Italy 'to pull troops from Iraq'

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Sometimes, it sucks to be right.

March 4th:

I wouldn't be surprised, in the least, if the Italians pull their troops out over this. Public pressure will be great, as 6 in 10 Italians now think the war is wrong. Our useless press here in the states continually downplays the importance of this event in Europe, and the galvanizing effect it's having on sentiment towards the U.S.

Today:

Italy 'to pull troops from Iraq'




This news sucks. Our men and women will continue to be the target of daily attacks, and now they're losing support.

mrC


P.S. I haven't forgotten about the war yet Dartful. Although I bet *you* have.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,30674.msg259193.html#msg259193
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,30389.msg258334.html#msg258334

[ChadTower]

How many times does Italy have to pull their troops before their troops are pulled?  Am I wrong in my recollection that this is about the third time they've made that declaration?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I have never heard the Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi make this claim before. I'm apt to believe it.

Even if it isn't true - maybe it's political posturing for his constituency in Italy - is this really good for our troops morale?

mrC

[RetroJames]

We Italians always "SAY" we're gonna pull out.

[Dartful Dodger]

P.S. I haven't forgotten about the war yet Dartful. Although I bet *you* have.

I haven't forgotten how you manipulate stories to fight your wars.

It didn't help you win the election, but as long as you and your team are staying out of my way, keep up the good work.

[ChadTower]

is this really good for our troops morale?

Who DOES have our troops' morale at heart?  The Italian media?  Our media?  Anyone at all?  Everything that happens, no matter what, someone starts shouting "what about the troop morale".  It's the new nonPatriotism or "if you do that the terrorists win".

The troops get the short end of the stick in every way.  Using their morale as a way to fight a political battle is just bluster.

[Crazy Cooter]

There might be more to it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7193188/

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who confirmed he would seek re-election next year, alluded to the rising public discontent and said he had spoken with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, another strong Washington ally.

[DrewKaree]

"The shadow of Mohamad al-Amin mosque where late Prime Minister Rafiq
Hariri is buried is cast on hundreds of thousands of Lebanese demonstrators
who packed Martyrs Square in downtown Beirut. More than 800,000 people
poured into the heart of the city for an opposition demonstration demanding
an end to nearly three decades of Syrian military domination and to mark
the fourth week since Hariri was killed.

Oh, and now for something the AFP forgot to add to it's caption - Bush was right"

[ChadTower]

There might be more to it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7193188/

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who confirmed he would seek re-election next year, alluded to the rising public discontent and said he had spoken with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, another strong Washington ally.

[Dartful Dodger]

It's not plural, it's the reporter being unable to understand his Italian accent.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Oh, and now for something the AFP forgot to add to it's caption - Bush was right"

Right about *what* exactly?? 

Lebanon's Pro-Syrian Premier Reinstated

You want propaganda? I'll see your (or Glen Beck's) 800,000 anti-Syrian demonstrators, and I'll raise you 1.6 million PRO-SYRIAN demonstrators. These unsubstantiated numbers are just as "valid" as the unsubstantiated numbers you're trumpeting.



Every time Chimp-boy opens his mouth, the middle-east does the opposite. Same w/ Russia, same w/ Italy. Same with the rest of the world. What's your point again, Drew?

The truth is, no one knows what's going on over there, and irregardless, the events taking place have everything to do with the assassination of a beloved man, and *not* with Bush's ill-fated pre-emptive war in (No WMD) Iraq. As much as the Chickenhawks would love for that to be the case. Furthermore, it seems as those of you who support the war in Iraq are now in the minority in America.

Bush's approval ratings on Iraq:

AP/Ipsos poll. 3/7-9. MoE 3.1%

    Approve 45
    Disapprove 53

Gallup. 2/25-27. MoE 3%

    Approve 45
    Disapprove 53


The majority of Americans now agree with me. This war is folly.


mrC

[ChadTower]

Pizza is French.  Just because it has tomatoes doesn't make it Italian.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

P.S. I haven't forgotten about the war yet Dartful. Although I bet *you* have.

I haven't forgotten how you manipulate stories to fight your wars.

So now I'm powerful enough to manipulate the Italians into leaving Iraq? Sweeet. Next up, BRITAIN!!

P.S. Based on your theory that I'm somehow "manipulating" this story (did the Italians *not* just say they are leaving??), I'd gather that you think it's good for Bush's War "coalition" that people are leaving it in droves? Or maybe you care to explain further? Otherwise, your post is just another empty accusation...and an extremely hallow defense. Which is nothing new, really, since the majority of everything you drool out consists of "BUSH WON!!" (America Lost)

mrC

[Dartful Dodger]

Pizza is French.

[ChadTower]

I'm a kicka you ass for that.

[DrewKaree]

Public opinion in Italy is for them to pull out.  I wonder if it has ANYTHING to do with them negotiating with terrorists and SOMEHOW, the terrorists seem to keep picking on them   I'm suuure their government's actions have nothing to do with it.  Well, at least they'll have a regime change in Italy come election time.  Live by the poll, die by the poll.

Is there anything good that happens in the world that the U.S. is responsible for, or that happens to the U.S.?  There doesn't seem to be a single thing that happens in the world that you don't see a dark side to, and frankly, it worries me that you can't see a bright side.  Others here see it, while you choose to continue to see LOOK FOR "how this whole mess will eventually cave in on us".

The discussion of pizza toppings and who created the pizza is a better discussion within this thread (or any of your doom-and-gloom threads).  Try to lift your head up while walking along the street once in a while.  Looking  at the dog crap encrusted on the sidewalk or the gum wrappers and assorted crap that litters your street all the time, you'll NEVER see anything good in the world.  I'll give you a hint....that big blue thing....it's the sky!  I know, I know, you expected it to be a nice rose color.  That's just in your mind.

You're slowly killing yourself, dying from the inside out with your constant "the world is a dismal place" fetish, and as a sage movie man once said, "dyin' ain't much of a way to make a living, boy".  Make sure when you're rocking back and forth on the street corner muttering "damn government...and that BUSH gave me this rash on my bum"...make sure to hang a sign around your neck so we'll know it's you and can get you a warm blanket, a few spare tokens and lead you to a Space Invaders to "detox".

Good things are happening in the world, all over the world, and are happening because of the people, and what America is helping to show them can be done.  I figured I'd drop in this thread and shine a little ray of hope, since it'll never be brought up by you, and in fact, you call it "propoganda"

BTW, who decided to start with the moo-tsa-rrey-la for the pizza?  Is that a French thing too?  Why did the French burn so many pizzas?  Their oven timers only wave a white flag when they're done.  Careful Chad, Dartful's got those "Potatoes of Fury" you've heard about!....keep an eye on his 'tots!

[ChadTower]

and that BUSH gave me this rash on my bum

Dude, shhh, that actually happened to me once in college.  It took 7 weeks to get rid of the rash.

[GGKoul]

and that BUSH gave me this rash on my bum

Dude, shhh, that actually happened to me once in college.

[ChadTower]

You got a rash on your bum from BUSH?  What was she using, as strap on you were the catcher??

Dude, I know that visual excites you, but really, catch your composure long enough to type in a coherent sentence.

 

[danny_galaga]

We Italians always "SAY" we're gonna pull out.

thats the catholic way 

[fredster]

What was Bush right about exactly?

The war on Terror would be a long one.

He was right to take out Saddam.  He backed terrorists and enabled terrorists

Bush was right to ignore Arafat and stand by Israel.
Bush was right to support Israel in building thier wall.  It was 100% effective in stopping the war.

Bush broke up the middle east and has taken down a very dangerous belt of totalitarian systems.

Bush was right to ignore the groaning of the Europeans and follow through.

Lybia gave up their arms in fear.  Egypt is going to hold elections, Lebannon has kicked out Syria.  Bush has reshaped the Middle East.

Bush has been wrong on one big thing though. I'm very surprised that you haven't banged that drum.  It's his biggest weakness,  and that's here at home. We have Mexicans everywhere and nobody stopping them from comming in.  That's the biggest Scandal of the Bush administration.  If you want to hit him, don't hit him with the Middle East,that he has won, and won hands down.  Hit him here.  This border situation is way out of control. 

The boarders are open and our health care system is bankrupting itself, crime is rampant within these groups, and drugs are pouring in.  Jobs are being compromised and we are turning a blind eye.

I don't buy for one minute that American's won't do these jobs. Not one freaking minute.  The caveat is that Americans won't do these jobs for the money they want to pay.  It's bringing down the wages and quality of life for all Americans.  If they can't hire somebody for $5 then they have to pay them $10 to keep them. The issue is we want cheap food and services, and we are basically using cheap labor.  It's not the corporation's fault, it's the people's fault for not demanding these people be gone. It's a national disgrace.

Come up with a democrat that says he will enforce the immagration laws and kick out the foreigners that are here illegally MrC and I will join your group.

[ChadTower]

Illegal immigration is our country's #1 problem, hands down.  I agree with that.

Bush may have reshaped the Middle East and 'won', but I personally don't think it was worth the cost to us.  I didn't and continue to not give a crap about the Middle East so long as it stays in the Middle East.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

What was Bush right about exactly?

I love how you Bush supporters fall over yourselves giving credit to your Dear Leader for things that have absolutely no causal link to ANYTHING Bush has done, yet you are loath to take responsibility for the things that go wrong as a direct response to the decisions (or lack thereof) Bush has made. (Ie: Raided munitions dumps, raided manufacturing plants, NO WMD, torture, 9-11 warnings, HUGE deficits, attempt to dismantle social security, job loss, less global allies, unsecured ports, no Osama Bin Laden, and on and on)

You can't have it both ways.

The war on Terror would be a long one.

This is *far* from being over. How many years was it between attacks on the trade towers? (1993 - 2001) Who was responsible for planning and carrying out the attacks? 1993 - Ramzi Yousef [CAPTURED] / 2001 - Osama Bin Laden [STILL FREE]

Clinton got the bad guys who attacked us, your man doesn't care anymore about the man who killed 3000+ Americans.

He was right to take out Saddam.  He backed terrorists and enabled terrorists

Never proven. More ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. Osama hated Saddam...had nothing to do w/ 9-11.

Bush was right to ignore Arafat and stand by Israel.

Bush ignored the whole issue, because he is an idiot. Arafat died, had nothing to do with Bush.

Bush was right to support Israel in building thier wall.  It was 100% effective in stopping the war.

Are you kidding me? It hasn't stopped anything, there has been plenty of attacks since. The relative calm lately is due to recent negotiations, brought about by the new Palestinian leaders.

Bush broke up the middle east and has taken down a very dangerous belt of totalitarian systems.

NO CAUSAL LINK TO IRAQ, YOU FOOLS!

Bush was right to ignore the groaning of the Europeans and follow through.

Until we need them, that is.

Lybia gave up their arms in fear.  Egypt is going to hold elections, Lebannon has kicked out Syria.  Bush has reshaped the Middle East.

Again, NO CAUSAL LINK TO IRAQ, YOU FOOLS! (Maybe I need to get a bigger font)



mrC

[ChadTower]

Things don't always have to have a causal link in order to be part of a coherent plan.  Just taking into account the likelihood of an occurrence and accounting for it is part of any type of stretegic planning.

Bush may not have caused those things, but it does seem as though those things were accounted for and loosely planned around.

Of course, it could well be taken into account after the fact as well.

I hate the whole thing at this point.  Screaming about Bush this and Bush that only makes things worse.  Bush is not a good president.  Can you suggest someone better who actually wants the freakin' job?

[Dartful Dodger]

Bush is not a good president.

Bush is a great president.  He may even be the best president.

Mr C even though he is the greatest president you can relax President Bush will not be running again in 2008.

[ChadTower]

If Bush were even a competent president he wouldn't be totally ignoring the domestic problems.  While his SS ideas are nice they stand a less than zero chance of being passed.  So long as there is so much as a reasonable minority of Democrats in power the gov't will never take its hand out of our pocket and allow us to use a small portion of our currently withheld money as we ourselves see fit.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Can you suggest someone better who actually wants the freakin' job?

At this point, I wish I knew of somebody that I could have complete confidence in. However, even though I feel Kerry would have done a far better job balancing the multitude of responsibilities that running this nation entails (both foreign and domestic)...I was always unsure if Bush hadn't screwed things up so badly his first term that they'd simply be "unfixable" and the Rethugs would convieniently blame Kerry for everything, just like they STILL do with Clinton.

I like Howard Dean, but the rest of the timid sheep in this country think he's crazy. I know people in Vermont, that have links to him personally...so I've got some insight into the man behing the "politician"...and all I can say is that he's exactly the kind of man we need right now in the DNC. This country isn't ready for him to be president, he would have had a next to impossible task of defending himself constantly against the media portrait of him and the reality. So 2008, I don't so him as a contender. That's the only thing the Republicans are good at...destroying others with blatant propoganda and outright lies. (ie: Swift Boat Liars)

Not sure if Hillary could be succesful in debunking the Republican propoganda machine either, although she's winning over some Republican support in New York. Is this country even ready for a women President? Not sure.

My gut tells me that with Dean infusing some backbone into the Democratic party, Obama helping them speak more clearly, and Henry Reid helping keeping them focused, we may have some new, fresh challengers emerge in 2008. Maybe even a dark horse "Bill Clinton Type", that nobody has their eyes on right now. Either way, I'm glad Chimp-boy will be gone, hopefully shamed back into his fake "No Cattle" ranch in Texas where he can snort enough coke to melt his failures away.

Even so, after 8 years of Bush and his party of "no ethics" ("Hot Tub" Tom DeLay) , "no accountability" (Condi, Rumsfeld, Cheney), and "no mistakes" (Bush himself)...I'm not sure anyone can dig our country out of the tremendous hole he has put us in with his arrogant defiance against the rest of the world, and his domestic irresponsibility with our economy.

Even *IF* a person is dense enough to think that the Iraq War is over, and the War on Terror has been won....we're still stuck with the $445 billion dollar bill for repairs. We are in the middle of the largest deficit our nation has ever seen. I'm angry because Bush's policies will negatively effect us all, very directly, yet 52% of the country is too stubborn to admit it. Our children's children will be paying for this folly for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we see another Great Depression in my lifetime.

So far the only people I see that don't care about this are the rich white folk, who are swimming in their tax cuts, and the elderly old Republican folk who'll be dead anyhow, so they don't seem to care.

The rest of us, will be stuck paying for these horrible decisions for ever. Irregardless of whether they have purple fingers in Baghdad or not. Where is all this cheap gas we were promised? Oil prices are the highest they've ever been.

I'm ready for the second revolution...I'd lay down my life in a second. It's getting to the point where I feel that THAT may be the only way to fix this country for good. Thank goodness the wingnuts have made it easier for me to buy guns.

mrC

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm ready for the second revolution...I'd lay down my life in a second. It's getting to the point where I feel that THAT may be the only way to fix this country for good.

You

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I'm ready for the second revolution...I'd lay down my life in a second. It's getting to the point where I feel that THAT may be the only way to fix this country for good.

You

[Crazy Cooter]

I don't think I would call Bush a great President.  His "solution" to everything has been a combination of two things: Money & Muscle.  Anyone could do that.  He has no finesse, no empathy, no thought about the future, no thought about the past.  He only sees what's right in front of him and either throws money, muscle, or a combination of the two at the problem.  To me, that's not a great President.  A great President would consider the impact of what he is doing on future generations.

[Dartful Dodger]

Your responses are the most ignorant, debased screeds, consisting of nothing but weak taunts and silly diatribes.

It's just more projection.

These are the reasons I've been ignoring your posts.

Have you forgotten?

You invited me to play in this thread.

P.S. I haven't forgotten about the war yet Dartful. Although I bet *you* have.

Don't worry I won't belittle you anymore. This thread bores me.

Good day sir.






I said good day.

[ChadTower]

At this point, I wish I knew of somebody that I could have complete confidence in.

For the record, I did read the whole post.

I hear Mitt Romney is considering a run in 2008.

[GGKoul]

Bush is not a good president.

Bush is a great president.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

At this point, I wish I knew of somebody that I could have complete confidence in.

For the record, I did read the whole post.

I hear Mitt Romney is considering a run in 2008.

Yeah. Heard that too. Not sure how viable he is, but I'm sure he'll milk the "I'm the man who saved the Olympics!" angle for all it's worth. Has he really done all that much for Mass?? Other than paying Professor William Bulger off into retirement, so he (Mitt) could bask in the positive press? He's not even physically *in* Mass. half the time and beating Jane Swift wasn't really all that much of an accomplishment.

He's also pro-choice, pro-gay partnerships, and Mormon, so as a Republican, that'll be hard for Bush's minions to swallow. Same for McCain, minus the Mormon bit.

I'm starting to think I'd rather have Schwarzenegger run (though I don't see this as a possibility), since if the Democrats can't get it together by 2008, I'd at least be able to stomach Arnold's common-sense approach to most issues, even though I disagree with some of the things he says. He also has a Kennedy to help keep his head straight.

PLUS, I'd certainly get a tremendous kick out of the surreal experience created by hearing the "Presidentinator" talk about going after the "evil-doers."  Asta la Vista Al Qaeda!!

mrC

[ChadTower]

After all of the half assed and/or left early Governors we've had, Romney has actually done an excellent job.  He's slowly turning the state's finances around.  A lesser Governor would never have been able to even tread water with the chaos that was MA gov't before he was elected.  Between the Big Dig and the horrifically corrupt Turnpike authority it's amazing he's been able to do what has been done so far.  The gov't of this state has been so corrupt for so long that we really needed a stable voice of reason at the top.

[DrewKaree]

Good day sir.






I said good day.

Fez, I like your style

Since our oil prices are skyrocketing and Bush is making such a mess of everything and pissing off the world, I have absolutely no fear that our oil prices will in fact plummet soon when we start going about the business of what we went to Iraq for in the first place:  Stealing their oil.  All that oil with our troops there to protect the blatant theft we surely are about to engage in?  It's folly to think our gas prices will skyrocket with a plan like that.

I said good day! (that's a great line!)

[DrewKaree]

Oh my goodness, stop the presses, MrC was right yet again, only this time, it's the U.S. that is pulling out and not supporting it's troops

Let me guess.  Somehow, Italy will be considered the catalyst to the Bush administration ending its "futile" efforts, or some other such nonsense.