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Stunt Cycle CPU - emulation?
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: Kremmit on February 07, 2005, 12:42:45 pm ---Pong and GP could well be the only ones; I've never researched that.
--- End quote ---
Actually, they removed a bunch of gambling games (Champion Skill, Pontoon, and Golden Star) at the same time, presumably b/c they were games of chance and not games of skill.
Here's the official quotes courtesy of the PatchMAME site:
Pong & Monaco:
Why was this game removed from MAME ?
Quote from Nicola Salmoria:
" Pong, which at this point was too much of a simulation and too little of an emulation. It didn't really fit into MAME's architecture which is CPU-based and targeted at accurately reproducing the gameplay of the original."
This game doesn't require ROMs.
Why was MONACO GP removed from MAME ?
Same reason as above. Simulation of electrical circuits is not really emulation.
Why these games were removed...
"Some time ago I (Nicola) mistakenly removed Lotto Fun because I thought it was a gambling machine. After some more careful evaluation, it is evident that this is a game of skill, therefore it is now supported again. This was my mistake and I apologize for that.
As a reminder, the exclusion of gambling machines is purely technical, not moral or legal. Gambling machines are not video games, and just like MAME doesn't support mechanical pinballs (but it supports software pinballs), it also doesn't support gambling machines (but it supports games with a gambling theme). Both mechanical pinballs and gambling machines can be found in the same places where video games are; this doesn't make them all the same thing. The distinction between gambling machines and video games is not arbitrary: gambling machines usually require more money to play than a video game (e.g. 10 tokens to start), and they have settings that allow the operator to decide how much of the money that comes in should come out. No amount of skill can improve a player's chances of winning: this is entirely predetermined by the machine."
***
I think they might not allow redemption games b/c of the same logic. Wish they'd come up with something similar for the mahjong and pron games, but I digress . . .
--- Quote ---
I thought I read somewhere that they had decided not to do games that were straight logic,
--- End quote ---
Well, the Monaco GP explanation above kinda implies that, but I'm not sure if that was official or added by patchmame, the official story was that it was simulation.
--- Quote --- but I'd never heard the "keep Atari happy" story before- interesting.
--- End quote ---
I don't know that I have OFFICIALLY. But then again, no one ever says "This is why we're claiming that we're doing this, and this is the real reason we're doing it."
--- Quote ---However, the way I see it, if they had only pulled them because "They did not emulate all the flip-flops and nand gates on the original board.", then I would think it would have made more sense to just emulate the missing circuits, or mark the games as not-working, or working with problems, instead of pulling them entirely.
--- End quote ---
You're missing the point, it's a totally different approach. There's probably thousands of transistor circuits to emulate to have it work properly, it would be tough to do and get right. OTOH, If I want to say "The road runs here, so I need these pixels gray, then a pink car runs along it, and orange cars come by at this speed, that's a lot easier.
Poor example - Say I want to build a card reader to read the magnetic strip off of your credit card and I have your card number. It's much easier to build a machine that sends 5417 XXXX YYYYY 8072 when ANY card is passed through than it is to make the machine read the actual card and get the number. If your card is the only one to be read, the machine works fine.
--- Quote ---So it seems likely that they are not planning on doing logic simulations/emulations any more, regardless of whether that's their own decision about what MAME does and does not do, or just due to Atari's complaint.
--- End quote ---
Again, I wouldn't say this for sure, and if they don't want to do it in MAME, they could do it in MESS (some of the same devs work on both). But I don't know for sure what their feelings are.
Dav:
Pong was a simulation, it was shown to be inacurate with no hope of salvaging it. The discrete logic games will be emulated in mame eventually. They have a clock just like cpu games and bits that are 0 or 1, the only problem is speed. I did a test emulator of kee's tank and with just a couple of circuits it turned into a very slow slide show. IIrc all I was showing was the minefield. Something most people don't think about is the resolution. It's double the size of a standard res monitor, so 4X the pixels. And for every pixel you have to calculate every circuit. 5 years down the road it may not be that big a deal.
Kremmit:
--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 07, 2005, 01:37:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: Kremmit on February 07, 2005, 12:42:45 pm ---
However, the way I see it, if they had only pulled them because "They did not emulate all the flip-flops and nand gates on the original board.", then I would think it would have made more sense to just emulate the missing circuits, or mark the games as not-working, or working with problems, instead of pulling them entirely.
--- End quote ---
You're missing the point, it's a totally different approach. There's probably thousands of transistor circuits to emulate to have it work properly, it would be tough to do and get right. OTOH, If I want to say "The road runs here, so I need these pixels gray, then a pink car runs along it, and orange cars come by at this speed, that's a lot easier.
Poor example - Say I want to build a card reader to read the magnetic strip off of your credit card and I have your card number. It's much easier to build a machine that sends 5417 XXXX YYYYY 8072 when ANY card is passed through than it is to make the machine read the actual card and get the number. If your card is the only one to be read, the machine works fine.
--- End quote ---
Aha, I gotcha- the game wasn't just incompletely emulated and patched to work- it was closer to being a look-alike that they had coded in. Not exactly, I understand, but that was the arguement for removal instead of just fixed/finished/marked not-working.
DreamWeb:
Mmm.! Good times! I programmed a "Stunt Cycle" game in Basic back on my Pc Jr. Actually, I didn't PROGRAM it.. I typed the code in from a magazine that I had borrowed from the library! ;)
If I remember correctly.. it didn't completely work right! Haha.
d.
TheGatesofBill:
--- Quote from: D_Zoot on February 05, 2005, 10:34:49 am ---Actually, somebody started doing this awhile ago, but I don't think the project was ever finished and the web site is gone now, so I don't know what happened to the project.
--- End quote ---
Yay Internet Archive! http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bridge/2886/ (pick a date)
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