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Bribery for new Mame feature "Shifter Toggle" Help...

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Minwah:

--- Quote from: Silver on January 26, 2006, 07:49:38 am ---The best to expect from mame is for authentic modelling of the original game. Has anyone done this and submitted the fixes? It appears the changes are not huge in this respect (I say this not being much of C programmer).

--- End quote ---

Several people have tried (me included)...they are not interested :(  For example look at Pole Pos...the authentic/accurate version is in the driver but not enabled, basically because the way they have it is easier for keyboard users to play with.

So much for 'MAME is about accuracy'  :P

RobotronNut:
of the 3 software implementations:


--- Quote ---1) Toggle (eg Pole Position) - 1 input
2) Hold input for low, release for high (eg Chase HQ) - 1 input
3) Input for low, input for high (eg Outrun) - 2 inputs

--- End quote ---

i'd prefer #3 for all cases. if you're playing from a keyboard, you have a momentary button press for each shift, with a different button for each gear, which i think is the most natural way to play. if you're using real arcade controls, you can use a return-to-center shifter or a stay-in-place shifter with hardware to make it emulate a return-to-center shifter.

this is simple and uniform for the mame developers, and it avoids having "always-on" keys, which might cause problems with front-ends or O.S. drivers.

originally, i thought mame was already implemented with all games using #3. since this apparently is not the case, i think all games should be changed to use #3.

Minwah:

--- Quote from: RobotronNut on January 26, 2006, 01:03:58 pm ---i'd prefer #3 for all cases. if you're playing from a keyboard, you have a momentary button press for each shift, with a different button for each gear, which i think is the most natural way to play. if you're using real arcade controls, you can use a return-to-center shifter or a stay-in-place shifter with hardware to make it emulate a return-to-center shifter.

--- End quote ---

Yes, that's what I was saying above (reply #17).  Although you do not need to make a locking shifter return to centre as you say - leaving it in position will work fine.  The only potential issue is sending constant keystrokes which shouldn't normally be a problem (in MAME)...I commented further on this above.


--- Quote ---this is simple and uniform for the mame developers, and it avoids having "always-on" keys, which might cause problems with front-ends or O.S. drivers.

--- End quote ---

Agreed, but with a locking shifter this might happen anyway.  I don't think anyone should have to modify their shifters if possible (as someone said, return to centre ones don't feel right for some games).  A simple switch on the ground line would solve this issue anyway.


--- Quote ---originally, i thought mame was already implemented with all games using #3. since this apparently is not the case, i think all games should be changed to use #3.

--- End quote ---

Agreed.

Silver:
I forgot that Polepos had the code in the driver and it just needs a recompile.

So seeing as mamedev appear to want to leave it as is (or are uninterested or whatever) how about the next best thing - lets get all the games to have the code available in  the driver.

This would make it easy for anyone to just edit a line of code per game to switch the control setup. Also having the code for the correct shifter for each game would improve the "documentation" aspect. Of course, the next logical setup would be having code in there for support #3 type that you mentioned above, even if the original game was not. But sounds like mame already is like this for a keyboard point of view?

RobotronNut:

--- Quote from: Minwah on January 27, 2006, 07:47:53 am ---
--- Quote ---this is simple and uniform for the mame developers, and it avoids having "always-on" keys, which might cause problems with front-ends or O.S. drivers.

--- End quote ---
Agreed, but with a locking shifter this might happen anyway.  I don't think anyone should have to modify their shifters if possible (as someone said, return to centre ones don't feel right for some games).  A simple switch on the ground line would solve this issue anyway.

--- End quote ---

the hardware modification i'm suggesting would just be a small circuit board; the locking shifter would not be modified mechanically. it would still feel and play like a locking shifter. the shifter's microswitches would be connected to the circuit board, which would be connected to the keyboard encoder. mame (and the o.s. and front ends) would see momentary keystrokes, rather than always-on keys.

if mame were modified to make all games behave like #3, then all games would play perfectly with real shifters, and as well as possible with just buttons.

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