Author Topic: Why JAMMA? (Read 4919 times)

GameOver · « **on:** February 17, 2005, 11:06:41 pm »

I'm trying to understand the whole JAMMA thing. I get the concept, but sounds like you can only run one game at a time? Is this correct? Each time you want to play another game, you need to switch 'PCB's & start over? What's the draw?

Are these the legit arcade boards that are being used in these cabs or something? I don't get it...

Knievel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:47:27 pm »

JAMMA = Japanese Arcade Machine Manufacturers Association

Yes the draw is that these are the actual boards originally used in a lot of popular arcade machines...the games are the real deal.

D_Zoot · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:49:28 pm »

Yup,

tommy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:58:20 pm »

Jamma cabs and switching pcbs are for people who dont want to mame or dont know how to mame i guess you could even say there for beginners in arcading , i have pcbs and switch as i go , ive heard people on hear say preserve original cabs and art , but it seems nobody thinks of preserving or saving the real game boards

krick · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2005, 12:42:41 am »

Read this thread.

Apollo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:02:09 am »

Quote from: tommy on February 17, 2005, 11:58:20 pm

Jamma cabs and switching pcbs are for people who dont want to mame or dont know how to mame i guess you could even say there for beginners in arcading , i have pcbs and switch as i go , ive heard people on hear say preserve original cabs and art , but it seems nobody thinks of preserving or saving the real game boards

There are many, many people dedicated to preserving original game boards and whole forums and sites dedicated to just that.

tommy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:33:20 am »

Quote from: Apollo on February 18, 2005, 01:02:09 am

Quote from: tommy on February 17, 2005, 11:58:20 pm
Jamma cabs and switching pcbs are for people who dont want to mame or dont know how to mame

pointdablame · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:42:06 am »

Quote from: tommy on February 17, 2005, 11:58:20 pm

Jamma cabs and switching pcbs are for people who dont want to mame or dont know how to mame i guess you could even say there for beginners in arcading , i have pcbs and switch as i go , ive heard people on hear say preserve original cabs and art , but it seems nobody thinks of preserving or saving the real game boards

um.... what?

PCBs are not for beginners... its an entirely different type of person/mindset to collect PCBs... they are totally different than a MAME machine in many people's eyes. There are also a TON of people who preserve the original boards, not just the cabs... and that includes people here.

And why would swapping boards be for people who "can't mame" ? You can buy a JPAC an throw a computer with an arcadeVGA in it and its pretty much EXACTLY like swapping a board... there ya go... you've MAMEd

Goz · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2005, 09:29:11 am »

Quote from: tommy on February 17, 2005, 11:58:20 pm

Jamma cabs and switching pcbs are for people who dont want to mame or dont know how to mame i guess you could even say there for beginners in arcading , i have pcbs and switch as i go , ive heard people on hear say preserve original cabs and art , but it seems nobody thinks of preserving or saving the real game boards

Couldn't be further from the truth. As mentioned by another, Your statement for the most part is backwards. MAMER's are the beginning and as they evolve they will migrate to preservation. As an example, My first cab was a MAME/JAMMA (hardware work done in 20 mins).My second cab MAME from scratch including cabinet building. My third cab was a custom built cocktail cab (MAME), My fourth cab is a multi jamma gun game Police Trainer and Point Blank2 (using real PCB's and a 2 device JAMMA switch. My Fifth (currently working on) is a MAME / Multi JAMMA / NAOMI GDROM system w/ Clays MULTI JAMMA (up to 8 PCB's). If you were to poll most of the members of this board and KLOV forums that have been arround for a substantial period of time I believe this holds true as a generalized statement "Enthusiast start with MAME and progress towards PCB's and legit cab collecting / restoration"

-Goz

Stingray · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:49:50 am »

Quote from: Gozur on February 18, 2005, 09:29:11 am

If you were to poll most of the members of this board and KLOV forums that have been arround for a substantial period of time I believe this holds true as a generalized statement "Enthusiast start with MAME and progress towards PCB's and legit cab collecting / restoration"

I agree with this completely. It's certainly the way it worked in my case.

-S

RayB · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:02:22 am »

I started collecting PCBs before MAME ever existed, so *nyah*

SirPoonga · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:05:59 am »

Look around, this is not mamecabinet.com, it is arcadecontrols.com. Plenty of cabinets and stuff built around JAMMA and PCBs.

My next cabint (a cocktial) is going to be JAMMA so I can collect some vertical shooters. It's going to be a strictly vertical setup. I have my upright for horizontal.

tommy · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:16:12 pm »

Ok guys thats great your into pcbs ,but i got the feeling from you guys somehow by reading many postes about many subjects that you would rather have an arcade machine with many games on it(mame) unless its a classic cab worth money, i guess were i went wrong on my original post was i was speaking from my experience i dont want to mame and i like collecting pcbs and , im glad you guys spoke out in the name of the printed circut board

SirPoonga · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:21:31 pm »

Quote

i got the feeling from you guys somehow by reading many postes about many subjects that you would rather have an arcade machine with many games on it(mame)

Because that is why the majority of the people have come about building an arcade cabinet, because they found out about mame.

tommy · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:25:52 pm »

I said pcbs are for beginners because take a person who has never done anything with a arcade machine is it going to be harder for him to slide the jamma connector off and insert another pcb or is he going to go through all the trouble of setting up a mame cab

pointdablame · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:04:53 pm »

Quote from: tommy on February 18, 2005, 01:25:52 pm

I said pcbs are for beginners because take a person who has never done anything with a arcade machine is it going to be harder for him to slide the jamma connector off and insert another pcb or is he going to go through all the trouble of setting up a mame cab

The point is though... if you can set up MAME on a pc.. and you have a JPAC... you can build a mame cab in the EXACT way you just said.

JAMMA cab + JPAC + MAME PC = MAME cab in like 20 mins.

tommy · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:15:21 pm »

I dont want to get into a big thing about this , you have to know what your doing to wire all the hardware etc not to mention the software in a mame cab ,and for a beginner i believe it would be easyer to just swich pcbs on a jamma cab, thats the point i was making your assuming this person has all the knowledge to do anything he wants beginner is the key word here

tommy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:33:04 pm »

Whats the most common problem on this forum, how do i start my mame project, what do i need to get everything up and running , not how do i get this damn jamma connector off

pointdablame · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:55:45 pm »

Quote from: tommy on February 18, 2005, 02:15:21 pm

I dont want to get into a big thing about this , you have to know what your doing to wire all the hardware etc not to mention the software in a mame cab ,and for a beginner i believe it would be easyer to just swich pcbs on a jamma cab, thats the point i was making your assuming this person has all the knowledge to do anything he wants beginner is the key word here

You still don't understand what I'm saying. There is no hardware wiring in my example. If you have a standard JAMMA machine.... you can plug in a JPAC and it will automatically convert the already wired JAMMA controls to keyboard presses. You are essentially done at that point.

Yes, you need to know how to set up a PC to run MAME, but those skills and the skills to wire a cab are entirely different. I know a ton of people who got MAME running but could not wire controls without a bit of reading.

My point is.... you can set up a MAME machine just as easy as swapping PCBs.. and I'm not sure you understand that. I'm not talking about building a cab from scratch here.. you can swap these parts out at will.

RayB · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2005, 09:17:47 pm »

Really splitting hairs here.... I'm sure there are still people who eyes would glaze over when you mention what you need to do to MAME a JAMMA with a JPAC. You have to disable the cab's original power supply. You have to hook up the JPAC, you have to set up PC guts etc. Lot's of n00Bs are scared of all that. but swapping a JAMMA pCB? Even easier than what you're claiming is easy, Point.

tommy · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2005, 09:20:27 pm »

I thought thats what i said

Goz · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2005, 09:23:10 pm »

#9

-Goz

danny_galaga · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2005, 09:57:22 pm »

Quote from: tommy on February 18, 2005, 01:25:52 pm

I said pcbs are for beginners because

tommy · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:02:14 pm »

The only repairs ive run into is a bulb burnt out , what repairs are you speaking of, i havnt touch my machine in the way of repairs for many years

danny_galaga · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:18:54 pm »

i'm not speaking from experience but it seems to me there are always going to be things that need attention especially since some of these machines are getting quite old. PCB's themselves can stop working for instance- with a good chance that it will ahve to be sent away to a specialist, or the power supply, or monitors. nothing lasts for ever!!

BTW, i have two PCB's myself and can't wait until the day i can run them in my own homebuilt JAMMA cab- so don't think i'm saying having a cab with a PCB is not a good idea. i think it will rock! i'm just saying that surely the maintenance isn't as easy. fredster? paige? you guys have a bunch of machines. what are your experiences?

tommy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:26:58 pm »

Every thing i have is new, power supply ,monitor,cant really find a new pcb most times but ,mine are new enough and never had a problem( knock on wood ) also i dont have to worry about programs failing and this is not compatilbe with that and so on ,it works perfect every time theres no control problems i find it less of a headache

SirPoonga · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2005, 05:01:50 pm »

What fredster said that didn't pertain to mame killing the arcade industry

Quote

Why Jamma?

Now that you know it's just a standard wiring harness, the reason was simple. Back in '85 and '86 the arcade business was taking a nose dive. The early machines were wonderful proprietary creations that were unique. To work on a Midway, you had to train on Midway, or Atari, or whatever. You had to buy parts like you do for old cars.

Jamma made a standardized platform when the cab building business went to crap. Instead of paying $2000 + for a new game, you could take an old one and convert it for less than $1000. It was a move necessary to sustain the Arcade business.

Lots of classics bit the dust. They made their money and they were spent. Young punk kids for some reason wanted new games. Go figure.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #27 on:** February 24, 2005, 01:43:54 am »

Quote from: danny_galaga on February 18, 2005, 10:18:54 pm

BTW, i have two PCB's myself and can't wait until the day i can run them in my own homebuilt JAMMA cab- so don't think i'm saying having a cab with a PCB is not a good idea. i think it will rock! i'm just saying that surely the maintenance isn't as easy. fredster? paige? you guys have a bunch of machines. what are your experiences?

Jamma machines tend to be rock solid reliable IF they are wired properly, have a good power supply (if you just have one or two cabs then just buy new power supplies, one less thing to worry about), and have a good monitor.

Remember, in a JAMMA cabinet you can replace all that ancient wiring and power stuff, and most jamma boards have few or no large caps on them, so they age much better than classic boards. Most classics have so many problems because of aging capacitors and power supplies, which can entirely be avoided with a JAMMA cabinet.

For the record I still own a pair of JAMMA cabinets. A Super Neo 29 Candy (Japanese Sit-At Neo Geo currently Running Mr. Driller 2) and a Defender. The Defender is an original cabinet with new arcadeshop Multiwilliams pcb (JAMMA), new Multiwilliams control panel, new power supply and wiring from Bob Roberts and an older monitor that is still working very well.

I also find that I play my two Jamma cabinets more often than I play my Mame cabinets.

danny_galaga · « **Reply #28 on:** February 24, 2005, 05:42:15 am »

ah yes, i must admit i was bunching ALL pcb games together in my mind. looking at one of my jamma pcbs, it doesnt seem to have many electrolytics on it (which i assume are the most troublesome caps). i guess too, the chips are more modern too, so if something goes wrong with one they are more readily available...

Fat_Trucker · « **Reply #29 on:** February 24, 2005, 06:29:20 am »

I'm in the process of getting my first MAME cab together.

Like most noobs I have opted for a generic Jamma cab since its a good way to start learning about MAMEing without things getting too technical. It also allows me to make modifications to the cab design without having to build it from the ground up. Its a straightforward, gentle way to ease yourself into the hobby.

By using a J-Pac to MAME, I will still be left with a cab that I can easily switch back to its original format and use PCB's on.

As soon as this project is completed I will have (hopefully) learned a thing or two about MAMEing and cab design and wiring at which point I intend to build a dedicated cab from scratch.

At the end of the day regardless of whether you are MAMEing or just Gaming we all share a common appreciation of old arcade games and have an interest in preserving them in whatever format.

RayB · « **Reply #30 on:** February 24, 2005, 10:17:31 am »

I'm going for JAMMA for my cab (with a JPAC) but what I'm confused about is how to make it still work with JAMMA PCBs...

See I keep reading you need to remove (or not power) the arcade switching power supply, because A. You don't want power going to the JPAC, and B. The PC has its own power supply.

So what then, when i want to connect a JAMMA board in there... Seems like a pain in the butt to have to rewire the original power supply every time...

What do most people do in this situation?

Fat_Trucker · « **Reply #31 on:** February 24, 2005, 11:13:07 am »

I think (don't quote me) in most cases its a simple process of just disconnecting a connector from the unit?.

If you want to convert back I think you just plug it back in. I'm converting an Electrocoin Xenon and all the wiring going into the supply seems to be via these sorts of connectors.

If not it would probably be an easy job to cut the wires and install a connector in between for easy reconnnection, whatever sort of supply it is.

One thing I'm not sure of with mine is whether or not I need to leave the earth connected to the unit?. I don't know if it is dedicated for the power supply or if anything else is earthed through it. Will probably err on the side of caution and leave it seperately connected.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #32 on:** February 24, 2005, 11:15:46 am »

You can leave the original power supply wired, just wire it an on off switch. It needs to be OFF because the j-pac provides no load and a switching power supply run with no load will burn up eventually, some instantly, some later.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #33 on:** February 24, 2005, 04:58:41 pm »

Quote from: RayB on February 24, 2005, 10:17:31 am

I'm going for JAMMA for my cab (with a JPAC) but what I'm confused about is how to make it still work with JAMMA PCBs...

See I keep reading you need to remove (or not power) the arcade switching power supply, because A. You don't want power going to the JPAC, and B. The PC has its own power supply.

So what then, when i want to connect a JAMMA board in there... Seems like a pain in the butt to have to rewire the original power supply every time...

What do most people do in this situation?

Wouldn't a multijamma unit solve this problem?

RayB · « **Reply #34 on:** February 24, 2005, 05:27:48 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on February 24, 2005, 04:58:41 pm

Wouldn't a multijamma unit solve this problem?

Too expensive, and the arcade power supply would still be sending power when the multi-unit was switched to the J-PAC.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #35 on:** February 25, 2005, 08:35:48 am »

Quote from: RayB on February 24, 2005, 05:27:48 pm

Quote from: SirPoonga on February 24, 2005, 04:58:41 pm
Wouldn't a multijamma unit solve this problem?

Too expensive, and the arcade power supply would still be sending power when the multi-unit was switched to the J-PAC.

Multi-Jamma powers all boards at the same time, so yes it would solve that problem.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #36 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:24:36 pm »

I thought so, when I emailed the owner of multijamma years ago he said the jpac was tested and works well with it.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #37 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:26:48 pm »

Quote from: RayB on February 24, 2005, 10:17:31 am

See I keep reading you need to remove (or not power) the arcade switching power supply, because A. You don't want power going to the JPAC, and B. The PC has its own power supply.

Talk to Andy at ultimarc.com. Does he use the power pins for something? If not it won't hurt because the power goes no where.

krick · « **Reply #38 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:30:44 pm »

The power pins on the J-PAC aren't connected to anything.
Pics from my site...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #39 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:55:54 pm »

I woinder if there is something Andy could do with the jpac then to put load on those pins, just in case.


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