Need car advice...

[ChadTower]

Okay, this SUCKS.

Last night my wife's car dies, I have to go pick them up on the highway (wife and two small kids).  Had the car towed to the Subaru dealership.  It's a 97 Legacy Outback wagon, 95k miles.  We bought it at 75k miles from another dealer.  Since then, we have had the clutch transfer done ($1500), brakes ($300), and new front tires when the alignment went out of whack suddenly and we didn't notice ($250).

I get a call from the dealership this morning, they're saying head gasket, cylinders full of coolant, needs new gasket and short block, compression redone, etc etc.  The estimate is $4500.

I am guessing since I don't have the exact number, but I'm thinking we still owe Compass Bank about $6-7k for this car.

Blue Book puts the tradein, IF FIXED, at around $4500, and the private sale, IF FIXED, at around $6500 (which means around $5800 really).

I know some about cars but I'm far from an expert.  The service guy at the dealer just keeps saying "expansion and contraction, sometimes they just die".  At 95000 miles on a subaru?!

I need advice and a serious antacid.

[stevejt]

I am guessing that if you want to keep the vehicle, you could save alot by getting an entire rebuilt engine from an engine rebuilder.

Steve

[ChadTower]

I could give a DAMN about the car itself.  I can't afford to make a payment on ANOTHER car AND this car AND my car for the next 3 years... and we can't really have only one car, since I work so far away from home and my wife has to bring the kids back and forth to school, etc.

[ChadTower]

Update... I called a local guy I know (indy guy, NOT a dealer) and he says he can probably get a used engine for a couple grand, so I'm having it towed over there today.  Seems like a better solution than replacing the short block on a bad engine.

[missioncontrol]

I allways thought that the Subaru's had a good reputation for reliability...once you get it back running you may want to consider a trade in on something else...

[fredster]

My Car advice ? Buy American next time.

Next advice? Don't bring it to that dealer again, ever.

Next advice? Sell it asap if you can get close to your money back.

Next advice? Sell all the cars you have, buy a cheap one cash that you don't have to make payments on for the wife, and then buy a small pickup truck for yourself.

A man needs a truck. There is no two ways about it.

[ChadTower]

Don't want a cheap one cash for the wife - we have two small kids and I don't want them stuck on the side of the road more than they have to be.  Then there's the safety issue... around here, you have to drive something heavy to defend yourself from the idiots in SUVs on phones jacking off running red lights.  Two years ago my wife and older son were hit directly on the driver's door by a 16 year old chick in a Pathfinder on the phone, doing her nails and going twice the speed limit in a residential area.  My son only suffered cuts but my wife had a c3 fracture as well as 3 pelvic fractures.  She now has arthritis in her hips and back... at 29.  The only reason she survived is that she was driving a 3000lb Thunderbird that absorbed the side impact.  If she had been driving my car, a Civic, she'd be dead.  This happened right out of our driveway.

That's why we have the Legacy Outback... good collision, "reliable", handles very well in snow.  Of course, we seem to have gotten a ---smurfy--- instance of it.  I read all of the reports, did all the research, and a 97 Legacy is supposed to be an excellent car.  Oh well.

When it comes down to it, I'd love to have a pickup, but we can only afford one 'premium' car and that's the one my wife and kids travel in.  I value their safety over my having a pickup.

I'm seriously considering trading that sucker on a Saturn, but don't think there's a way I can do it until the loan on this one is gone.

[JackTucky]

When it comes down to it, I'd love to have a pickup, but we can only afford one 'premium' car and that's the one my wife and kids travel in.  I value their safety over my having a pickup.

Well said ChadTower.  You'll both have nice/safe/pretty wheels someday . Meantime, wife and kids are safe.   

Art

[ChadTower]

Personally, I'd rather have no cars and get back the 5 figures a year we have to spend on insurance, payments, maintenance, and gas.  Too bad you can't function without them.

[clanggedin]

RULE OF THUMB... NEVER EVER TAKE YOUR VEHICLE TO A DEALER. YOU WILL GET TAKEN TO THE CLEANERS.

The sad thing about Subarus is that there are not tons of aftermarket parts for these vehicles. I would have another repair shop look at it. A head gasket shouldn't cost that much to fix.

You would be much better off replacing the engine in it, but the same thing may happen again in a few months with the new engine. Just make sure the shop warranties the motor for a year or so. Every Subaru that the dealership I work for has sold has had big issues with it. We don't even sell those that are traded in to us, we dump them at the auction.

You could be a jerk and have someone just fix the car so it will run for a bit, then trade it in or run it through a dealer auction. Once a delr has purchased a car he can only cancel the transaction if the vehicle has frame damage that is found after the pruchase and even then he must do it within 7 days. He only has until 5PM that day to back out of a deal for engine reasons.

[ChadTower]

Nah, I'm not that guy that rigs stuff so it works just long enough to get sold.

I think my local guy should have a handle on it, we're going to drop a whole used (but substantially less miles) engine in there.  I had it initially taken to the dealer because I thought it to be an electrical issue, and those are often best sorted out there...

[GGKoul]

When it comes down to it, I'd love to have a pickup, but we can only afford one 'premium' car and that's the one my wife and kids travel in.

[clanggedin]

Nah, I'm not that guy that rigs stuff so it works just long enough to get sold.

Us car dealers whish there were more people like you out there.

[maraxle]

I had a 2000 Jetta that I got in a huge acident with.. worte off the car. 

You're lucky you got rid of that Jetta.  I had one up until a couple of weeks ago, and it was by far the worst car I've ever owned.  As soon as the warranty ran out, everything started falling apart.  The final straw was it being in the shop for 7 days of a 10 day stretch earlier this month, each for a different problem.  The cheapest problem to fix was $250.  All the others were $350-$550.  As soon as I got the last one fixed, I drove across the street to the Mazda dealership and traded it in.  I'd sooner put a bullet in my head than own another VW or Audi.

On the Subaru issue, all those problems at less than 100k miles is a bit odd.  Sounds like you got a bad one.  Most Subarus I know of, including my previous one (a 1992 Loyale),  have gone close to 200k before stuff like that started happening...

[lucindrea]

last 2 cars i had were mercury marques ( acctully last car and the one i got now ) .. thing is a tank so no worrie about hitting anything , but it does eat gass , and about 1 qrt of oil per tank of gass , and a slow leak in one of the tires .. hehe , but it cost me $500 flat .. the only down side is insruance ( and the fact that i basicly expect it to drop dead one day ) ...

cant get the car registered if it's not insured , PA has a minumum of insurance you NEED to buy , insurance co's are req. by law to tell the state if you drop the insurance and the day the insurance drops is the day the registration is invalid , the only thing the minumum covers is that somone else cannot sue for driving an uninsured vehicle if you hit them,  and you cannot own a vehicle ( even if it's just sitting in a garrage ) unless it's registered. .. heh can you tell i just got a letter from the state today? 

when i think of the $$$ i spend every year just on gass and insurance for somthing i only need to get to and from work ( i work alone at nights so i have to drive myself ) it's heart breaking.

my old mountian bike is looking better and better .. to bad i work 10 miles from home ( uphill both ways , in other words i need to go over a hill ) and it's a nice brisk 20F outside .. 

hmm .,.. that reminds me , i need to runoutside and start the car or i will be drinking frozen coffee on the way in tonight.

[DrewKaree]

The one thing I noticed that nobody brought up when ragging on Subaru is the fact that you say you have had the car for approximately 20,000 miles of its life.  Seriously, you SHOULDN'T have problems like that at such a point in the life of that car, but you have absolutely NO IDEA how it was REALLY treated by a past owner(s). 

I had a Pontiac Sunbird that had the exact same problems you describe at almost the exact same mileage.  Perhaps it's a design flaw of the engine, or perhaps (and I'm only going by my experience with MY wife) there was an issue your wife didn't view as important that ended up stressing the car more than ever - like my wife telling me our Suburban doesn't heat up very well, and being a full gallon low on coolant

I don't know your experience, and I'm not blaming your wife, but that's pretty early to have a head gasket problem.

Are you mechanically inclined or is it something you'd rather not mess with?  All the prices you quote weren't completely out of line, but after doing brakes for several cars, I'm more comforatable trusting myself to do them rather than trust someone else for my family's safety.  The engine seems a bit excessive, and usually there's some specialists in your area that can do it cheaper because that's ALL they do - Engine rebuilds, radiators, & mufflers ALWAYS seem to be cheaper from those specialized shops, and quicker - as in "Wait in the waiting room, and I'll have your muffler done in about 20 minutes".  The engine and radiator took a bit longer, but I've always been happy with the work one of those shops do, and it's always been cheaper - by a few hundred or more.

[GGKoul]

I had a 2000 Jetta that I got in a huge acident with.. worte off the car.

[lucindrea]

that's pretty early to have a head gasket problem.

put 6 quarts of oil in a 4 quart engine .. see how fast you get head gasket problems

[paigeoliver]

My 1984 V6 Ranger has flipped the mileage at least twice, and it is still putting along. Although it does leak oil and transmission fluid now. I currently believe it to have 267,000 although there is a chance it may be 167,000 (doubtful, the interior has too far too much wear).

I'll likely keep fixing it for the forseeable future. Dropping in a used engine or tranny is about the same price as buying another heap, and it doesn't require sales tax, inspection, or any other costs.

I think car payments are just bad news. Especially used cars. Just buy what you can afford to pay cash for. You can STILL buy a serviceable vehicle for $1000 anywhere in america.

When buying cheapo cars try to get very common models. Preferably american cars, since they are cheaper to repair and more common.

[DrewKaree]

that's pretty early to have a head gasket problem.

put 6 quarts of oil in a 4 quart engine .. see how fast you get head gasket problems

Yeah, I know.  I'm just used to my position now.  I don't have to worry about those types of problems.  I've got a wife who would think nothing of only having TWO quarts of oil in that 4 quart engine   

On the plus side, I have a wife who not only knows how to change a flat, but has done it, herself, twice.        

Now THAT is some good training 

[TOK]

Bad news. The nature of the boxer engine seems kind of odd to me. With 180 degree opposed cylinders, the thing is basically trying to rip itself apart. I expect we're going to be seeing a flood of dead WRX's in 3 or 4 years. I realize Porsche has made the boxer configuration work, but they're built with a lot more care and expense than a Subaru.

Chad, was their any hint that this was coming? Was the car steaming a lot, even when warmed up? Losing coolant? Head gasket failures usually give a fair bit of warning before something as catastrophic as leaking enough to hydrolock.

As much as I hate laying out 20 (or 30!) grand for a new vehicle, I really don't like the prospect of buying someone elses problems. I can drive a klunker if I have to (I don't now, but I've owned more than my fair share), but a wife-mobile has to be 100% bullet-proof. I'd cut my losses on the Subaru and get something else.
Definitely sucks to owe on a dead car! 

[SOAPboy]

Get a new car.. consolidate the old loan to the new loan..

[fredster]

Live debt free.  The Dave Ramsey way.

I have owned one jap car. It was okay. It did good on gas, but it was a jap car.

the last few cars I had were GM and Fords.  I have 2001 ranger with 88,000 miles and I have put nothing in it but oil and gas, and a battery.  I had the same good luck with the GMs I've had.

A few years ago I got very sick and couldn't work. I got rid of my cars and kept really cheap cars.  <$1000 cars. I sold them for almost as much as I bought them for and upgraded slowly.  People sell cars cheap.  You can find one.

Make sure it's an american car so you can get the parts at autozone.

[Dexter]

Thats REALLY low mileage to have engine trouble on a Subaru. It must have been hammered into the tarmac by the previous owner. They're one of the tops reliability wise for engines and drivetrain (in europe anyway). I don't know if you have the same service stateside but you can get blocks from japan that will drop straight in. Have you any local shops that modify jap imports? They might be able to point you in the direction of a cheap low mileage stock engine.

Dexter