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TOKN KB16 (Tiger-Heli's Testing Complete)

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Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: nostrebor on June 09, 2005, 08:32:33 am ---It is ironic though. Because of mattp's evasion and double talk, the fire stayed lit, and now there is no doubt about his product. A few simple truthful answers might have kept his encoder in play.

--- End quote ---
Not likely.  All I think he could say is it's an 8x2 matrix encoder and you could add diodes to it if you didn't want ghosting.  Wouldn't help his sales much.

Chris:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on June 09, 2005, 09:01:30 am ---
--- Quote from: nostrebor on June 09, 2005, 08:32:33 am ---It is ironic though. Because of mattp's evasion and double talk, the fire stayed lit, and now there is no doubt about his product. A few simple truthful answers might have kept his encoder in play.

--- End quote ---
Not likely.
--- End quote ---

Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: jjd on June 09, 2005, 08:47:28 am ---It's kindof sad to make this my first post, but...

--- End quote ---
You aren't Mattp posting under a different name (should I alert Saint?) er, nevermind. . .

--- Quote ---I am the 'proud' owner of a Tokn KB32 encoder and your test results concern me.   I havn't had the time to get the KB32 installed in my CP, so I haven't been able to test it yet. 

--- End quote ---
They concern me as well, but I think they're accurate, feel free to post your results.

--- Quote ---As I read the review, I couldn't tell if you were running jumpers to each of the common connections on the PCB.  I may be fishing here, but could that have contributed to the ghosting in some way?  I don't have any technical rationale for that question, I'm just curious. 

--- End quote ---
It's matrix, so there isn't a common ground connection on the PCB.  The way the device is supposed to be wired is with every other wire on an IDE cable going to NO and COM on a microswitch.  If you trace an IDE cable, this equates to connecting the upper and lower terminals on the IDE header for each switch connection.  This is what the jumpers do.  Since it works flawlessly with a single jumper connected, I think the connection if proper.  Basically, the jumpers simulate a pressed and held closed switch.  And when I connected 3 of them I had problems.  Not good signs.


--- Quote ---Since I paid less than $25 for the 32 input version, I thought I had made a decent purchase.  I hope it works out, but at least I'm not out significant bucks for the thing.

--- End quote ---
With shipping?  Otherwise, why was this a better purchase than the no-solder KeyWiz Eco2 for like $24.  (Serious question). 

--- Quote ---I also just checked the Tokn spec sheet on the KB16 and it very cleary says that it does not ghost keys.

--- End quote ---
I am well aware of that.  I am also well aware that Mattp originally tried to say it was a scanning two-ground multiplex and not a matrix and only conceded the matrix point when RandyT pointed out that those were the same things.

--- Quote ---I hope to test it this weekend, and I will report my results.

--- End quote ---
Please do.  One caution is to please use a program like Ghostkey or KeyScan for your testing, as a ghost key is an additional input plus the intended ones, so if you are playing MAME and the ghost input is not used, it could easily go un-noticed.  (I.E. - it's not as bad as it seems in real use, but an encoder advertised as 16 inputs, no ghosting, should be expected to deliver this.)

--- Quote ---If it turns out that when correctly attached and used as intended that ghosting occurs, I will be a very unsatisfied customer.

--- End quote ---
I would be too if I paid for it.  Again, the only difference between the jumper and a microswitch (button) attachment is a jumper is constant on and a switch is on-off.

--- Quote ---I will withhold final judgment until I have a chance to test it.  I hope that the simple connection of all of the grounds makes a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

--- End quote ---
Again, there aren't common grounds, so really nothing to connect like you are suggesting.

--- Quote ---Mattp, your comments would be very welcome here.

--- End quote ---
Only if they are more truthful than past postings have been.

Bloinkxp:
Tiger-Heli,
That is some great testing!  Very well thought out, and easy for someone like me to read.  Thanks for doing the testing and educating us  :)

-b

Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: Bloinkxp on June 09, 2005, 09:33:54 am ---Tiger-Heli,
That is some great testing!  Very well thought out, and easy for someone like me to read.  Thanks for doing the testing and educating us  :)

-b

--- End quote ---
Thanks.  I was very careful to document everything as I have been accused (only by Mattp) of trying to undermine this product against the KeyWiz.  So it wouldn't do to post "it seems like it generated some extra keys sometimes".  I got identical results from two different keyboard testing programs, so I'm pretty confident of them, but I would encorage and welcome anyone else to run their own tests.

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