How about some Pinball artwork!!! F-14 in progress

[allroy1975]

in response to this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=39483.0

Started with a pic of the side of my cab

[allroy1975]

Then I started vectorizing it...

[allroy1975]

and kept going

[allroy1975]

and going...

[allroy1975]

and going and going

[allroy1975]

So.  That's where I am now  It's not done, but I think it's looking pretty good.

Thoughts?  anyone care about this?  I think maybe we need to add a Pinball section to the Vector art site.  I'll be posting this stuff when it's done. 

When I finish the F-14 (an obviously simple one) I'll do another easy one (Comet)and then Black Knight 2000 .  Maybe eventually I'll end up doing the Bride of Pinbot.

For now I gotta finish this one and then do the head art.  I love pinball as much as Video Games, maybe more and I've seen Chad Tower  post in pinball forums.    so I'm not alone.

Someone comment please! 

Allroy

[allroy1975]

and then I think I was done.  What do you think?  see anything missing?

[allroy1975]

just whipped this up...here's what I've got on the head so far...

Original and 1st save

[allroy1975]

Added a Plane and a Missle

Need Sleepy...hopefully this won't look like crap in the morning.  My eyes hurt!

[allroy1975]

DONE!

[ChadTower]

Nice.  Very nice. 

Some thoughts:

Pinball manufacturers are crazy about their copyrights.  A public repository of pinball art probably wouldn't work for that reason.  They have no problem shutting down places that carry their stuff even if it hasn't been used commercially for twenty years or more.

That said, I see this sort of thing as the future of playfield repair.  Hand painting just isn't practical sometimes, but in the hands of a reasonably skilled graphics guy, you can take pics/scans of a good playfield, rasterize it, print it, and overlay onto a damaged playfield.

I have a couple of pins I may use as a guinea pig for this myself.

[allroy1975]

That's exactly what I'm going to do with one of my Baby Pac Man Machines.  I've also noticed that on the ORIGINAL baby pac-man there were 2 different side art stickers.  I think I'm gonna try to make closer to original repros of those.

But I think the Baby Pac is a great candidate for a playfield sticker for these simple reasons:

it's a small playfield- if it doesn't work out, I didn't spend $100 on a sticker.
I have a good original to scan from
My other one is worn to hell, so if it doesn't work out, I can't make it too much worse. 
did I mention that it's small? 

Allroy

[ChadTower]

You do realize that a vinyl sticker isn't going to stand up to pinball abuse alone, right?  You'd have to coat it with mylar at the very least, and you'd be better off coating it with automotive clearcoat.

[allroy1975]

yep.  any other advise is appreciated though. 

I've researched it a bit.  I don't know about clearcoating a vinyl sticker though.  It's like you gotta find a coat that will take to the vinyl without cracking all over the place.

[ChadTower]

That's the challenge, really.

[allroy1975]

here's a little piece of a  message I found posted by pinlicious in rgp:
. you are basically clearcoating over a sticker. that sticker get one air bubble on a spot where it
didn't adhere to the wood, and you are going to have major issues. go ahead, roll the dice... 

Now, the guy that printed my RoadBlasters artwork suggested this to me:

he said to clean the sides of the machine real well, then get a spray bottle with a little soap and mostly water in it, and wet the side of the machine slightly.  Then apply the sticker to that.  Use a squeege to get the air bubbles out then let it dry for a few days.  and you're good to go.  If you apply the same idea to a pinball PF it sounldn't be too hard to ensure those air bubbles are out of there.  Then I guess you use some automotive poly. 

I dunno.  Getting into what's the best way to apply a sticker and what to poly it with seems like maybe a topic better suited for the main forum.  Not burried in here with artwork. 

I don't really wanna ask though, because so many people have the attitude of  "I don't like that" so when you ask what's the best way to do it, their answer is "don't".

Allroy

[ChadTower]

Well, something has to be developed so that people can recreate playfields.  If it doesn't happen, pins are going to start to disappear at an alarming rate when their playfields deteriorate and people don't want to spend more than the game is worth to replace it IF they can find a replacement.

I think getting a totally trashed pin, unrecoverable playfield, and then trying this method, would be a good way to start.  In fact, BabyPac may be the best one to start with.  Small playfield, definitely worth restoring, and nothing complex on it.  High production run, relatively.  I'm sure a trashed BabyPac playfield isn't hard to get.

[Rook3]

As far as pinball manufacturers pursuing their images... If the art is being given away for free, I don't see a problem. That, and Williams is out of business, along with Capcom Pinball, Data East, Sega, Bally, etc.

There are a couple companies out there right now making peel and stick cabinet art for pins (search eBay and you'll see...). I doubt the former owners of Williams and Bally Pinball see any revenue from these art sales.

Now a company in Australia has taken up the Bally name with the intention of building pins, so we'll see how it goes.

Great Job on the Tomcat sideart! If more people could do this quality of vectorization, we might end up with a nice addition to the regular arcade art library.

Nice work!

Russ

[allroy1975]

So Baby Pac it is then. 

you think raster images vs. vector?  I'll need either a good scan of one of my Playfields or some good pics.  either shouldn't be too hard to get.

[ChadTower]

As far as pinball manufacturers pursuing their images... If the art is being given away for free, I don't see a problem. That, and Williams is out of business, along with Capcom Pinball, Data East, Sega, Bally, etc.

There are a couple companies out there right now making peel and stick cabinet art for pins (search eBay and you'll see...). I doubt the former owners of Williams and Bally Pinball see any revenue from these art sales.

Unfortunately, they DO pursue people distributing their images.  The people making the cab decals are doing so with a licensing agreement.  The manufacturers probably are getting a royalty from them.

So Baby Pac it is then.   

you think raster images vs. vector?  I'll need either a good scan of one of my Playfields or some good pics.  either shouldn't be too hard to get.

I do want a BabyPac, so this will be a good place to start when I get one.  It could be a year or more before I find a suitable BabyPac and have the funds for it at the same time.  From what I understand of the concepts, why would we even consider raster images as the end product?

[allroy1975]

That said, I see this sort of thing as the future of playfield repair.  Hand painting just isn't practical sometimes, but in the hands of a reasonably skilled graphics guy, you can take pics/scans of a good playfield, rasterize it, print it, and overlay onto a damaged playfield.

You said "rasterize"....so  I thought maybe you knew something I didn't. 

Well, when I fix up this Baby Pac, I'll have an extra one. 

I started the CPO last night.  It looks swell so far.  I'll start a new thread with that one in it tonight.

Allroy

[ChadTower]

You said "rasterize"....so

[allroy1975]

St. Louis...

[ChadTower]

Grr, too far, shipping would make the thing too expensive, likely.

[Rook3]

Unfortunately, they DO pursue people distributing their images.  The people making the cab decals are doing so with a licensing agreement.  The manufacturers probably are getting a royalty from them.

How can a company that no longer exists receive royalties for a product created 15 years ago? In our law-happy country, I can see anything as possible, just not probable. And do former pinball companies pursue their old graphics stronger than a video game company that's still in business? 

Now Pac-imagery I CAN see them (Namco) pursuing as they still enforce their copyright to that character, and they're still in business. Which is why 2 Bit Score went legit and paid the fees.

Either way, I'm glad someone has started the work on vectorizing pinball sideart.
Most of the newer art just can't be done as it's photo realistic (or has loads of dithering), but older art is a possibility.

Thanks Allroy1975!

Russ

[ChadTower]

How can a company that no longer exists receive royalties for a product created 15 years ago? In our law-happy country, I can see anything as possible, just not probable. And do former pinball companies pursue their old graphics stronger than a video game company that's still in business?

[allroy1975]

Yeah the F-14 isn't nearly as popular as the Black Knight 2000.  I'll do that one next.  Vectorizing that playfield should be INSANLY easy.  So, that'll be exciting.  There are no pictures on that playfield.  just a bunch of straight lightning bolts and perfect circles.  both obviously VERY easy to do in AI.  So that should be pretty easy.  I just don't know how to cover it once printed and applied.  It obviously needs some sort of protection on it  I don't like mylar...I like the idea of the clear coat poly.  just don't want it to crack etc.

Allroy

PS, I'll post pics of progress with the Baby Pac CPO later this afternoon.

[ChadTower]

What you would be better off doing, for your experimentation, is having some random image printed on a small piece of vinyl.  That you could then apply to a finely sanded piece of plywood.  You could do that at very little cost, over and over, without having to expend $200 for a full playfield print on a playfield worth money.

[allroy1975]

right.  That's the best way to do it. 

That's a lot of time and $$.  I'm a cheap ass. 

I'll do it though...I'll take one for the team. 


I was thinking of making the ai files available through emule to make it a little less "shut downable"

Allroy

[ChadTower]

Well, if you don't want to do it, I will do it once I'm through a couple higher priority proejcts.  I don't see a ton of cost or time in that.  Say, a 1 foot square print with any playfield style image on it and a 13" piece of plywood.  Apply the vinyl with spray adhesive, or get the print on self adhesive vinyl.  Then you could either coat it with mylar, or clearcoat it with a paint sprayer.  I can see a case where you coat it with mylar and then clearcoat it, using the mylar to prevent the liquid of the clear to damage the print.

[allroy1975]

the guy who printed my Road Blasters cab artwork charges 6 a sq foot.  I think a pinball playfield is probably about 2.5' x 4' at most.  that's 10 sq feet.  $60.  Your point is well taken though.  I'll mess around with small bits.

How much do you think the wood type matters?  like could I get a little piece of MDF?  I don't think MDF would make a good PF, but, i'm not making a PF, i'm testing laminate on vinyl. 

[ChadTower]

But you need to test with the material you would actually use.  It's not much of a test if you're using something other than the material you're trying to test.

Prove the concept first with test materials that don't cost a ton, then move on to full size on a trashed test playfield.  In fact, I would like to pick up a trashed but working pin for just this purpose.

[allroy1975]

yeah, but the wood isn't particularly relevant.  is it?

I'm testing sticker & Laminate.  not wood and sticker.  I'm pretty sure the sticker will stick.  ya know?

[ChadTower]

yeah, but the wood isn't particularly relevant.

[allroy1975]

is a real playfield made out of plain old plywood?

[ChadTower]

I would think that it is, but it is just an assumption.  Mine all look like plywood and the cabinets are made of plywood.

[allroy1975]

if I was smart (I might be because I'll probably do this) I would call Bill Davis and pick his brain on the matter. 

Allroy

[ChadTower]

Tell us your dog's name isn't Bill Davis.

[allroy1975]

his playfiled restorations are legend!

http://billdavis.homestead.com/page2.html

I don't have a dog any more.  but her name was TJ.

[ChadTower]

Bill's restorations all depend on playfields with damage to limited areas... and even then, only to one playfield.  If we could come up with a way to reproduce the whole playfield without a costly screenprinting process, we would be able to enable people to redo a completely trashed playfield.  Or maybe even create a new one... you could change the graphics as you saw fit and create custom playfields easily.  We're looking at different concepts.

If a playfield only has limited damage like the ones in his examples, you wouldn't want to do what we're doing anyway.

[saint]

I have a Machine Bride of Pinbot in very nice condition. I can take tons of 8 megapixel photos if you want?

--- saint

When I finish the F-14 (an obviously simple one) I'll do another easy one (Comet)and then Black Knight 2000 .  Maybe eventually I'll end up doing the Bride of Pinbot.

[allroy1975]

lol, I have the same game.  I'm getting better at vectorization, but holy cow...that game will be an undertaking.  No question about that.  I'm hoping some other people get into the pinball thing here and start joining in.  I could do TM*BOP if I din't have 3 kids or a wife etc etc. 

if soneone wants the join in with me, there is a LOT of ilittle stuff going on in that side art.

Allroy

[Rook3]

I think maybe we need to add a Pinball section to the Vector art site.

[allroy1975]

if you're serious I can get you the Comet side art.  I beleive it was used on Comet and Cyclone.  It's very simple.

Allroy

[Rook3]

Unless someone else wants to tackle it, I'll do it AFTER I finish my current project.

Took a while to get used to using the Illustrator layer system, but the art is coming along okay. I'm working on the right side of the backbox head right now.
I'm shocked actually at how well it's turning out.

I'll start a new thread when I'm ready to reveal the final product.

Here's what the original art looks like.



I hope to do another version of this art as well, but replacing the "midway" name with "Pinmame" 

Russ

[ChadTower]

I have faith... vectorizing is simple, once you have practiced it long enough.  I would love to be in here with you but I have too many projects already in my queue... so I offer my pinball advice.  Hope it helps.

[Wade]

Good work on the F-14 art, looks real good.  Aren't the red and white lines which run horizontally, supposed to be perfectly straight across?  Could you tweak your vector a bit to make that happen?  I don't think anyone would ever notice a line that is 1/16" off anywhere else, but on those large straight lines, it might be noticable.

As far as this being the future of pinball, I have to disagree.  There are more than enough pinball playfields to go around.  Collectors only have space for so many games, most don't buy them continually without selling others off.

Even those playfields or cabinets that have wear, can be touched up and made "like new", for those who care about that sort of thing.  Pins aren't getting the wear nowadays, like they got in the 70's and 80's.  People who have them at home don't play them THAT much.  Even most collectors don't care about condition that much.  It's mostly the guys who have tens of thousands of dollars to piss away, or who already have every game they want, who must just keep upgrading to more perfect "HUO" or "fully restored" games.  The average guy is happy with a game that works, and looks decent.  And containers full of hundreds of these kinds of pins arrive here every few weeks, by reimporters.

Stripping a field, applying a big sticker, and then trying to get something like clearcoat to stick to that, is a major pain in the butt, and generally not worth the effort or cost.  Esp when, a perfect playfield for GOBS of games is already floating around somewhere for a $100-300.  Or, when touching up is easier and ends up nicer in the end.

Wade

[ChadTower]

I know probably 20 active pin collectors in my area.

[Rook3]

I have to agree that having access to vectored playfield art would probably be of interest.

I don't know how many times I've seen a game I've considered buying, but didn't because the playfield art was worn down to the wood in the center. And shelling out an extra $150-300 for a whole playfield, plus time/energy to swap everything over to a new playfield... it's just not that appealing.

But perhaps a specially cut center piece, or plastic reprint, etc. would be just the thing.

Russ

[allroy1975]

but getting that printed artwork lined up with the original seemlessly seems like it' would be nearly impossible! 

doesn't it?

Allroy

[dracotom]

Hello  allroy1975,
I saw you done a great art with F14 Tomcat sides!
I wanna ask you something,
I'm a owner of this pinball and my playfield is quite damaged...
Maybe you have an idea where i can find good scan of the playfield or some parts???
In advance thank you.