system very breifly a while back (I have a relatively new house and I'd like to finish the basement) and didn't have a lot of luck finding good "reviews" that review you posted seemed to be a good, fair review...

My impressions were that if your basement is prone to getting wet.. then this is really probably worth it.. but if you're confident that your basement is dry and will not get wet easily/frequently then it seems like you're paying a premium for a less-attractive, less-flexible system.. 

[ChadTower]

...that can supposedly be done in two weeks.  THAT is what you're paying for...

[xar256]

In all fairness...(And I'm going from what I saw on the website) You can just as easilly buy wood paneling and put it up in under 2 weeks for much less cost than that stuff.  The white stuff they sell nowadays probably wouldn't look too far different from the Owens Corning stuff.

Just my 2 cents
Xar256

[menace]

The review did seem fairly unbiased but i guess with the net you never know.  Our new house is just about done and I've started thinking about the basementarcade (yes it is one word  ) this looked interesting but the lack of DIY turns me away--if they sold you the materials and said here ya go--no warranty--i'd still be fine with that.  ah well drywall it is i guess...

[ChadTower]

In all fairness...(And I'm going from what I saw on the website) You can just as easilly buy wood paneling and put it up in under 2 weeks for much less cost than that stuff.  The white stuff they sell nowadays probably wouldn't look too far different from the Owens Corning stuff.

Wood paneling is not insulated nor does it include wiring for new circuits...

[DrewKaree]

Found this review.  I'm never sure if these are real or just clever marketing.

I'll tell you what.  The first few items of that "review" jump out at me as total ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.  There is NO WAY, NONE, that installing drywall takes "months".  At the most, a half-assed semi-competent boob would take a week or two AT THE MOST to drywall even a LARGE basement (think double the size of yours).

Secondly, drywall dust WILL NOT be in your house for "months" if you have someone with half a brain.  "Years" is a stretch beyond belief.  Water damage to your basement drywall means you have problems that should have been addressed before studs were even put up in your basement. 

If you're finishing your basement, odds are you are going to be finishing areas that are going to be used as living areas.  The drywall isn't going to be damaged any more than any other drywall in your house.  Seriously, the guy makes it seem like people throw up drywall just to "pretty up the place" but you'll still throw bikes, lawnmowers, garden equipment, etc down there, and just casually throw them against the wall if you ARE going to do that.

The guy's numbers don't add up either.  He stated drywall was $17/ft - $20/ft and the stuff he's commenting on ran $25/ft - $35/ft   and later on, referred to spending a third again as much.  $35/ft would DOUBLE the cost of what he said they paid for drywall, in addition to, in his own words, being just for what should be considered a "basic" finishing job (walls, ceiling joists, and some electrical).  Read too, that "They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take." 

In his words, he speaks of people paying "a third again as much".  That'd mean for what he paid for drywall, it would equate to $23/ft and he stated he STILL paid $5/ft more than THAT.  For the size he claimed his basement to be, that equals out to $500+ more than his third again as much claim.

For someone who stated one of the problems was a high-pressure sales guy with very little specifics, he certainly didn't give you any ADDITIONAL "specifics" other than to KIND OF narrow down the price range you MIGHT be looking at.

I see large problems with that site, wild exaggerations, and a failure to run his own math, seeing as how he claims to be "people who can afford to pay a premium", someone who's not a fool or a "bullible yokel", and is "financially savvy".  IMO, it REEKS of an ad or a planted website for revenue-generation.

[DrewKaree]

Sorry to REALLY disagree with the rest of you guys, it's just that I DO this stuff, and I'm not even a full-time guy at it, and all his numbers don't seem to add up, nor does he really "review" anything other than vaguely go over numbers that a "financially savvy" person should have no problems laying out, or heck, even going back and editing "his" web page.

I just don't see the same review you guys saw, don't take it as me slamming you guys, please?

[BackAgain]

I've been in a few basements where this has been done, and I've seen a job in progress.  Their stuff is pretty good, but way too expensive.

As far as the "review" I just read, I have to agree completely with Drew.  Who wrote that crap?  Any contractor can take that article apart without even trying.  Do they think you won't do any comparison shopping?  It really is too bad, it looks like they have come up with a pretty good product but are just too greedy.  Why not make it available at all the local home centers?  I know Owens Corning is still restructuring after being in chapter 11 for years, but come on.  If you have a good product, SELL IT!

[PrizLucky]

I just don't see the same review you guys saw, don't take it as me slamming you guys, please?

nahh that's cool..!  I always try to be a bit leary of reading things online.. and it's certainly possible that this was planted in some fashion... but I don't think it would've been planted by Owens.  And while it could be a planted traffic generating piece for that website, it didn't reek of that to me, and just because his math doesn't totally add up didn't flag it as being wierd to me..   I've seen a lot of traffic-generating junk reviews out on the net, this one just didn't seem too out of the ordinary to me..  (though I didn't look at all at anything else on that site, so .. who knows). 
I took it more as a review from a guy who is generally happy with his new basement, but who in his heart knows it's not the best, but he's trying to justify to himself that he "made out" all right..

[ChadTower]

IMO, it REEKS of an ad or a planted website for revenue-generation.

I got that out of it too, which is why I posted a link here.  It is way too vague to be talking about how specific it is.  Either way, you guys all say this is exceedingly easy to do, and I know my own propensity for overestimating difficulty of things I don't know much about... so it looks like I do this basement myself.

[ClubNinja]

so it looks like I do this basement myself.

Good call. 

I'll be starting my second side in the coming weeks.  Contact for Protips.

[ChadTower]

Hell, I could use AnyTips.  I know how to seal the concrete.  Anything in terms of framing or drywall, at this point, I can only guess at.

[ErikRuud]

It depends on exatcly what kinds of issues you have.  Do Dampness, Leaking at the Floor/Wall joint, or cracks in the foundation?

A sort of general dampness can probably be handled by using Dri-Lock.

The best way is sealing the walls from the outside, but that requires professionals.

Worst case would be having to add or fix your drain tile system which requires digging and or cutting through the existing floor.

I had some cracks that would leak in heavy rains.  Several years before we did the basement, I patched the cracks using an expoxy injection system.  In theory the cracks are now stonger than the rest of the wall.  You can have this done professionally, my sister just had it done in her house, but she paid ten times as much as I did when I bought the stuff at Menard's and did it myself.

[ChadTower]

There are only two very fixable water issues, and only when it rains very heavily.  Water comes in via the bulkhead (replace old rusty bulkhead, enhance gutter spout drainage in that corner of the house), and when it rains BADLY we get water from the base of the chimney (put a chimney cap on).  Other than that, a dehumidifier keeps it nice and dry down there.  Once I clear room I'm going to DryLock the floor and walls as the first step. 

There are no visible cracks of any sort and no signs of water or even moisture coming through the walls.

[CCM]

Definitely make sure all of your water issues are COMPLETELY taken care of before any finishing is done.  Wait for  a few very hard rains before you are comfortable.  The last thing you want to be doing is ripping down drywall and/or framing due to lingering water issues. 

I had to have an interior french drain put in my basement (talk about a mess, and a large expense!), and it took quite a few heavy rains with no water in my basement before I was comfortable enough to have it finished.

Framing and hanging drywall isn't very difficult, just time consuming.  I've completely gutted and remodeled a bathroom in my house, built a nice size deck, and some other minor projects, so I am pretty sure I could have done my basement myself,  I just don't have the time these days for a project of that magnitude, so I opted to have a contractor do it.

I actually used www.servicemagic.com to find contractors in my area.  I ended up taking the lowest bid of the 3 I had.  I had the basement entirely re-wired, added cable lines, phone lines, and cat5e.  They did a great job on the framing, but the drywall finishing was a little shaky.  The finishing is the hardest part by far, and I know I could not have done a better job myself.  I did have them come back and fix up a few spots, but after a coat of paint with a faux finish, the imperfections aren't very noticable.

I guess the bottom line is that if you are relatively handy and have some time, you could definitely do it yourself, but I would highly recommend having a professional come in to do your mudding and taping.

[ChadTower]

This fall we had more rain than we'd had in 50 years... and we only had that minimal amount of water come in, I mean a small coating on 10 feet of floor, from the bulkhead and the chimney.  If THAT amount of rain is what it took, it could be another 50 years before we have to do it again.

[CCM]

Well then it sounds like you should be good to go once you fix the few problems you have.

[markrvp]

When framing the walls, studs are 16" apart center-to-center.

[DrewKaree]

When framing the walls, studs are 16" apart center-to-center.

Make yourself a "jig" to speed things up.  Figure out how far apart the inner faces need to be apart from each other to hit your 16" spacing, cut 2 pieces that long, and slap 'em in there agains the piece you already have fastened, and throw the piece you wish to fasten next up against 'em.  Faster, easier, and you won't need to be wasting as much time measuring.

[mccoy178]

Also, I if your basement walls have any sort of bow in them, I would move the framed wall out a little.  For example, I have finished two older homes that had some bow in them, and to fix that, I mounted the header board about four and 1/2 inches out from the wall and the footer the same.  That gave me an inch of play at the top and the bottom, and took in consideration the bow in the middle.  Just some food for thought.  There's nothing suckier than securing your header and footer and realizing that your studs can't humanly be level at the current position unless they stick off the edges a bit.

[ChadTower]

How would I measure for Bow?  This is a shot of my foundation, for reference.

[mccoy178]

Someone else would probably have a better idea, but I would use either a plumb or a four foot level.  Almost always there is some bow in older homes.  For the method I use, I attach the header to the floor joists above and toe the footer into the floor with the blue concrete screws.  A plumb is a big plus and snapping string lines on the floor to help.  I use a DeWalt laser level and metal studs, so life is easier now.  No second guessing that thing.

[CCM]

You should get a book on basement finishing.  Check Amazon, Home Depot, or maybe even your local library.  I've bought a few books for projects I've done and they have helped immensely.

[ChadTower]

Oh, yes, definitely will get a book.  It's in the plan, probably 2-3 books.

[mpm32]

You shouldn't mount the studs right against the walls anyway.  Leave a 1" airspace back there and make sure your insullation does not touch the walls.  This leaves space to run your wires.  Studs and insullation that touch the walls will act as wicks and draw moisture out of the concrete.  Your bottom plate should be pressure treated lumber with a layer of tarpaper between the plate and the floor.  This will help with the moisure from the floor.  Do not let the drywall touch the floor.  Keep it off the floor by at least 3/4".  Use this on your floor;  http://www.dricore.com/en/ewhat.htm  I finished my basement right before I saw these and wanted to rip up the floor and install these.  I still may sometime in the near future.  If you use this, you can put your framing right on top of this instead of the pressure treated/tarpaper thing.

[ChadTower]

I've seen those things at Home Depot... seems awfully expensive.  Is it worth it?

[mpm32]

I think it's totally worth it.  It make the floor much warmer and any moisture that might be on the floor won't ruin your floor covering.  You can even put down carpeting without any worry.  I think it's like $5-$6 a panel.  A panel covers 4 sq ft so that's around $.80 - $1.50 a sq'.  That's not expensive at all.

[ChadTower]

My whole basement is around 775 sqft... and I'm finishing probably 2/3 of it at this point... we're looking around $700-1000.  I'll consider it.

[DrewKaree]

You shouldn't mount the studs right against the walls anyway.  Leave a 1" airspace back there and make sure your insullation does not touch the walls.  This leaves space to run your wires.  Studs and insullation that touch the walls will act as wicks and draw moisture out of the concrete.  Your bottom plate should be pressure treated lumber with a layer of tarpaper between the plate and the floor.  This will help with the moisure from the floor.  Do not let the drywall touch the floor.  Keep it off the floor by at least 3/4".  Use this on your floor;  http://www.dricore.com/en/ewhat.htm  I finished my basement right before I saw these and wanted to rip up the floor and install these.  I still may sometime in the near future.  If you use this, you can put your framing right on top of this instead of the pressure treated/tarpaper thing.

Are you suggesting to him that he run his electrical lines BEHIND the studs?  That's not right at all.  You drill holes, as big a pain in the ass as it is, because if that wall ever moves, you could end up starting a fire if those studs rub the insulation off due to movement.  The chances are slim, but you just don't do that.

Skip the fluffy-type insulation.  It's a pain in the ass to deal with, and you already have the thermal mass of your wall.  You can use the thick pink styrene-type sheets and cut it with a utility knife to fit right inside each one, then you won't have to worry about the cut-cut-stapleing and getting hand cramps from stapling all that crap in place or the itch that won't go away from fiberglass insulation. 

There's much more than just that, such as vapor barriers and whatnot that you'll see in any book you pick up.  Your studs SHOULDN'T go straight against the wall, but you'll read about the vapor barrier and what thickniess you should throw up, and you can stick your studs right against the wall.

It looks as if you have poured walls, btw.  If you can rustle up a tape measure, find out what it measures from the floor to the bottom of the floor joists.  I haven't looked at that link for flooring, but it's sounding like the raised 2x2 squares with tongue/groove edges.  Those make flooring nice and easy, but aren't very thermally efficient.  If your basement is reasonably close to the same temps as the upstairs (think 15 degrees or less difference) those are the way to go.  If your basement is near that 15 degree mark, you might want to insulate your floor as well.  I know it WILL take up space, but if you don't do it, you could still end up ALWAYS having to have shoes on or your feet will freeze right off your legs, and isn't the objective to have a "liveable" area? 

Just take a thermometer and note the differences.  If you have a thermometer you can throw flat on the ground, give that a whirl and note the difference between that and the surrounding air temp to see what I'm talking about.

[ChadTower]

These numbers are rough but not that far off since I've kept a loose tabs on it over the last year.

When it is 20 outside it is 50-55 in the basement and 67 upstairs.  The floor is COLD, if I walk on it without shoes when it's 20 outside my feet get very cold.  Note that I am not sensitive to temp issues at all so when I say cold it's not a wussy "oh my toes is cold" thing it's actually cold.  I definitely want to do something to insulate the floor.

[mpm32]

Are you suggesting to him that he run his electrical lines BEHIND the studs?  That's not right at all.  You drill holes, as big a pain in the ass as it is, because if that wall ever moves, you could end up starting a fire if those studs rub the insulation off due to movement.

So what happens in an attic where they run the wires right on top of the ceiling joists?  They move as well.  No problem there, and when inspected, it will pass.  You do not always have to run wires in holes.  Of course you should alway check your local code.  I've been in construction (carpenter) and I've worked installing high-end home theater and whole house audio and it was not always necessary to drill holes for wires.

[ChadTower]

Audio and video wires are low voltage and not subject to electrical codes in the same manner.  You can run those right through the middle of the room and still pass in a lot of areas.

Do that with a 120v line and the inspector will punch you in the plums.

[DrewKaree]

You also don't have a fixed wall BEHIND those ceiling joists like you have a concrete wall behind the stud wall in the basement, and if your attic is finished and you have a floor/subfloor laid down on those joists, then you drill the holes and make the runs between the joists.

The only possibly safe way to run that (and I'd bet it's still against code in a LOT of areas) is if you were running BX, and he'll probably be better off (read: easier to upgrade if at all necessary in the future and perhaps easy enough to deal with that he might do basic runs but no connections) running Romex throughout the basement.

For those looking at that and scratching their head:

BX = the metal shielded stuff (big metal spiral wrapped looking)
Romex = the non-metallic stuff (white rectangular (usually) flexible-ish stuff)

An additional plus if he uses Romex throughout the basement is if for some reason he DOES need some sort of metal sheilding, he can simply run the Romex inside some conduit if need be.

[mpm32]

I stand corrected.  I called my electrician friend and he says it's a no-no as well, although it's ok to run on top of and below joists in certain situations.

I do stand by my construction methods though.   

[mccoy178]

With metal studs, the holes are already there.  BTW, talking about protecting the wire, I don't think it's necessary, actually, I know it's not.  But if you had to, you could use the blue plastic tubing.  Chad, when you're ready, I'll start a thread on finishing the basement, and I'll do detailed step by step on how I did it.