Computer programing???

[Shape D.]

Anyone know of a good book, tutorial, program or (insert other various thing here) to learn computer programming. any help will be appreciated. thank you.

[sasuke_kun12]

what type? c++ or visual basic?

[Shape D.]

what type? c++ or visual basic?

Thats a great question, I would prefer one that would work for foolish nOOb's that dont understand your question.

AKA ---> I don't know what I'm doing.

[whammoed]

What do you need to accomplish?

[Shape D.]

I want to create a juke box program that uses a touch screen because I dont really like any of the ones i've used out there. they tend to have poor interfaces or not enough options on them. I would like to create as good of a program as possible for it but know nothing about programming, but i'm willing to learn and tend to pick things up quickly.

[clanggedin]

Turbo Pascal is the progam for you. or Assembly 

[lokki]

I want to create a juke box program that uses a touch screen because I dont really like any of the ones i've used out there. they tend to have poor interfaces or not enough options on them. I would like to create as good of a program as possible for it but know nothing about programming, but i'm willing to learn and tend to pick things up quickly.

If what you are doing requires a lot of GUI development, I would look at some of the visual Lanaguages out there.

C#, VB.net, Visual basic or Delphi. (I really like delphi, but don't get to use it at work :-(

If you try to do these things on C++ you will only get frustrated. (visual C++ is not a good choice too confusing for beggining programmers to try and learn MFC).

[SirPoonga]

If you try to do these things on C++ you will only get frustrated. (visual C++ is not a good choice too confusing for beggining programmers to try and learn MFC).

Atually, should be fine.  You don't want to start out on MFC, but you can use VC++ to do ANSI C++.

But to make a jukebox program you will want something that is good with graphics.  Good suggestions already given.  If you feel adventurous you can start learning DirectX or SDL graphics programming

Here's a good place to start.
http://www.programmingtutorials.com/

[Bones]

Turbo Pascal is the progam for you. or Assembly

[lucindrea]

Turbo Pascal is the progam for you. or Assembly 

ok your just evil - sending a newbie coder off into assm hell is just plain wrong ( although it does give a good idea of all the processes a cpu really does every second )

c++ is the defacto standard , learn that and you basicly lcan learn anything else , although those of us who acctully DID learn on pascal or assm , learning C is even eaiser.

If your just going for a GUI , visual basic may be eaiser , you can whip up a interface in almost no time at all , and thats not even useing the "wizards" that come with the compiler.

[Pacific Ripper]

VB is cool but the .net version is kinda confusing to me. Anyways, here's a URL to the basics of it. http://www.vbtutor.net/vbtutor.html

[Minwah]

VB6 is a good starter IMO.  You can achieve some pretty impression stuff contrary to what some people think.  DirectX is pretty easy to get into once you've got a good understanding of VB itself.

If you want to learn to code not just for the jukebox program but progress onto other things also, you can't go wrong with a C variant (but it will be harder to learn).

My problem is that as I code in VB, I have never had the motivation to go onto C (I did a little at college but nothing much).  I almost wish I had gone straight into C...

The mention of assembly reminded me of the (buggy) mouse controlled breakout clone I made at college (the only thing I have ever done in assembly really).  I wrote it on a crappy 286 with black+white screen that I had at the time - I took it to college and put it on the almighty 486's (!) and it was so quick you could barely see the ball (block) !!

[thrash242]

First you should pick a language.  Python is very good and quite simple.  Delphi is fairly simple and allows you to lay out GUI forms visually.  Delphi is based on Pascal, which is a pretty simple language that was actually designed as a teaching tool.  There's Visual Basic, but I've never used it, so I can't comment.  From what I understand, it's fairly easy to use.

Keep in mind that for some languages of the propreitary variety (Delphi, Visual Basic, etc) you'll probably have to buy a compiler/IDE.  Python is free and you can get about 50 kinds of C/C++ compilers for free.

C/C++ is kind of the standard, but there are easier languages to learn.  If you intend to really get into programming rather than just throw together one project, it would be worth your while to learn.

O'reilly books are excellent, IMO.  They're the ones with animals on the covers.

And assembly isn't really hard, but it can be tedious and it requires you to think like a computer (which comes pretty easily to me).  But then I've been programming since I was about 10. *shrug*  It would not really be suitable for what you want to do, so don't bother with it for now.  I think it was mentioned as a joke. 

I've never done anything like what you're wanting to do, but if you just want to learn some programming, buying "Learning Python" and DLing python from python.org would be a good choice, I think.  It's a very productive language.  Python can be easily integrated with C/C++ as well.

[locash]

I'll second python.  Its easy to learn, free, and has a lot of GUI options.  You can find out nearly everything you need to know on the web.

Intro to python

[lucindrea]

well if you want to talk simple learning lang's ... perl comes to mind , and you can even do usefull stuff with it ( mainly search and replace "this line" with "this line" for 100's of files at a time , write an e-mail client , etc  )

[Howard_Casto]

My 2 cents... pick an official microsoft language.  Why?  Because people actually use them and thus there is a lot of example code and online tutorials to be found.  Don't bother with python, java perl or any of that junk as the syntax is either exteremly proprietary, or basically just the same as c++, in which case you should learn c++ as it's more popular. 

Vb6 and delphi are good choices.  Delphi isn't exactly a m$ language, but it's very windows friendly, and the other third-party languages mentioned aren't.  C isn't a good beginners language, it's too complicated and requires too much setup (what with headers and all). It is the industry standard, but if you learn any good langauge you can easily learn another. It's more important that you learn how to code and how to take advantage of the windows api set.  After that, it's all gravy. 

Also on a final note.... I think, as a hobby at least, anything more complicated than vb is over-kill. I'm professionally trained, and still all of my projects are in vb.  I use it because it's quick and very forgiving in terms of bad code.  This makes for rapid, and more importantly, fun development. 

And I can't stress this enough.  Whatever you use, avoid any of the .net languages like the plague!!!  M$ managed to take 10 years worth of reliable programming tools and ruin them with a single release.  It's bloated, they ruined the form building tools and it is all around more complicated to learn and use. 

As for books, I honestly don't think they help.  I took several programming courses in college, but I really ended up learning how to code ueful stuff when I started writing my first fe.  Online sites and a problem needing solved (in terms of software) are really the best way to learn. 

[Trimoor]

Ack, no!  Stay as far away as M$ as possible!
Start off with C or python, but never M$ C or VB.

Make sure you write solid code that doesn't use windows dependent dlls.
Some people like to use real operating systems.

If you write solid code, it can be ported to almost any OS you want, even your vile inferior OSes.

If you get into the habit of using M$ stuff, you will be in their clutch forever.

[Hurray Banana]

My thoughts.

For a newbie I'd go for VB.Net if you can get hold of a copy.

It's what I teach on my programming courses at college. It's quite easy to pick up the basics. You'll need to put in effort to really understand core programming concepts.

Good books Sams 24 hour books aren't bad to get you started then you'll probably find that the Wrox books contain a lot more depth and explanation (but don't start with one)

[lucindrea]

i think it comes down to what you want to do , if your just making little apps for use on your standard user end system , the vb is fine .. if you want to go into more comlex stuff like gameing etc then C/C++ , if your working with large servers and need "helper" apps and scripts then delphi , perl , etc ....
and if you want to spend 3 months making a program that will do somthing in the most effeciant and fastest way but basicly not do anything more complex than a bubble sort , then go asm 

and being that i have been writing stuff for the past 26years ( only 12 professionaly ) i do tend to run away from any crap that M$ puts out (dot net is just the latest , look at j++ or any of their other ventures ).

to me VB is like cooking a frozen meal in a microwave and saying you know how to cook, it gets the job done , but it's got so meny additives it's not healthy food , you can live on it , but i wouldnt recomend it.

[Hurray Banana]

We are talking about someone who want's to learn to program.

Use the VB to get the concepts once you understand the mechanics of general programming then you can move to whatever language the job you want to do requires.

I've been programming for over 20 years so what. I've had to use over 20 different languages from poking opcodes using hex editor, to coding shite in vb6 in excel. In the end the language your working with doesn't matter if you've got the fundamentals down first. But you're better off starting with something easy when you first learn those fundamentals.

I wouldn't recommend staying with VB. Net I meant it as an introduction, then move on. C++ or J++ aren't beginners languages.

I started with BBC basic and moved to 6502 assembler once I got my confidence.

[Trimoor]

You might consider java script for beginner's programming.  You don't need to install any IDEs or compilers, just put it in a HTML file and open it in a browser.  One of it's main functions on the web is custom GUIs.

I've had over 30 minutes experience in programming, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Just remember: if you program in a M$ language, you can never use that program on anything other than a windows OS.  You are contributing to the monopoly.

[thrash242]

My 2 cents... pick an official microsoft language.  Why?  Because people actually use them and thus there is a lot of example code and online tutorials to be found.  Don't bother with python, java perl or any of that junk as the syntax is either exteremly proprietary, or basically just the same as c++, in which case you should learn c++ as it's more popular. 

WTF are you talking about?  MS languages aren't proprietary?!?  Python is certainly not junk as is *very* widely used and extremely useful.  Python is not proprietary as you can go get its source as freely as you can get Python itself.  And it's definately not just like C++.

You sound like you're completely ignorant to anything but MS compilers (which I wouldn't use unless my life depended on it).  Why such a MS fanboy, do you work for them?

I don't want to get into a language holy-war, but I felt I had to refute such a spewing of ignorance (IMO).  That and you called one of my favorite languages (and I know a fair number) junk.

[Bones]

Why hasn't anyone suggested TI Extended Basic? Now there is a language to learn...........

[lucindrea]

10 print "this machine sucks"
20 goto 10

ah the memories of confusing the hell out of the sales guys in k-mart 

[SOAPboy]

Id suggest Visual Basic first..

real easy, and gets you in that code frame of mind.

[jf1288]

You might consider java script for beginner's programming.  You don't need to install any IDEs or compilers, just put it in a HTML file and open it in a browser.  One of it's main functions on the web is custom GUIs.

I've had over 30 minutes experience in programming, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Just remember: if you program in a M$ language, you can never use that program on anything other than a windows OS.  You are contributing to the monopoly.

I actually started with PHP and couldn't have been happier.

[Hurray Banana]

Yes maybe a scripting language is the way to start.

You can pick up the basics in javascript and then move over to creating object orientated javascript. Before attempting C++ or Java.

[Bones]

I love BASIC.

You ain

[jbox]

Ah, the software wars. This must be what it's like to have a preference for cars, or sports teams right?  Here are the questions you should ask yourself:

Q1:
Are you willing to pay? For books? For licenses? For tutoring? How much? 

Q2:
Is this the only thing you are really going to do? Or do you harbour a hidden desire to discover the true Black Arts(tm) of software?   

Q3:
Is there *ANY* chance that you will *EVER* want to make *ANY* changes to this program in the future? 

Q4:
How much time do you have to spend on this?   

Q5:
What is the targeted platform? Do you want this program to run three years from now? 

Q6:
If you wanted to know how to build a car would you ask the guy on the production line how he puts them together? 

These are the questions you need to answer, and in that order. The language you pick should reflect that, not some arbitrary choice or preference you picked up from someone here. Like cars, there are a lot of choices which have a lot in common, and a lot of differences.

That's the facts part, now I'll add my *opinion* too: 

1+2. I *don't* agree that "if you know one language you know them all", anyone who wants to argue that point should PM me a breadth-first-search method in Miranda and Prolog (or another functional and logic language), at which point DA GAME WILL BE ON!     Speaking from my experiences, it can be very hard for some students to learn the object oriented approach once they have locked themselves into a static mindset. If you are going to do more programming, it will be worth big dividends spending time at the start learning what OO means before you waste time picking any particular OO language.

3. It is harder to *read* code than *write* code, even your own code. Even 6 months later you will find yourself looking at files wondering "why does this call method X again?" And don't even think you can make "one little change" without everything breaking.  That goes double for any 'hacking language'. It is a good idea to plan before you start. Actually plan. Like actual paragraphs of writing. Like on paper. Like with a pen too if you have one.    If you pick up the jigsaw and screwdriver and start cutting randomly what will you get?

5. Remember, most platforms have an active shelf life of about 3 years tops, after which point you don't want to have to re-write everything because you used some Super-Dooper API(tm) to (supposedly) make your life easier. Repeat after me: "INTERNATIONAL STANDARDISATION".  And forget about this "fast code" myth, unless you are actually building something for an embedded microprocessor your PC will have plenty of cycles whatever language you pick, so pick for design and maintence, not "speed". I would happily give up 1s every time my OS booted up if it meant it had 1% fewer bugs. Waste your time reading math books if you want to find better algorithms. Occassionaly even I learn something new! 

1+6. I know some 3l33t hakerz, and I know some people who write VB scripts to "get the job done", I know people who write tiny little 10,000 line applications and think they are god's gift to programming. No book, no website, no email buddy can compare to actually learning from somebody who knows about actual software engineering. You will be much better off to try to and find someone nearby who has taught problem solving with computers for a half-dozen years and sit down with them and just talk about what you want to get done. Failing that just sneak into the lecture theatre twice a week, lecturers don't get paid enough to care if you're supposed to be there as long as you are quiet.

Lastly, don't be afraid to post your code because you think people will bag you for it. It's a fantastic way to help simplify things and clean up comments that are absolutely useless. And after all, lucindrea here even admitted they still program in Assembly! That's like, y'know, what Babbage programmed in! 

[Hurray Banana]

Talking about Miranda and prolog wasn't what I was refering to when I said once you get the basics you can move onto any language.

I was refering to the procedural family of programming languages. I hardly think any newbie is going to want to go anyway near declarative languages, as these are not really for general problem or system solving. I agree they are completely different mindsets

[Shape D.]

Thanks everyone I will go with VB for now and see what I can learn form it and what I can come up with.

[jbox]

I was refering to the procedural family of programming languages. I hardly think any newbie is going to want to go anyway near declarative languages, as these are not really for general problem or system solving. I agree they are completely different mindsets

Yeah, that's true. After all stealthy side-effects, pointer arithmatic, direct heap/stack manipulation, out-of-bounds array accessing and manual garbage collection are the sort of thing all my first year students want to be doing when they start their degree.    I will however still stand by my claim that going from OO -> static is easier than going from static -> OO from a teaching point of view.

But seriously though, if there is actually code you can get your hands on for that brand of touch screen then Shape D is probably better off working from there, since that would presumably reduce the amount of low-level work needed to get a program up and running.

Shape D - Do you have any details on the hardware you are going to be using?