Xbox 360 Launching on November 22nd

[Scott84]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/651/651026p1.html

Atleast they finally annoucned the date.

[M3talhead]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/651/651026p1.html

Atleast they finally annoucned the date.

Good, now I know not to buy one until Nov. 22nd of 2007. I always wait atleast a year after a console is released to let the dust settle and see what its really all about. Besides, it allows me time to buy up all the Xboxs people will be practically giving away to make enough money to buy the 360.

[Stingray]

Yes indeed. I can't wait for the 360 to come out, but only because the prices on the X-Box & games will drop to a reasonable level and I'll finally buy one.

-S

[ChadTower]

At some point I'll get an Xbox.  Probably when I find one at a yard sale, not that I've been yard saling in months.

[Stingray]

Yard sailing:



-S

[ChadTower]

Man, unless that dude has some hardass wind, he's going to need larger, lighter wheels.

[DYNAGOD]

this thing is going to flop.
their choice to not go with a hi-def, hi-density media like blu-ray is going to be their first mistake. its going to be region coded, error two and the cost for what you get isnt going to be worth it.
game developers have already rep[orted that they cant fit their titles on dvd. Xbox wants all hi definition games, but clearly they are not thinking about the needs of their developers to meet this desire.

[JoyMonkey]

Having two bundles is a bad move too. Everyone that buys the $299 package is going to feel completely ripped off when they realize they can't play their old XBox games and need to hand over another $100 just for the hard drive (then maybe another $100 for the HiDef cables and remote).

[versapak]

this thing is going to flop.
their choice to not go with a hi-def, hi-density media like blu-ray is going to be their first mistake. its going to be region coded, error two and the cost for what you get isnt going to be worth it.
game developers have already rep[orted that they cant fit their titles on dvd. Xbox wants all hi definition games, but clearly they are not thinking about the needs of their developers to meet this desire.

Region coding is nothing new to consoles, and it sucks for those that wish to import, but it really has little (if any) impact on the success of a console.

Hi-def media would be cool, but it will make no difference in the gaming abilities, and that is the primary reason most people are going to be buying it. I have yet to see a dev claim they couldn't fit their game on DVD. Most games don't even fill one half of the current dvd-9 media.

The only thing that would be limited by the space would be hi-def fmv, and even with this gen fmv plays very little part in games. I expect even less of a role for it with the real time capabilites becoming even greater next gen.


The cost for what you get...

If you want next gen games, then there is no alternative. The PS3 is going to be priced up there as well.

It won't flop in the slightest (At least not in regions outside of Japan).



The only thing I am bumbed about, aside from the ever increasing prices, is the fact that the hard drive will not be utilized as I had hoped, thanks to MS going with it as an option.

I read somewhere that it was pretty much up to the developers though, and they overwhelmingly went with losing the hdd, when asked if they would want double the ram (360 went from 256MB to 512MB) or a hdd.

[skim36]

I read somewhere yesterday...think it was engadget?...that developers for 360 games were having problems with the hardware...seems it has some serious bottlenecks that are causing headaches....I'm going to wait and see.....

[JB]

this thing is going to flop.
...
its going to be region coded, error two
...

Region-coded systems...
NES.
SNES.
Genesis.
PlayStation.
PS2.

Yup, it's definitely a major mistake that dooms a system... 

[hulkster]

great a new pc! (i mean xbox)  seriously, why not just upgrade your pc, its the same thing as buying an xbox.  "but oh man, theres so many cool games for the xbox".  yeah like halo, halo 2, kotor, kotor 2, fable....oh wait, those all came out for the pc.  problem solved.

[orntar]

halo 2 did not come out for pc did it? i thought ms was keeping it xbox exclusive to sell more hardware.

[paigeoliver]

The original X-Box fumbled the use of the hard drive, as will this one.

Its like they have retards, oops, I mean "handicapable people" designing the things.

They stick a big fat hard drive in the units and then run the entire game from the discs, using the hard drive to save tiny 4K save files (ooh looky, 90 million blocks free). Meanwhile, you have wait times for EVERYTHING. I have played games where you have 5-10 second wait times in between each menu, its insane.

[shmokes]

Especially releasing two systems.  Everyone know that 9 times out of 10 the developers develop for the lowest common denominator.  Anything really cool that can be done with a hard drive is going to be something fundamental that requires the use of it.  Developers don't really want to do this as it limits their potential customers only to those who have the hard drive, while if they don't implement hard drive goodness every Xbox owner can buy and play the game.

And in MS's defense using the hard drive for Game installs was really an impossibility.  It only came with an 8-10 GB hard drive which would fit 1 to 3 games total.  And even at that MS was losing something to the tune of $170 per unit sold at launch.  A couple million units out the door and they were already looking at nearly a half-billion dollar loss.

Same with this one.  20 GB isn't enough for game installs.  Some of these games on DVDs are 7-8 GB.  But it can be used to great effect for MMORPG. 

But you're right.  It does look like they're going to fumble the use of the hard drive with Xbox 360.  Only difference is it looks like they are fumbling it much worse this time around.

[Stingray]

I have a lot of older PC games that came on CD that gave you the option of installing some files on the HD while still primarily running off the CD. I see no reason why developers couldn't add a similar option.

-S

[M3talhead]

Especially releasing two systems.  Everyone know that 9 times out of 10 the developers develop for the lowest common denominator.  Anything really cool that can be done with a hard drive is going to be something fundamental that requires the use of it.  Developers don't really want to do this as it limits their potential customers only to those who have the hard drive, while if they don't implement hard drive goodness every Xbox owner can buy and play the game.

And in MS's defense using the hard drive for Game installs was really an impossibility.  It only came with an 8-10 GB hard drive which would fit 1 to 3 games total.  And even at that MS was losing something to the tune of $170 per unit sold at launch.  A couple million units out the door and they were already looking at nearly a half-billion dollar loss.

Same with this one.  20 GB isn't enough for game installs.  Some of these games on DVDs are 7-8 GB.  But it can be used to great effect for MMORPG. 

But you're right.  It does look like they're going to fumble the use of the hard drive with Xbox 360.  Only difference is it looks like they are fumbling it much worse this time around.

You say they fumbled with the original xbox? How so?

I modded mine just fine. 

[shmokes]

Yeah...that's what I thought when I read it.  I was like, "Man the ability to throw a 250 GB drive in there is great."

But, of course, official uses of the hard drive are pretty limited.  Custom soundtracks are pretty cool and they are pretty common in Xbox games.

[pointdablame]

The thing that makes me laugh is the fact that Microsoft saw the future of the hard drive.

They did their Xbox live service, and they had a few downloadable content offerings.  Their arcade service, the new gold/silver plans... they all seem to work really well around a hard drive.  A time when the xbox hard drive would be REALLY useful was right around the corner.

And what do they do?  Segment their market so that a good portion of their user base doesn't even HAVE a hard drive anymore.

Idiots

[shmokes]

I'm just not that intereted in 360.  If it turns out to have a really great mod scene like the Xbox did, then maybe I'll bite after it matures a bit, but at the moment Revolution and PS3 seem much more interesting.  PS3 just seems more powerful and capable in virtually every way, and revolution, well, there's a whole thread about it.

Y'all can be sure, though, that PS3 is more powerful, though.  Check out what V.P. Peter Moore has to say about it:

"Cell processor or not, when I look at the technical specs, I don't see anything that concerns me overly from a performance point of view. Quite frankly, having the ability to move first in this space, I think, provides us with the opportunity for a huge advantage...If we look at the capabilities of the Xbox 360 from a technical aspect, and we lay against it the capabilities from a technical aspect of the PS3, everybody that works at a technical level that I respect says... It's a wash," he continued. "It really is. Both companies have incredibly powerful machines, and it will be about what the developers can do with them."

Ya don't say, "We're as good as the competition," unless you're not.  "We're as good as," translates directly to, "We are not better than."  If 360 were anything but weaker MS would be claiming that it was superior.  The fact that MS refuses to say that their hardware is actually superior speaks volumes.  Not to mention that it's estimated that the 360 costs $100 less to manufacture than the PS3.   

MS is bringing the only 2nd generation online service to the table, but I don't think that's all that huge.  Sony and Nintendo have been watching Live and learning from it just like MS has.  I suspect that Live will be the best of the three online services, but not by much.

PS3 is bringing the biggest, most feature-rich system, with High Definition Blu-Ray support and all the media center stuff, with all kinds of ports and built in wifi and bluetooth.  Nintendo has the new controller and....well...that's pretty much it.  I guess they've got their entire back library of 1st party games.

Microsoft?  They got nothing.  A faster processor.  A more comfortable, but virtually identical gamepad.  Double the capacity of the hard drive to a whopping 20GB, but only give it to some of the consumers.  A case that wasn't chosen from a competition in a 7th-grade art class.  That's it.  Am I missing something?   And a $400 price tag.  What is there to get excited about. 

At least Sony's system comes with controllers that have multiple uses in Australia.

[brophog]

Hi-def media would be cool, but it will make no difference in the gaming abilities, and that is the primary reason most people are going to be buying it.

Maybe, maybe not. The N64 hurt itself when the system wound up more powerful than what could be harnessed simply because the cartridge storage limit was too small.

Of course, cartridge size is fairly finite when compared to the different formats of optical technology. But the overall point stands: companies must look into the future. No matter the system, the games coming out towards the end always greatly surpass those that come out at it's inception and the hardware must be able to support those possibilities.

[Hoagie_one]

the savings by not useing a hi-def disk system is great.  DEvelopers will just make multi dvd games.

remember FF series on the ps1?

[pointdablame]

the savings by not useing a hi-def disk system is great.  DEvelopers will just make multi dvd games.

remember FF series on the ps1?

the FF series is a silly example though.  The PS1 had no DVD option, so they HAD to use multiple cd's to fit FFVII and the like.  Who's to say that they wouldn't have used a dvd if it was available at the time.

Plus, you have to realize that by the time the PS3 is released and ready to roll out with Hi-Def disks, the only important factor is whether it will cost DOUBLE the price of dvds.  If a Blu-Ray disc is anything less than double the cost of a dual layer DVD, it's not financially viable to use multiple DVDs.

The extra cost of the hi-def disk drive is negligible in the grand scheme of things.  The Blu-Ray drive can still read CDs and DVDs, so the only extra cost is the cost above that of a normal DVD drive.  That cost falls solely on Sony and not game developers.  The developers have their choice of media to use for their games.

[ChadTower]

Eh, more powerful, who cares... it's all about the games.  My favorite current gen games are all low power games like Super Monkey Ball.

[Otraotaku]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/651/651026p1.html

Atleast they finally annoucned the date.

Good, now I know not to buy one until Nov. 22nd of 2007. I always wait atleast a year after a console is released to let the dust settle and see what its really all about. Besides, it allows me time to buy up all the Xboxs people will be practically giving away to make enough money to buy the 360.

wouldnt that be 2? 

[ChadTower]

He said at least, not exactly.

[shmokes]

Developers are complaining about more than capacity when it comes to Microsoft's decision to stick with DVD9 discs.  Blueray (or HD DVD) can stream information off the disc MUCH faster than a regular DVD9 drive can.  This opens up all kinds of possibilities from seamless (read: load time-less) worlds to being able to have huge environments that have to scroll very fast, such as in a flight or racing game, etc.  Having a hard drive can make up for the deficiencies in the DVD9 media, but alas, MS has chopped that idea off at the knees as well.

[ChadTower]

Good thing I don't care to play those games.

[shmokes]

Hah....like you've any intention of owning one of these, Troll   

[ChadTower]

Yeah, that last one was kind of trolly, but more Nelson "ha ha".

I probably wouldn't mind having one, but if I got one, would likely sell it off for something I'd use more often.  I haven't fired up my Cube in months.

[Lilwolf]

Actually I'm more excited about getting a gamecube...  But having a wife I don't get much time to play... and want better games to play with my kids.

But the argument between the 360 and ps3 was started by sony who said that the xbox360 was what you can get today, and the ps3 is the future or something... 

But the ps3 is almost a full year in the future.  LOTs change in hardware in that year.  The first of a console usually doesn't do well long term... I blame dreamcast demise because of this... they where GREAT when they came out... and competed when others came out... but not in the long run when developers got good at using the newer hardware.

[shmokes]

It's kinda funny.  I get the impression that right now developers aren't even using the multiple cores because it's too hard.  I think this is going to make for some dramatically improved games a couple years down the road when programming for processors like this is second nature to them.

[iamnaeth]

"The first of a console usually doesn't do well long term... I blame dreamcast demise because of this... they where GREAT when they came out... and competed when others came out... but not in the long run when developers got good at using the newer hardware. "

That was part of the problem but the main problem with the dreamcast was you could just burn games for them without modding your dreamcast.  So silly to put little to no protection on the machine.

[shmokes]

I disagree.  It's not like you could just rent a game, fire up Nero and burn a copy.  PC CD-ROM drives can't read Dreamcast GD-ROMS.  To burn a game one had to find an image and download it and this was before bit torrent, before many people were using any kind of P2P besides Napster.  I don't think Piracy for the Dreamcast was ever all that rampant until Sega had already announced that they were killing it off.

Piracy was part of the problem, but I think Sega just never managed to get enough people excited about the Dreamcast.  It seemed to be a system for Hardcore gamers.  The general public never took to it.  For one thing, it lacked EA support out of the gate which by itself probably meant millions fewer units sold. 

[Otraotaku]

"*Thread begins to bleed*"

[Minwah]

Piracy was part of the problem, but I think Sega just never managed to get enough people excited about the Dreamcast.  It seemed to be a system for Hardcore gamers.  The general public never took to it.  For one thing, it lacked EA support out of the gate which by itself probably meant millions fewer units sold. 

I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the UK they advertised it to begin with (with hideously crap adverts that showed very little if anything of what the machine could do).  They sponsered Arsenal and did a few other things for a while and then seemed to pretty much abandon it.  Most people didn't even know what a Dreamcast was.

Shame as it is one of the best consoles ever IMO.  If only because it is the first console to have arcade ports which are not only as good as the arcade versions, but even better both graphically and game-play wise in some instances.

[clanggedin]

Lack of a decent Marketing plan killed the Dreamcast. As Shmokes said, piracy didn't even come into play until they had already announced they would not longer make games for it.

As for the Xbox 360. I will be waiting until a modchip is developed for it before I make my purchase. I can't pay $60 for each game and then have money left over for my arcade purchases.

I will be buying a Revolution once it is out. That would make a pretty cool arcade system.

[Skadar]

great a new pc! (i mean xbox)  seriously, why not just upgrade your pc, its the same thing as buying an xbox.  "but oh man, theres so many cool games for the xbox".  yeah like halo, halo 2, kotor, kotor 2, fable....oh wait, those all came out for the pc.  problem solved.

That's the main reason why I've never owned an XBox.  The PC is the ultimate gaming platform (cough... aside from a MAME cabinet... cough) and I'll never buy a console game if that same game is available on PC.

High end consoles just don't attract me anymore at all.  Why should I pay the same amount as a pretty good PC in order to get inferior gameplay and 1% of the feature set?

[dommer]

great a new pc! (i mean xbox)  seriously, why not just upgrade your pc, its the same thing as buying an xbox.  "but oh man, theres so many cool games for the xbox".  yeah like halo, halo 2, kotor, kotor 2, fable....oh wait, those all came out for the pc.  problem solved.

Dude, why'd you build an arcade cab?  Why not just have your friends huddled around the PC using the keyboard for controls for that authentic arcade experience? 

Consoles are a different experience than PC's.  You sit on the couch, you're in the living room, you drink a beer, and talk smack.  I can get madden 2006 on my pc, sure.  But then I gotta fish out the generic controllers, and oops, the buttons aren't mapped right so I need to go in and mess with that.  Ooh, this video setting isn't perfect... let me mess with it.  Wait, maybe if I turn off FSAA it'll run a little smoother.. you know I think I could get away with going up to 16x12 at this level of detail man...  Hey, move over a bit, you're hogging the 19" screen.  Sorry, I only have one good chair, you're gonna have to sit on an overturned Dairyland Milk Crate.  Crap, someone IM'ed me right in the middle of the play and it switched out of fullscreen... sorry, lemme turn off IM.  Alright now we're playing... crap the wife needs to check her email real quick, lets smoke a butt while she does that.  Ok, NOW we're set... crap... BSOD.  I guess I shouldn't have downloaded those new Detonators... maybe I should run memtest86?  Consoles are a different experience....

[Spbeyond]

Yeah!      Some games are good on Xbox (racing ect) some are way better on PC (strategy, shooters)  Just my opinion.

[Minwah]

I only like FPS's on PC with keyboard & mouse...and emulation on PC of course.

But nowadays I prefer consoles for most other games.  Consoles are hassle free.

[Edgedamage]

Looking foward to the 360's launch. Due to the fact that the xbox libary of games will drop in price. Besides from FPS and racing games on current systems I always keep going back to SNES/Genesis games.

[shmokes]

great a new pc! (i mean xbox)  seriously, why not just upgrade your pc, its the same thing as buying an xbox.  "but oh man, theres so many cool games for the xbox".  yeah like halo, halo 2, kotor, kotor 2, fable....oh wait, those all came out for the pc.  problem solved.

Dude, why'd you build an arcade cab?  Why not just have your friends huddled around the PC using the keyboard for controls for that authentic arcade experience? 

Consoles are a different experience than PC's.  You sit on the couch, you're in the living room, you drink a beer, and talk smack.  I can get madden 2006 on my pc, sure.  But then I gotta fish out the generic controllers, and oops, the buttons aren't mapped right so I need to go in and mess with that.  Ooh, this video setting isn't perfect... let me mess with it.  Wait, maybe if I turn off FSAA it'll run a little smoother.. you know I think I could get away with going up to 16x12 at this level of detail man...  Hey, move over a bit, you're hogging the 19" screen.  Sorry, I only have one good chair, you're gonna have to sit on an overturned Dairyland Milk Crate.  Crap, someone IM'ed me right in the middle of the play and it switched out of fullscreen... sorry, lemme turn off IM.  Alright now we're playing... crap the wife needs to check her email real quick, lets smoke a butt while she does that.  Ok, NOW we're set... crap... BSOD.  I guess I shouldn't have downloaded those new Detonators... maybe I should run memtest86?  Consoles are a different experience....

God....that's funny.  I couldn't have said it better.