Any 1 player games hacked for 2 simultaneous players? (Asteroids, Berzerk, DK?)

[Xiaou2]

1)  Its not multiple hits by both players.  Its simply multiple hits to crack one
open... which will help to balance the games difficulty due to the new
number of players.   The original game was NOT designed for 8 bullets
onscreen at once.  Thats a LOT of firepower for that game... and would be
Way too easy.

1a) Imagine how many asteroids would have to be onscreen for a
2p challenge if they were 1 hit each.  And, if the screen and ships size
are the same, how little room for moving around there will be. 

2) Regardless if you had started the thread..  it does not mean that
the game being developed is what will be created.   And as stated,
that wouldnt even work well anyways.. due to game balance being way off.

3) When you add a new player to a single player game, you ARE
making a New game.  People really dont realize how much time is invested
in a games difficulty balance.  We are talking months and months of
fine tuning.   The game should capture the Asteroids feel and gameplay,
but that does not mean it should be exactly the same old hat.
 

[HanoiBoi]

1)  Its not multiple hits by both players.  Its simply multiple hits to crack one
open... which will help to balance the games difficulty due to the new
number of players.   The original game was NOT designed for 8 bullets
onscreen at once.  Thats a LOT of firepower for that game... and would be
Way too easy.

1a) Imagine how many asteroids would have to be onscreen for a
2p challenge if they were 1 hit each.  And, if the screen and ships size
are the same, how little room for moving around there will be. 

2) Regardless if you had started the thread..  it does not mean that
the game being developed is what will be created.   And as stated,
that wouldnt even work well anyways.. due to game balance being way off.

3) When you add a new player to a single player game, you ARE
making a New game.  People really dont realize how much time is invested
in a games difficulty balance.  We are talking months and months of
fine tuning.   The game should capture the Asteroids feel and gameplay,
but that does not mean it should be exactly the same old hat.
 

Xiaou2, I certainly didn't mean to offend you, or Hurray for that matter.  The fact that he's taken an interest in this as a project and the fact that you are also as enthusiastic about it is fantastic!  That being said, I'll reply to your post which appears to be a direct response to my previous...

1) I read and understand your suggestions; multiple hits per player was proposed by Hurray Banana.  While I agree that 8 shots would be a lot of fire power for a one player game, I do think that an argument could be made that 4 shots per player, in a 2 player game, would not.  Two minds thinking differently and targeting different rocks. 

2) Dude, I'm not out here writing game requirements.  I'm simply suggesting/requesting to keep it simple.  What I like about Asteroids is the simplicity of it, especially graphically.  Changing this would not appeal to me. 

Even Asteroids Deluxe fell short IMO.  I didn't like that they changed the flying style, the backdrop, changed hyperspace to shield, even the color.   Space Duel was appealing to me because you could play 2 at a time.  As a one player game, I'll stick to Asteroids.

3) I understand that any change essentially creates a new game.  I think you know what I meant. 

I will admit that I am one of those people who don't realize the months and months of fine tuning to achieve a game's difficulty balance, but I can absolutely understand it.  With that in mind, please assess yourself as you seemed to quickly determine that 8 shots on screen would make the game way too easy.

"The game should capture the Asteroids feel and gameplay, but that does not mean it should be exactly the same old hat."

Epiphany!! This is where we differ.  I actually would like it to be old hat.     Old hat that you can play with a buddy, child, etc.

 

[Xiaou2]

Xiaou2, I certainly didn't mean to offend you

 No prob.  I do not offend easily.  Though, I am kinda stern on my replies.
Its just the level of 'serious' that is me.

8 shots would be a lot of fire power for a one player game, I do think that an argument could be made that 4 shots per player, in a 2 player game, would not.  Two minds thinking differently and targeting different rocks.

 Im not sure you are getting it.   In Asteriods, there are 4 bullets on screen
max at one time.   You can shoot them rapidly all at once to kill a very close
asteroid... or space them apart.

 With 2 players, that amounts to 8 per screen.  Which means, 2 people could sit side by side and take out the entire field in 3 seconds flat.

 If you reduced the bullets to 4 per screen, that would be 2 each...
which wouldnt be enough for a close encounter.

 Hence, a need for more hits per Asteroid. (Change)

Even Asteroids Deluxe fell short IMO.  I didn't like that they changed the flying style, the backdrop, changed hyperspace to shield, even the color.   Space Duel was appealing to me because you could play 2 at a time.  As a one player game, I'll stick to Asteroids.

 I didnt notice a change in the flight style.  Ill have to check again later.
But the 3D backdrop and blue overlay is way cooler looking than the
original.   

 Hyperspace was useless.   It would often just toss you in the path of
an incomming asteroid.  I Hated that... so rarely ever used it.

 However, after some practice, I use Sheilds to great effect in AD very
often.  It works great... and is very satisfying when you pull it off.

 Even better, is the attacking egg squadrons in AD.
They really add a huge level of challenge that keeps you on your toes,
and pumps your adrenalin trying to out-maneuver & blast them while
avoiding everything else. It makes the original feel like a baby's game comparatively.

 Space Duel is OK.  But its too multi-color for my tastes.

 Blasteroids is just blah.   The ships dont control as nice,  they are too
big too.  The gameplay is too easy..  and the energy system just does not
work.  (designed to be a quarter muncher)  I also dont like the graphical
look of it.  Its too cartoonish.

 
 I have no Idea what direction Hurray will go with this... so its not for
me to say.  However,  I do hope he tries my ideas.   I think any Asteroid
fan will quickly warm up to the new features. It has the potential to
become a 'New Classic'.

[Xiaou2]

With that in mind, please assess yourself as you seemed to quickly determine that 8 shots on screen would make the game way too easy.

  Ive been designing things since I was like 6yrs old.  Artistically, mechanically, and more.   I have great spacial perception.  And a great
imagination... with ability for near endless ideas.

 At times, I can see, hear, and even play a 'new' game inside of my mind.
Im also very observant of fine details, as well as a bit of a perfectionist.

 I have extensive experience with games (and attempted limited
basic programming)  from the c64 days, Amiga, and just about every
console up to the PS1.   And the arcades here were huge and constantly
filled with all the latest classics... so Ive played most every classic that
was popular in the 80s... and later to play the rare stuff in mame.
 
 I design games on paper mostly.  Spending hours in deep thought and
in drawing conceptual sketches.   Sadly, I lack the mental brawn for
programming... else one of those designs might have already been
realized...

 Anyways, all this combined, gives me a great ability to know what makes
a game work well, and what does not work well.

 This is not to brag.  Just an explanation on how I can easily see what
you may have a hard time seeing and or understanding.

[Hurray Banana]

I'll put some graphic options in (when I've created the options system)

[Xiaou2]

 Sadly, PS crashed, and I lost a nice color sketch I was working on.  Figured Id
just make a few alterations in B/W  in MS Paint.

 Obviously, all of these things may not be on the same screen at once.  Just
conceptual pics.

 1) Laser Turrets - May be mounted to rocks, or space-bases
 
 2) Crystal Rocks - Redirects energy fired at them. Only Photons destroy. (Avoid)

 3) Electrical Rock - Rocks glow when about to discharge bolt of energy.
 (in color version, these rocks are filled in a blue color to make them apparent)

 4) Alien-Pede - Head to kill. Anywhere else forms more heads. (multiple pedes)

 5) Fractal Sponge - Flexible structure that bends/moves if you ran into it. Can
shoot it apart.

 I will open a new thread for development with more details shortly.

[Xiaou2]

 Additions:

----- Features

 - Full Controller mapping options

 - Force Feedback (Rumble collisions, thrust, etc)

 - Red / Blue 3d option?
    (With adjustable red/blue tone shifter calibrator, to match lens's colors perfectly)

 - Drawn 3d on 2d planes, so could be displayed in Stereo3D with
   3D LCD shutter glasses w/ software conversion.

 - Possible LED output, which could trigger pinball flashers at certain game moments.

 - Holographic Sound  (This is going too far out.. but thats what I do hehe)

 Use of 2mics mounted in a human head dummy.  Playing back the SFX on a
movable speaker, moving them past the head mics from different angles, or
simply placed in various spots and recorded there.

 After hearing some Holographic sound samples on youtube, Ive been drooling
to hear such things in a game / movie.  The realism is unmatched by any
other means.

-----

 Main Control:

 -  Auto-Charge Shields  (OR, Re-filled at Dock every 5 levels)
   Sheilds charge very slowly... so using sheilds like 6 times in a level, and
  it could take 2 levels to completely fill the bank again.
 
 - Photons limited to 1 per every 5 levels. (Where you re-dock)   
   However, if you catch several small crystals, you can make additional photons
   (Limited to a certain stock level)

 - Tractor Beam - Can be used to Pull nearby crystals.  Possible use to latch onto
passing rocks, using it to pull your ship away from danger quickly.
(latch onto other players too)
 
 TB might not work well / be useful .  Must test.
 
-----

 In Game:

 - Explosive Rocks: Explode rather than split several times.
 - Electric Rocks: (listed above)
 - Magna Rocks: Pulls ships strongly & quickly towards rock
 - Radioactive Rocks: Warning tone & Instrument Flash (Too much will destroy ship)
 
 - Jelly-Blob creature: Acts like jelly / liquid.  Can re-form.  Avoid / Photon... or
possibly shoot small enough to drive it away.   Can swallow & crush ships.
 
 - Shooting a mini-crystal (the ones you mine) possibly make small explosion...
but nothing like a refined Photon.


 Bonus Rounds / Secrets / Extras

 - Every  "X"th   Level, you dock to restock energy / fuel.
 - Possible Bonus rounds which test fire accuracy, maneuverability, speed, etc.

 A) Survive massive fast asteroid shower.  Points based on time survived & kills. 
 B) Survive massive alien attack squadron
 C) Shoot several targets with limited ammo.
 D) Pilot ship thru Sprint like race course.
 E) ..... Etc

 - Ratings shown after each round,  comparing 2player scores, accuracy & bonuses
 - Every So many levels, fight some sort of boss creature / craft.
 -   

 === Other Thoughts ===

* Possible Radar unit, tracks incoming threats.  Ships, Energy, & Rocks marked
differently.

* There is the Idea of going extreme... and making it into more of a Sinistar style
game... Where mining is the object of the game... with Sinistar and minions having
to be thwarted.   However, this might be more suited to full 3d, as well as would
take a lot more development time.
 
* Zooming mode:  Certain levels, or a game like sinistar, may require a
zoom mode, where the camera scales back (samurai showdown / GTA1).

 A) Limited to a certain scale, so as not to make things too small.

 B) Levels in Sinistar mode would be like 9x9 screens... so plenty of space
     to travel in before it loops.

 C) Zooming not 1 to 1,  or will make people dizzy.  Must be AI programmed to be
     less active.


* Scroll Mode

 - Possible Side scrolling and vertical scrolling vector levels... Such as piloting
into an enemy base to get to the central boss.

-------

 More refinement / design being done.   But should be enough to get a nice
playing design started.

 Will work more on enemys next:   Look, fire type, strengths/weaknesses, etc.

[Hurray Banana]

No offense, but there are a lot of ideas there. If I had an near infinite amount of time and I did not have a job that required so much of my free time it would be nice to implement some of those ideas.

I particularly like the turrets mounted to asteroids and I have already built in configurable controls (As I would want to play it on a cabinet).

I had also thought about a scrolling levels this would work well with gun emplacements.

I didn't really get any time this week things will settle down over the next few weeks when my students have got their Jan exams out of the way (Fundamentals and Advanced fundamentals). I'll try to put together an Alpha version as soon as possible.

HB

[Xiaou2]

 No Offense taken.   I never really asked you of you wanted to work on these.
Just was inspired to design again, and thought the ideas might be helpful.   
Although, it would be great to see a design
turn real one day...

 At least seeing the basics play out would probably be enough to gather troops
for a more complete version at some later time.   Or maybe some students could
take on sections of programming  heh