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GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
Toonces:
I'd also like to see a silent commandline version as well.
Thanks!
Erik
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Ahigh on September 16, 2005, 05:25:20 pm ---I don't understand what you're saying. Let me ask you some questions, because maybe I'm dead wrong about what I've been thinking.
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Then please re-read what I wrote. It's important to me that you get the full value of the products you gave your hard-earned money for.
If you thought you needed to install a 4-way in the same panel, or worse, buy another interface to drive it (even as much as I would like the additional sales) then I need to make sure some things are clear about the designs.
--- Quote ---I was merely trying to (a) suggest people buy 49-ways from you instead of Happ, and to (b) suggest how you could improve your product.
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Appreciated, as always.
--- Quote ---I hope my comments didn't hit a sore spot and come across as a complaint. Maybe you should re-read my post.
--- End quote ---
Not at all and I read it fine the first time. But if you have to replace the functionality of the setup with other devices, then something is amiss. If I didn't point that out to you, it would be doing you a disservice as one of my customers.
RandyT
Thurman:
--- Quote from: Ahigh on September 16, 2005, 06:45:31 pm ---So to answer the above question specifically, what is the answer (anybody, not just Randy).
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u_rebelscum:
--- Quote from: RandyT on September 16, 2005, 05:57:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on September 16, 2005, 04:38:53 pm ---This has been discussed before, but. . . .
I don't see how having the option of changing the sensitivity level is "counter productive" or "negatively change the functionality".
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It's quite simple. If the 4-way mode no longer works well after changing the dead-zone (or tantamount to that, 4-way games do not play well) then it's not really a suitable replacement for a 4-way stick, thus defeating the purpose of the interface.
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I am NOT asking to make the default different from what it is now. Option, Randy, option. If I decided to make it "not play well", it would be my choosing.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---The reasons you listed above are the reasons why Ahigh is asking for adding the option of changing the dead zone. He doesn't want to force everyone else to have to have his 3x3 dead zone.
--- End quote ---
I disagree completely. No offense intended to Ahigh, but he is asking to overcome a mechanical deficiency by changing the way the interface operates. This would be like trying to add horsepower to your engine because your brakes are sticking and robbing you of speed.
--- End quote ---
::) More like having a car that sometimes accelarates without stepping on the gas. I first greased the pedal etc, but that didn't help. I could continue playing with it, and die many times in the proccess (by those ghosts/kong thrown barrels), or I could either open up the car and physically loosening the throttle to the gas pedal, or change the firmware to subtract x amount.
It's true a perfect working stick would make things better, yes, but your interface might* (see below) be able to mask the stick's defaults.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- It's more like you're forcing everyone to have a highly sensitive 4-way joystick, even if they would prefer a lower sensitivity (even after fixing the return to center problem). Look at the dozens of joysticks out there, and the past threads in this forum on opinions on which is the best joystick for fighter/shmups/general/4-way/other games.
--- End quote ---
Forcing??? We're getting a little silly now, aren't we?
--- End quote ---
Silly, no. Not clear in my writing, yes. If I buy your interface, I am buying a highly sensitive 4-way and 8-way stick (among the other modes), even if I'd perfer a less sensitive stick, or think I do. But I can't test if I, not you, if I play better with the middle 9x9 grid ignored. Maybe you're right, but I can't test myself to it. I'm more for testing me and my likes, than your interface.
If I buy Xarcade, I buy clickly-clicks. If I buy your 49-way interface, I buy a high sensitivity 4-way. I have the option of pulling the clicky-clicks, but I don't have the option of pulling the high sensitivity from your interface. And you are the only prebuilt option for 49-way to 4/8-way & analog. Not exactly "force", but "buying into a certain sensitivity" is longer to say.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---I know you tested it out, but even if 99% of the people would choose the default setting afterwards (ie: 1x1 deadzone) some people (me included) don't feel good blindly following what other people's reviews say without testing it out the differences themselves to see how well the different setting feel to them.
--- End quote ---
So to draw a parallel in the "real world", are you saying that when an engineer designs a laser printer, he should provide a user-option to focus the laser because 1% don't trust that the machine was designed properly?
--- End quote ---
No. I'd say between 5%-25% here would want to test the different levels; I'm going on your say so that only 1% would keep a non-default sensitivity.
And good and higher quality color laser and inkjet let you make adjustments to the head alinements, contrast, etc (but usually not focus) in case the default settings aren't the best for whatever reason (such as shipping, manufacturing differences, temperture, humidity, etc). The defaults are "good enough" most of the time, but the adjustments are there anyway. The ones that don't have the adjustments are usually the cheapo "buy for free" trash.
--- Quote ---Or so that those "who like to experiment" can see what awful output it creates when de-focused compared to the proper factory settings, "just so they can be sure it was designed properly"?
The first time someone wrote a review about the blurry text quality of the printer, without understanding the nuances of the focus control, the engineer that provided one would be out of a job.....if the business was around long enough for him to get fired because of it. ;)
--- End quote ---
Which is what defaults are for.
Look at the many PC motherboard manufacturers make overclockable MB, even if only 1%-5% buyers continue to overclock after playing with it. Some MBs aren't for overclocking, sure, but most BYO MBs have some level of overclocking.
*However, from what you're saying here, especially from the similes you use, I'm guessing the gwiz49 uses an algorithm that doesn't go well with adjustable levels. At some point I should test wiring a 49-way old school and see if I can get 4-way action with a 3x3 deadzone grid. After I update Analog+. :-[
RandyT:
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on September 16, 2005, 08:45:16 pm ---I am NOT asking to make the default different from what it is now. Option, Randy, option. If I decided to make it "not play well", it would be my choosing.
--- End quote ---
It would also reflect poorly on the product in the eyes of those who might not fully understand the interface or how it works. Word of mouth is the most important advertising one can have for a product. If a product gets a "bad rap" because someone sets it up incorrectly, it can be devastating, even though the problem was only perceived.
This was what my laser printer parallel was meant to illustrate and you completely missed the point. If I wanted to talk "inkjet printers", I would have. Inkjets have adjustments because of the loose manufacturing tolerances on the heads and how they are held in the printer. Alignment is ALWAYS necessary. Apples and oranges.
There are so many options on the interface now, I think it's confusing and scary enough to the novice. Options are great, but when they begin to overwhelm, you have a problem.
--- Quote --- ::) More like having a car that sometimes accelarates without stepping on the gas.
--- End quote ---
You are talking about the problem with the stick, which I said needs to be fixed. You aren't even drawing your analogy on the same premise.
--- Quote ---If I buy Xarcade, I buy clickly-clicks. If I buy your 49-way interface, I buy a high sensitivity 4-way. I have the option of pulling the clicky-clicks, but I don't have the option of pulling the high sensitivity from your interface. And you are the only prebuilt option for 49-way to 4/8-way & analog. Not exactly "force", but "buying into a certain sensitivity" is longer to say.
--- End quote ---
If you buy an Xarcade only to pull the controls, you should have researched your purchase better or emailed me about a panel kit ;) . And you can't change the throw or clickiness of a Super joystick either. How does that fall into your equation? Should we direct the petition to HAPP or directly to Industrias Lorenzo :) ?
BTW, anyone who thinks that a joystick with a fairly strong rubber centering grommet is going to be more comfortable or accurate to use if one were required to push it further off center, where the resistance grows exponentially, should probably research their purchases (and some other things) a little better as well.
--- Quote ---And good and higher quality color laser and inkjet let you make adjustments to the head alinements, contrast, etc (but usually not focus) in case the default settings aren't the best for whatever reason (such as shipping, manufacturing differences, temperture, humidity, etc). The defaults are "good enough" most of the time, but the adjustments are there anyway. The ones that don't have the adjustments are usually the cheapo "buy for free" trash.
--- End quote ---
As mentioned above, this analogy doesn't cut it. Any time you have consumer grade devices where colors must be overlaid precisely, there will always be the need for alignment. Even on the "cheapo "buy for free" trash." That is why I didn't mention color in my analogy.
--- Quote ---Which is what defaults are for.
Look at the many PC motherboard manufacturers make overclockable MB, even if only 1%-5% buyers continue to overclock after playing with it. Some MBs aren't for overclocking, sure, but most BYO MBs have some level of overclocking.
--- End quote ---
Well, this isn't a BYO interface, it's a fully tested product that will work well within the confines of it's intended use. I took so much heat for this device that a sane man would have walked away shaking his head and taken up farming. But I felt comfortable making the statement and stuck by it because of the testing that had gone into it. Strangely, some of the very same people who doubted such a thing could even work now seem to think they can do it better :) (present company excluded....)
As for your analogy, don't think of it as the motherboard, rather the CPU. Look at the lengths they go to so as to prevent modification of the CPU for the purposes of overclocking. Part of it is a money grab, certainly, but the rest of it revolves around support issues, warranty, marketing, quality perception and so-on. Sure, Billy can run his 1.2 at 3ghz. But when it catches on fire, for some reason Billy never has a problem talking about how crappy the processors are. And the people who listen to Billy don't know he's an evil overclocker and just hear the negative noise that sways their perception of the product, so the manufacturers do their best to make sure Billy can only run his 1.2 at 1.2ghz.
--- Quote ---*However, from what you're saying here, especially from the similes you use, I'm guessing the gwiz49 uses an algorithm that doesn't go well with adjustable levels. At some point I should test wiring a 49-way old school and see if I can get 4-way action with a 3x3 deadzone grid. After I update Analog+. :-[
--- End quote ---
There are only 49 possible positions for these sticks. Giving up any of them at all is not a good thing unless absolutely necessary. Some modes are more forgiving of a deadzone than others and this is based heavily on the types of games associated with those modes. And that's all I have to say about that ;)
RandyT
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