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Author Topic: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???  (Read 13060 times)

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geomartin

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2005, 02:21:17 am »
Arcades did not die because kids stopped gaming. They died, because kids could get arcade quality gaming at home (or at least close enough to).

Couldn't be more wrong about that!
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2005, 11:25:51 am »
Arcades did not die because kids stopped gaming. They died, because kids could get arcade quality gaming at home (or at least close enough to).

Couldn't be more wrong about that!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 02:00:10 pm by versapak »

shmokes

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2005, 01:48:39 pm »
I so called this.  Katarugi's statements appear to be factoring in to Microsoft's pricing strategy.  I just pulled this snippet from Xbox-Scene:

Xbox 360 to launch in Europe on November 25 for 430EUR ?
>> From GamesIndustry.biz:
Quote
Highly placed sources in the UK industry have told GamesIndustry.biz that the Xbox 360 is set to launch in Europe on November 25th, with the US launch preceding a few days earlier.
According to our sources, speaking under conditions of strict anonymity, the official announcement of the European date will be made by Microsoft to its trade partners on the 15th of this month, two days before a public announcement at Game Convention in Leipzig.

The price of the system remains less certain - with our sources indicating that Microsoft itself may not have made up its mind on the matter as yet.
"The original plan was UKP 249 (358EUR/442USD)), but now that Sony is talking about the PS3 being expensive, UKP 299 (430EUR/530USD) is looking more likely," according to one source - although it was admitted that this pricing is a "best guess" based on information from Microsoft, not an official figure by any means.

In a way, it's seems like indirect price fixing.  The companies don't have to officially collude with each other.  They both now that each stands to lose hundreds of millions on hardware.  Sony sends out a public message to MS (but disguises it as being directed to consumers) saying, "Look, don't go nuts trying to undercut us. Our box is going to be REALLY expensive.  We're hearing rumors about a $299 pricepoint and we know that's going to cost you A LOT of money.  You don't need to go there just to beat us on price.  You can accomplish that at a much higher pricepoint."
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shmokes

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2005, 01:52:06 pm »
  Multiple generations of people listen to music, but the music industry is in decline right now, as well as the movie industry.  Markets ebb and flow period.

And I agreed already that the industry will have good years/bad years, good quarters/bad quarters.  There's just no bust coming any more than you would say that the movie industry is in a bust right now, just because ticket sales are "down".

If the whole economy goes seriously south that ain't some game-industry specific boom/bust cycle manifesting itself.  That's just people having less money to spend on non-essentials that will affect all nonessentials including the game industry.
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geomartin

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2005, 02:05:20 am »
And I agreed already that the industry will have good years/bad years, good quarters/bad quarters.  There's just no bust coming any more than you would say that the movie industry is in a bust right now, just because ticket sales are "down".

If the whole economy goes seriously south that ain't some game-industry specific boom/bust cycle manifesting itself.  That's just people having less money to spend on non-essentials that will affect all nonessentials including the game industry.


Basically...thanks for agreeing with me.  You're just using different terminology.  Bad years are Bust years.  Also Microsoft and Sony are public corporations that answer to shareholders.  If they build a console that is so expensive that they have to sell it at a loss, it can only be maintained for so long before the shareholders force them to make a profit or drop the product line.  They can afford to do it now because game sales are brisk and they make it up in licensing fees to developers.  But if they have a couple bad quarters in game sales you could see dramatically longer periods between hardware upgrades i.e. new consoles.  To illustrate my point, I would like to mention that Toys'R'Us is now considering dropping toys from the stores and just selling baby clothes and furniture.  All it takes is shareholders getting pissed because of saggy sales.  Also my point about arcades dying was to illustrate that Arcades and the home console market died at the same time.  Arcades didn't die because of better systems at home, the home market died at the same time, kids just stopped playing period.  Better systems at home are what brought the industry back, and what is keeping the arcades from coming back.  It did almost become extinct though, and that is incontrovertable.  I can also say that I have two teenage boys, neither of which has even mentioned the new Sony PSP.  It's not because of price, they ask for outrageous stuff all the time, they just seem to have no interest in it.  I haven't heard any of their friends mention it either.  They are also struggling to find new games that catch their interest.  I take them to the store when they get their allowance, they look at the games for a good twenty minutes, find nothing different enough to warrant a purchase and go buy something else.  The last game they got excited about was Halo 2.

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2005, 01:12:34 pm »

Basically...thanks for agreeing with me.  You're just using different terminology.  Bad years are Bust years.  Also Microsoft and Sony are public corporations that answer to shareholders.  If they build a console that is so expensive that they have to sell it at a loss, it can only be maintained for so long before the shareholders force them to make a profit or drop the product line.  They can afford to do it now because game sales are brisk and they make it up in licensing fees to developers.  But if they have a couple bad quarters in game sales you could see dramatically longer periods between hardware upgrades i.e. new consoles.  To illustrate my point, I would like to mention that Toys'R'Us is now considering dropping toys from the stores and just selling baby clothes and furniture.  All it takes is shareholders getting pissed because of saggy sales.  Also my point about arcades dying was to illustrate that Arcades and the home console market died at the same time.  Arcades didn't die because of better systems at home, the home market died at the same time, kids just stopped playing period.  Better systems at home are what brought the industry back, and what is keeping the arcades from coming back.  It did almost become extinct though, and that is incontrovertable.  I can also say that I have two teenage boys, neither of which has even mentioned the new Sony PSP.  It's not because of price, they ask for outrageous stuff all the time, they just seem to have no interest in it.  I haven't heard any of their friends mention it either.  They are also struggling to find new games that catch their interest.  I take them to the store when they get their allowance, they look at the games for a good twenty minutes, find nothing different enough to warrant a purchase and go buy something else.  The last game they got excited about was Halo 2.

Geo


Ok, I have to really disagree here.

BAD years are NOT bust years.  A bad quarter and an industry bust is completely different.  Gaming could have a slow and steady decline for multiple years at this point and the industry still wouldn't bust.  The gaming industry holds more financial weight than movies do currently.  Short of a Great Depression-sized economic disaster, you will NOT see a gaming bust of the magnitude seen in ~1982.  It'll happen the same day that movies and music go out of style.

Second, Microsoft is STILL losing money on their consoles.  I understand that you are saying that it would be frowned upon if they were losing game sales WHILE losing money to hardware sales, but the two are intertwined.  I forget the number exactly, but I believe the loss is absorbed if a consumer buys something like 4 games when liscensing, game profits, etc are taken into account.  You will NEVER see a time where a game company will see sharply declining game sales, yet a boom in hardware sales.  If they aren't selling as many games, they aren't selling as many systems.. thus, their losses are proportionate.  Stockholders do need to be answered to, but if the PERCENTAGES remain constant or similar, they won't be such a factor.  What scenario can you think of where Microsoft would sell millions of game consoles at a loss, yet not sell an average of 4 games per system??  Stockholders care about proportionate company successes.

Third, Toys R Us is a terrible example.  The company was recently sold, and is undergoing a complete corporate retructuring.  They HAVE to do something different to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.  New blood bring in changes in busines, it's normal.  Also, toys take up the bulk of TRU floorspace, not games, so I don't see how that is even relevant.  TRU was almost destroyed thanks to the Targets and WalMarts of the world... it had nothing to do with changes in consumer preference.  There hasn't been a "toy bust" has there??

your sons may not want a PSP, but I don't see how that is a foreshadowing of the "unavoidable" gaming demise that you see on the horizon.
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geomartin

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2005, 12:54:35 am »
The Toys R Us example was to show how drastically companies sometimes have to change when Shareholders see sustained losses.  To show that a company with Toys in their name would consider not selling Toys to satisfy shareholders.  I am also saying that a bust will eventually come, based on the past history of luxury items in the economy.  It might very well take another Great Depression, but who's to say that isn't on the horizon.  The US Economy is highly leveraged in the global market place.  Some very large countries whose economies could very well overrun ours are holding vast amounts of US debt, i.e. China, Arab oil cartels, etc.  Most of us here on this board are very familiar with the growing trend in the outsourcing of US technology and manufacturing jobs.  We are all also very familiar with the rising cost associated with fuel, food, housing, insurance, and taxation.  All I'm saying is that these factors should affect Sony and Microsofts ability to charge $400 for hardware that does not show dramatic improvement over the last model.  I'm just trying to be realistic.  I love games as much as anyone around here, but I remember when you could not go to a mini-mart, gas station, restraunt, or mall without hearing or seeing coinop video games.  They were very much main stream then, and they disappeared.  Right now most people in this country live beyond their means.  Eventually the bill will come due and luxury spending will take the first hit.  The housing market in California is outrageous.  Median priced homes are selling at an average $500,000 plus.  Most people get into these using interest only loans.  In the next 5 years the interest will start getting tacked on to these loans and people's house payments will rise dramatically.  The banking and real estate industry is openly speculating on the coming boom to their industry when all the foreclosures hit.  Credit Card companies see it coming and are frantic to get lawmakers in this country to pass legislation preventing bankruptcy, much of which has already passed.  Maybe I'm just being too much of a big picture person, paranoid or what not, but I got off the credit bandwagon a decade ago and it terrifies me to see the amount of debt being carried by the average person in this country.  I've worked in manufacturing since I was 14 years old, my father owned a machine shop.  I've been an R&D machinist for almost 15 years, and I've watched very large segments of manufacturing in this country disappear, and we should all be very afraid.  It will be hard to sustain the empire if we get everything we buy from other countries.  I try to buy American, but it is very difficult these days.  My last Ford was Heche en Mexico.  At this point I guess I've gone off the deep end and have no understanding of basic economics.  I will get up Monday morning, put bread in my Chinese toaster, coffee in my Taiwanese coffee pot, put on my made in Mexico clothes, drive to work in my made in Mexico car, sit in front of my made in Japan CNC machine, and dream of $400 dollar game consoles while I wait for someone to ask me to make something.  At this point I'm dependent on our governments seemingly endless need for new ways to put holes in s#%t to keep my machine running.

Geo
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2005, 01:29:23 am »
I hate to go off topic, but I just have to say one thing...

<rant>
I'm not reading these loooooooong posts that don't have carriage returns. It could be great words of wisdom, but if it's not broken into logical units, I'm not going to waste my time figuring it out.

The paragraph is a wonderlful invention. It's existed for hundreds of years. Please use it.
</rant>

We now return to our regularly scheduled game-related argument.


geomartin

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2005, 01:39:57 am »
My humblest apoligies for the long rant.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2005, 08:17:39 am »
i'm guessing 399 USD MAX
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2005, 09:13:32 am »
There will be no videogame bust.

Why?

Because I said so!

And $399USD will be the US release date price of the PS3...also because I said so...
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2005, 11:27:32 am »


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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2005, 12:10:08 pm »
http://specialreserve.co.uk/n_3517-news.html?af=ur120805&afset=1

intresting
I'd put Mac OS on there before you could even say the word "Tiger".

If it can really accept the MacOS fully, the PS3 could be the cheapest way to get into the Mac scene.....
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2005, 03:55:15 pm »
yeah, well theoretically it can anyhow, seeing how the PS3 (well actually so do the 360 and revolution) use the PPC arcitecture, it would probabally just require drivers.

hmm, come to think about it, dont modern amigas use the PPC arcitecture?

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2005, 12:36:06 am »
So Sony wants to make a Console that is more like a PC ???  Maybe Nintendo is onto something.  Make a console that plays games.  They may just price themselves out of the market by trying to do everything, i.e. music player, home computer, internet browser, etc...instead of concentrating on games.  They could run into trouble at $400 if the next generation Nintendo comes in at $200 and fufills the main purpose of playing games.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2005, 12:01:04 pm »
I spoke with a guy I know working for GameStop.

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2005, 12:13:06 pm »
Its very odd that the Sony rep said it would be out thanksgiving since everything I read about the PS3 says that's almost impossible due to the Cell not being ready in the numbers needed.

PS3 was supposed to be out Spring 2006 or even pushed to 2007 according to some.  I really doubt we'll see a PS3 in 2005.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2005, 03:57:28 pm »
Quote
Again, everyone can take this info with a grain of salt and listen to whatever you want to, I was just giving my update here.

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2005, 04:04:24 pm »
heh I saw the disclaimer.  You'll notice I didn't say you were wrong, I just think it is very unlikely.

None of us will know the deal until it comes from teh horse's mouth... until then we're all guessing, even the "reps"   Sony or MS can change whatever they want at a moment's notice.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2005, 04:34:30 pm »
That said, your friends is feeding you a line.  He either wasn't really there, and "heard" it from coworkers, or he's lying to you.  There's no way in Hell that Sony reps are telling Gamestop employees that the PS3 will be out in November.  If there was even a possibility that it would be out by then they'd be singing it from the hilltops to steal thunder away from MS and their supposed head start.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2005, 11:42:52 am »
whoa whoa whoa!!!!!  this is why i am usually so worried to post comments like these.  I stated that this was hearsay already... no need to get so wound up about it.  I implied that it could be false, I am not going to accuse him of lying and maybe he did misunderstand something.  Geez.

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2005, 01:43:39 pm »
I didn't mean to scare you toyfiend, but it's a message board.  You can't really expect a disclaimer to preclude discussion on a topic.  If I make a post that says, "My friend works for NASA and claims that we have just found intelligent aliens living in giant pyramids on the Moon -- of course, different people say and believe different things, so take this with a grain of salt," people are still going to discuss whether the claim has any merit. 

I'm not wound up about it.  I'm just telling you that it ain't true.  Not just that the release date is inaccurate, but that Sony reps did not make that claim.  They would get fired.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2005, 07:10:46 pm »
There could have been a break in the chain when the info got passed along. It's very possible they meant Thansgiving 2006. I think that's a date that falls into the range of most industry expectations as well as Sony's own statements.


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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2005, 07:34:45 pm »
hey guys i was at EB games today talking to the manager & he told me that EB games had just received final pricing & the starting price would be $499.99, guess i wont be getting one of these for while, way to high
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2005, 11:48:03 pm »
Yeah, it needs a reduction in price to the tune of $150.  For a handheld system $150 is the early-adopter price.  Mass market doesn't come until it hits $99.  It's mostly hardcores who own a DS right now.  $250 isn't close to a reasonable expectation for Sony.

I'll echo that the device is damned cool.  But...

P.S.  It's the "but" that's important, cos that's how everybody feels.  It's not that people don't want one.


Schmokes direct quote on the Sony PSP.  I assume that $499 will get the same reaction on a console.  That said, I would believe slow sales are in store for Sony.  If sales are slow, new games will likely come at a slower pace.  Just a little mental gymnastics and you can see a possible slowdown coming.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2005, 12:24:30 am »
Heh....Nintendo made some big mistakes too.  They cost Nintendo its market-leader position.  Where was the bust?

Sony has competitors, ya know.  Xbox will probably retail at $399, possibly even $349.  Nintendo will probably release at something totally reasonable like $249.

Look, I'll admit that a bust in the videogame industry is within the realm of possibility.  It just ain't that damned likely.  There comes a time when a product reaches a critical mass and there's no turning back.  It's like suggesting that there's going to be a bust in the TV industry just because when TV's were first introduced they went though a period where they were struggling to catch on. 

The nature of hardware generations in the console industry does create a cycle that includes a slowdown in sales running up to a new console launch, but it's nothing like the bust that occurred between Atari and Nintendo.  Society is just extremely damned unlikely, at this point, to up and decide that videogames aren't fun anymore.  They're too entrenched.  Once again, it's like suggesting that the same thing could happen to the television.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2005, 12:36:29 am »
As sure as I am that $499 is a possibility for PS3, I just don't think it will ever happen.  Sony is too smart for that... they know that at that price, they are WAY too far from the average consumer price tolerance.

I'd put money down on the PS3 being delayed to 2007 before you see it at $499, but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2005, 12:53:57 am »
The nature of hardware generations in the console industry does create a cycle that includes a slowdown in sales running up to a new console launch, but it's nothing like the bust that occurred between Atari and Nintendo.  Society is just extremely damned unlikely, at this point, to up and decide that videogames aren't fun anymore.  They're too entrenched.  Once again, it's like suggesting that the same thing could happen to the television.

I see what you are saying.  I just think that unless there is some fantastic improvement from one generation console to the next, the game console will end up exactly like the TV.  Likely to be replaced only when the old one breaks as opposed to as soon as next years model comes out.  There will come a point of diminishing returns on new hardware development.  That would be the most likely time for a bust.  At this point everyone is assuming that new advancements in gaming technology are endless and that they will continually be able to roll out new and improved systems year after year.  That's not likely.  When that occurs how many editions of Madden are you going to buy for the same system before you've had enough?
Please!  Give me the good news first!

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2005, 10:27:50 am »
Now I could buy into that theory.  But not yet.  I still consider videogames to be in their infancy.  Control systems are especially primative.  I'm still waiting for a Holodeck.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2005, 04:52:26 pm »
So, get a load of this.  MS releases the final pricing for the Xbox 360 and looky what immediately pops up on Amazon.com:

Playstation 3=$299

This is by no means an official announcement, but it carries weight.  I had a feeling that Ken Kutaragi was just trying to goad MS into releasing at a higher price with all his yammering about how expensive Playstation 3 was.
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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2005, 10:31:56 pm »

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2005, 11:15:12 am »
Quote
I'm not wound up about it.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2005, 11:16:48 am by toyfiend2004 »

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2005, 12:11:30 pm »

So how exactly would it be that Sony reps would get fired, but it would be okay for M$ reps to not get fired?  that makes no sense.   and it makes perfect sense for Sony to do what they always do and play the market until the very last minute.  they have always been pretty secretive about their "stuff".  And if the 360 were to come out in November, it would make PERFECT sense for the PS3 to hit around there as well so as to keep up with the 360 and not lose any lead that they may already have.   

No offense, but have you been reading about PS3 at all??

The PS3 will NOT be out this fall.... Sony doesn't even have the capabilities currently to provide enough dev units to studios.... let alone mass produce the system in the numbers needed for release.  The Cell chip is EXTREMELY new, and they are not ready to produce it yet.

Sony can play the game all they want and use clever marketing, but stop saying the PS3 will be out this fall like the 360... it won't be.  People are saying it's increasingly possible that we won't see PS3 until 2007.... how the heck are they going to make it out for Xmas '05??

They're not, that's how.
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

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Re: Just how expensive is PS3 going to be???
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2005, 12:27:24 pm »
So how exactly would it be that Sony reps would get fired, but it would be okay for M$ reps to not get fired?  that makes no sense.   and it makes perfect sense for Sony to do what they always do and play the market until the very last minute.  they have always been pretty secretive about their "stuff".  And if the 360 were to come out in November, it would make PERFECT sense for the PS3 to hit around there as well so as to keep up with the 360 and not lose any lead that they may already have.   

Heh....how exactly.....LMAO.  MS reps wouldn't get fired because the Xbox 360 IS[/i] going to be out in November.  Playstation 3 will not be out until Spring '06 at the absolute earliest.  Sony has already suggested that if the Xbox 360 isn't flying off the shelves they might just push the PS3 laungh to 2007.  It might make sense to release at the same time as MS, but they can't just magically do it.  They have to first mass produce millions of units.  Not to mention that developers have to have development kits in order to actually make games for the system.  Just how successful do you think their system would be if they actually were somehow able to produce enough units for retail by November and it released with no finished software.  If they just said, "Okay everybody, buy the Playstation 3!  We'll have some games ready for you within the next six months.  Until then it will look great on your shelf.
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