New deck! Reale Estate/Construction question

[screaming]

Hey there,

  I'm looking for a little info for this wonderful fantastic patio/deck idea that I have for my new house.

  I have a deck now but it needs to be replaced.  The new one will be bigger, about 25'x50', with half of that enclosed, and possibly heated (3 season).  I hope that I can get away with doing it myself and with "free help" from my friends and family.  

  I know this is a very open-ended question, but how much $$ am I looking at spending? 

  The second part is, how much would I be looking at for then as return if/when I sell the house? Not much, I assume.

  Is there anyone out there with this sort of experience?

Signed,
  Newly-Poor Homeowner

[Stingray]

More than you think. My enclosed 10x20 porch probably cost $500-$600 in materials all told, though I didn't keep track of how much I spent.

-S

[screaming]

More than you think. My enclosed 10x20 porch probably cost $500-$600 in materials all told, though I didn't keep track of how much I spent.

  Is that with windows or just screens?  I think I want windows in mine..

-sab

[Stingray]

That was just screens. I did eventually buy plexigless for the winter. That was another $250ish.

-S

[Jabba]

I built a cedar deck. One section was 36'x x 10'. the other section was 24' x 8'. The structure was all pressure treated, while the surface and railing were cedar. All told, that came out to at least $3000 (CDN) with no labour costs.

I would imagine if you made the whole deck out of pressure treated wood, costs would run about 1/3 to 1/2 less.

No idea on the heated room. The floor will prolly need to be cement to keep the heat in.

[DrewKaree]

If it looks decent and appears as if it would be a valuable part of the house, you should recoup the cost if/when you sell it.  If it looks like ass or as if "the dude tacked it onto the house", it could end up COSTING you if/when you sell it.

Depends on the job you do.  It already sounds as if you are introducing problems into the mix by heating it, although you haven't really explained your skills at building/insulating/HVAC. 

Wood also will change in price by the time you build, so it may become pricier, it may become cheaper....the fake deck boards are REALLY pricey now, and will probably stay that way for a while, mebbe forever.  This could run you a grand or two, you haven't really nailed down enough things for people to help you out there.

[screaming]

  That was helpful guys..  Here's some more info.

  I'm still in the planning stage, really, so anything is open to change.  The existing deck ended up costing the seller of the house, so I'm aware how that works   It appears that when he put the deck on, he didn't put flashing against the house and just tacked the deck onto the outside of the house *through the plastic siding* so there's water seeping inbetween the deck and the wood of the house.

  Heating: I wasn't planning on heating the enclosed part specifically, rather I was just going to insulate it with standard fiberglas insulation and big insulated windows.  I would love to get a little outdoor portable wood stove in there, but I don't think it's possible if it's enclosed.  Can you get one of those things on a deck if there are bricks under and around it or would that be asking for trouble?

  Skilliz: I'm pretty handy, and I can read instructions and take suggestions and apply them well. I know some other people like that as well, so I don't think skills will be in short supply.

  Materials: What's the benefit of having a cedar deck? The smell?  I could make a little cubbyhole for my cigars   I was just planning on using the standard run-of-the-mill pressure-treated wood that everyone else uses for decks, but only because I didn't know there was anything else (except for that plastic recycled milk bottle stuff).  If there's anything better out there though, I'd like to know about it..

  Size/Construction:  The size I gave was purely an estimate of the current deck and how I'd like to make it bigger, which is to say, I would like to make it run alongside the house a little more, even extend to the master bedroom and add sliding doors in there.  That just might be a pipe dream though.  My house is a split-entry, but the bottom floor only goes about 4 feet into the ground.  The existing deck comes off the second floor kitchen area, and I can walk underneath the deck without (almost) bumping my head.

  Thanks again! I appreciate the help!

-sab
 

[Stingray]

 
  Heating: I wasn't planning on heating the enclosed part specifically, rather I was just going to insulate it with standard fiberglas insulation and big insulated windows.  I would love to get a little outdoor portable wood stove in there, but I don't think it's possible if it's enclosed.  Can you get one of those things on a deck if there are bricks under and around it or would that be asking for trouble?

   

I don't see how that would be any different than putting one in a house with a wood floor, but I'm no expert.

-S

[JDSkydiver]

OK...

Some free advice from an architect:

A)  Fireplaces are typically NOT on a wood floor.  Fireplaces sit on a foundation that goes to the ground.  The wood flooring/framing should be built around it.

B)  All fireplaces NEED to be vented.  (IE Chimney)  They are not a good idea in an enclosed room unless they have a chimney OR a pipe vent like the old wood burning pot/stoves.

C)  There are pre-manufactured fireplaces that are self contained that are VENTED (pipes that you can hide in walls) and with self-contained fire rated bases (so you don't need a stone/conc. base.)  HEATNGLO i(heatnglo.com) is an example of such a company (national).  There are others.  These are typically used in applications where there is no stone/conc base like on the second floor master bedroom that does not light up above the livingroom fireplace.

Just a few thoughts...

It (HEATING) can definatly be done.  I strongly reccomend a pre-fab fireplace.

JDSKYDIVER

[Stingray]

OK...

Some free advice from an architect:

A)  Fireplaces are typically NOT on a wood floor.  Fireplaces sit on a foundation that goes to the ground.  The wood flooring/framing should be built around it.

Shows what I know. So if I'm reading this correctly, the thing to do would be to pour a concrete slab where you intend to put the wood stove, and then build the deck around it?

-S

[Jabba]

[Zakk]

Recoup cost: Not likely, unless it brings up the entire value of the house.  General rule is: "If you built it strictly to up the value and sell the house, it can change the price, if you did it for yourself and for your enjoyment, then you shouldn't expect to recover the costs"

One thing, check your local bylaws.  Most municipalities require permits for large structures.  We have a loophole here that states you don't need a permit if the deck isn't connected to the house. If it IS, you need one.  And the "I just won't tell anyone about it" can backfire, since most cities use satellite photos and overlay maps.  On the website for our city for example, you can check out what your yard looked like back as far as 1998.  If there is ever a question about when a structure was built (but sir, it was there when I bought the house!!), they just look at that image. 

And dammit it's REAL estate, not Peale estate! 

[Jabba]

On the website for our city for example

Hey Zakk, what website is that? I've been searching the internet to get a picture of my property but none seem to exists. Kinda interesting your city has one of these. I tried the Microsoft TerraServer  http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ but it doesn't make its way up in Canada. I'm in Ottawa. Thanks.

[Zakk]

http://www.london.ca/_private/Maps/Maps.htm
Click on CITY MAP under the E-maps, then a map should pop up which you can zoom in and out of.  Now down the left side are all the options.  Near the bottom of the scroll window there is a box marked Aerial Photos and a date box.  Click that, then REDRAW MAP and then start moving around the map.  You have to be zoomed in fairly close to get any detail, but you can manually set the distance to 150 meters in the upper right corner, then click on an area.  This is how you can see pretty much anything that isn't covered.  I figure most cities would have something similar, although some of the time you have to go through city hall to access them. 

[GGKoul]

http://www.london.ca/_private/Maps/Maps.htm
Click on CITY MAP under the E-maps, then a map should pop up which you can zoom in and out of.

[screaming]

B)  All fireplaces NEED to be vented.  (IE Chimney)  They are not a good idea in an enclosed room unless they have a chimney OR a pipe vent like the old wood burning pot/stoves.

C)  There are pre-manufactured fireplaces that are self contained that are VENTED (pipes that you can hide in walls) and with self-contained fire rated bases (so you don't need a stone/conc. base.)  HEATNGLO i(heatnglo.com) is an example of such a company (national).  There are others.  These are typically used in applications where there is no stone/conc base like on the second floor master bedroom that does not light up above the livingroom fireplace.

  Wow! That's exactly what I was looking for regarding the fireplace/wood stove!  Thanks so much for the link; I'll check it out!  A free-standing wood stove that doesn't have any trouble being on the second floor deck is what I'm looking for, and it sounds like that's exactly what I would be getting.

  The website doesn't have any prices of course, do you have any idea how much these things cost?

-sab

[screaming]

If you are happy with the look of PT and no young kids, then go for the Pressure treated. Like I said, almost half the cost.

  Wow, thanks for the great rundown of the differences!  I think I'll stick with the PT stuff..   I'd rather the low maintenance aspect over the cedar smell.  Also, I don't know if I'd like that grey look.

Also, I do not think you will get the money back that you put in...BUT....It will make your house more appealing to the next buyer IF it is done correctly!

  I guess "correctly" is what I need to figure out   As long as it looks good and doesn't have stability problems and wont rot the wood of the house I think I should be ok!

BTW: Have you checked for rot where the other guy drilled holed through the siding? Hopefully not too bad.

  I haven't fully inspected it yet, but when I bought the house last October they inspecter I hired pointed it out to me. If it ends up being bad, how do I fix it?  I can't just tear the wood off the wise of the house and replace it, can I?

-sab

[screaming]

Recoup cost: Not likely, unless it brings up the entire value of the house.  General rule is: "If you built it strictly to up the value and sell the house, it can change the price, if you did it for yourself and for your enjoyment, then you shouldn't expect to recover the costs"

  That's good advice.. I'll definitly keep that in mind when planning this monstrocity.

-sab

[Jabba]

http://www.london.ca/_private/Maps/Maps.htm

Thanks!. I checked our local city website

[Jabba]

[Stingray]

And the "I just won't tell anyone about it" can backfire, since most cities use satellite photos and overlay maps.  On the website for our city for example, you can check out what your yard looked like back as far as 1998.  If there is ever a question about when a structure was built (but sir, it was there when I bought the house!!), they just look at that image.

I guess that's where the advantage to owning heavily wooded property comes in. I found this satelite pic of the five acres where my house is located:



On the right side you can just barely see the end of my driveway where it meets the road. Can't see the house at all.

-S

[Zakk]

You get a permit for that driveway!?!!?!? 

[JDSkydiver]

No, I'm not sure how much the fireplaces run.   The built in ones can be quite cheap though, and pretty much install like a shower unit would.  Just frame the opening and slide in.  The hook up the flue, etc.

One last thing:

Pressure Treated wood does have two other dissadvantages....

ONE - The latest studies show pressure treated wood can actually decay FASTER than untreated wood in some environemts, especially those with salt air like near coastlines.  The chemical react with the salt air and play MAJOR HAVOC with the nailing.

TWO - PT wood is NOT nice to walk on barefoot.  It tends to be VERY "splintery" (if that's a word).

Google search for other self contained fireplaces.  Home Depot & Lowes (etc. ) carry them, and from other manufacturers.

Good Luck!

JDSkydiver

[screaming]

Woah, that's some serious forestry!  It doesn't even look like you need to mow!

Jabba,  Thanks for the great info!  I'll take some pics and see how the (great) information you gave applies to me.  I'll update again!

-sab

[screaming]

Google search for other self contained fireplaces.  Home Depot & Lowes (etc. ) carry them, and from other manufacturers.

  So you think that just about any self contained fireplace would be okay on a bare second-level deck (no concrete slab, no bricks)?

-sab

[Stingray]

TWO - PT wood is NOT nice to walk on barefoot.  It tends to be VERY "splintery" (if that's a word).

Hmm, I find it to be less splintery (assuming that is indeed a word) than normal wood. My deck is so smooth it almost seems polished. I do give it a couple coats of Thompsons Water Seal once a year though, maybe that's what keeps it from splintering.

-S

[JDSkydiver]

RE: Home Depot Fire places:

Any major hardware store should sell pre-fab fireplaces.  They will be able to direct you as to which ones are for use without a stone/ fire rated base (as they have all walls and base fire rated within the unit).

Just ask them.   It's the types you would use in an upstairs application.  they'll help you out.

JDSkydiver

[JDSkydiver]

Oh, and as to "splintery" wood.. (no jokes please)

Yes, it seems smoother, but tends to become weather cracked/splintery over time.  Yes, I would guess your maintenace helps a llot with this though.

I would use it for framing/support members, but go with a different type of hardwood for the walking surfaces.

Again, ask the older guys at Home Depot and they should be able to direct you for your area.

And no, I do not work for HD, nor do I know anyone who does.  I just know what I don't really know, ya know?

JD

[Crazy Cooter]

First thing to do is call the city and speak with the building code official.  he'll tell you what you need and what your limitations are.  Then I'd go to Menards (or similar store) and look at the "kits" that they have.  Any type of wood burning fireplaces (and sometimes gas depending on local codes) require noncombustible flooring in a radius around the thing.  That's why you see tile in front of fireplaces.  The city will also tell you what you need for footings, how much a permit is going to be, etc.  The building inspector will want to come look at the holes you dig prior to pouring any concrete and will look at other stuff too.  Some cities actually require you to "submit" your plans so they can review them and tell you whether you can do it or not.

Of course if you live in the sticks, there probably isn't a building code official..