85u1 is out

[lokki]

Driver Improvements:
--------------------

- Fixed input port definition errors in megasys1. [Mamesick]

- Fixed input port definition errors in tnzs. [Inigo Luja]

- Fixed input port definition errors in taitosj, galaxian.
[Aaron Giles]

- Changed 720' controls to use an analog joystick instead of a
dial so that the original controller motion can be replicated.
Thanks to MAME Analog+ for the logic. [Aaron Giles]

- Fixed the colors in the Status trivia games. [Stefan Jokisch]

- Conditional DIP switches in rallyx, mcatadv, galpanic.
[Inigo Luja]


Changes to the main program:
----------------------------

- Fixed loading of ctrlr files so that they actually take effect now.
[Aaron Giles]

- Fixed bug preventing saving of lightgun control changes.
[Aaron Giles]

- Changed all the analog mapping defaults back to 'keyboard' as the
default values were confusing people. [Aaron Giles]

- Added the ability for analog axes to return "invalid" as a value
from the OSD layer, allowing them to dynamically disable themselves.
Using this feature, the Windows version now autodetects analog
versus digital axes and dynamically disables the analog values if
it thinks you are using a digital axis. Note that this even works
if you have a "switchable" gamepad. [Aaron Giles]

- Fixed debugger crash when using F10 with the i960 core. [R. Belmont]

- Cleaned up some #ifdef MESS and united the two definitions of
my_stricmp. [Rene Single]


New Non-Working games / clones supported
----------------------------------------
Party Time: Gonta the Diver II [Brian Troha]
Versus Net Soccer (ver JAB) [Brian Troha]
Phraze Craze [Pierpaolo Prazzoli]
Tic Tac Trivia [Pierpaolo Prazzoli]
Trivia Whiz [Pierpaolo Prazzoli]
Trivia Whiz II [Pierpaolo Prazzoli]

[SirPoonga]

- Changed 720' controls to use an analog joystick instead of a
dial so that the original controller motion can be replicated.
Thanks to MAME Analog+ for the logic. [Aaron Giles]

Is dial still there though?

[Howard_Casto]

it shouldn't matter..... you can use mouse axis for any analog inputs now, so you simply override the joystick with mouse using an ini file for that game.  

[SirPoonga]

how do you do that?  Is this due to all that new input port stuff?

[Howard_Casto]

yeah you make a 720.ini in your inis folder and make the following entry:

adstick     mouse

which will send analog axis to the mouse axis.


Now you never use the flags:

joystick 1
mouse 1

ect because they will conflict with each other.  I.e. the joystick and mouse should never be turned on at the same time.  

[Minwah]

How can digital directions be mapped to an analog stick using MAME's GUI??

Eg for Snake Pit I use an analog stick for the 4-way, and trackball for the trackball.  In MAME it uses E,D,S,F for the 4-way by default. I cannot map any joystick input for these, unless I use the -joystick switch, which overrides the 'trackball_device  mouse' setting.

I thought I could maybe use the 'digital j1' setting, but I don't think that is intended to actually enable joysticks, just to tag a stick as digital.

Edit: OK I had a go with the ctrlr files...I think I understand.  BUT I am having the same problem...how can I enable joystick, for digital inputs without using the -joystick switch??

[u_rebelscum]

it shouldn't matter..... you can use mouse axis for any analog inputs now, so you simply override the joystick with mouse using an ini file for that game.  

But the new 720 logic doesn't act like a dial anymore; it acts like an analog joystick.  This means it reads both axes and calculates the angle the stick is pointing.  This means you can now play 720 with a physical mouse (simulating a non-centering analog joystick).

However, a dial is only one axis, so with the new logic a dial will get only two directions, up and down, in 720.  That's right, an X axis mouse spinner results in up/down in 720.


So, no you can't use a spinner or original 720 controller in official mame to control the direction of the player in 720 anymore.

(reminder to self: keep support for spinner control in 720 in Analog+)

How can digital directions be mapped to an analog stick using MAME's GUI??

Use "-digital all" or "-digital j1" (j2 if joystick #2, j3 for joy #3, etc).

Like HC said, don't use the -joystick option anymore.

[Lilwolf]

but did you ever have a good game of 720 + a spinner?

I haven't tried it yet... but I would guess that it will make it more playable for most.

[Howard_Casto]

However, a dial is only one axis, so with the new logic a dial will get only two directions, up and down, in 720.  That's right, an X axis mouse spinner results in up/down in 720.

I think I'm missing something here.  It was my understanding that the 720 controls are completely analog now, so how would a dial come into the equation at all?  Also it was my understanding that if you used the new "mouse" control flag that the mouse axis mapped, would match the axis of whatver control you mapped it to (ie x axis of the mouse controls x axis of the control  automatically ect...).  

What you are saying shouldn't happen unless:

720 now uses a combo of a dial and an analog axis.  If that's true and one of the axis (mouse or otherwise) controls up and down movement then it should be mapped either as a y axis, or a vdial (vertical version of a dial)  that way the appropriate axis of any control will get mapped.  If not then the driver is wrong and needs fixed.  

If the problem is that the new mouse option automatically maps the first axis of the mouse to the first axis of the control, regardless of if they match up, then it is at fault and needs re-written.  

Either way, as goofy would put it, "Somethin' Wrong Here!"


Might be harsh either way, but I'm just calling it like I see it.  With the new, more flexible input system we shouldn't run into these wierd problems anymore, at all, period.    

[Lilwolf]

Its now using something VERY close to what I was working on a year+ ago.

Prentend you have a cursor on the screen... It will point in that direction.  

the trouble with that is the middle is hard to get lost (trying to make a full turn, but you don't make it past the middle, it then just moves back and forth.

but take note... its not so bad with a mouse.  I've got farther on my first try then I have with ANY controller (other then the original).  

So for most people... its a good thing.  For people who liked playing it with a spinner... get an old version of analog+ and keep it around.

[Minwah]

Use "-digital all" or "-digital j1" (j2 if joystick #2, j3 for joy #3, etc).

Like HC said, don't use the -joystick option anymore.

This is what I thought, but '-digital j1' doesn't actually enable joysticks (at least when I go in to set the controls my joystick movement is not acknowledged).  Bug??

[Howard_Casto]

your confused......  the ="digital" entry has NOTHING do do with when joysticks are enabled, they have to do with how the axis are treated once they are enabled.  Basically it sets which axis on your joystick(s) will be digital, thus the name.  

Now in Mame, for each type of control, you tell mame which type of controller you wish to use....

So to have a joystick enabled on games with a flight stick, the adstick_device entry should be set to "joystick" If you have an exception, you make an ini file for that particular game and override.  Joysticks and mice should NEVER be turned on at the same time the way the new system is setup and these new "device" flags help you set things up as automatically as possible.  

[Minwah]

your confused......  the ="digital" entry has NOTHING do do with when joysticks are enabled, they have to do with how the axis are treated once they are enabled.  Basically it sets which axis on your joystick(s) will be digital, thus the name.  

Now in Mame, for each type of control, you tell mame which type of controller you wish to use....

So to have a joystick enabled on games with a flight stick, the adstick_device entry should be set to "joystick" If you have an exception, you make an ini file for that particular game and override.  Joysticks and mice should NEVER be turned on at the same time the way the new system is setup and these new "device" flags help you set things up as automatically as possible.  

OK, thanks so far...

So what happens if you HAVE to have mouse / joysticks enabled at the same time??  ie for this:

4-way = my analog stick
trackball = my trackball

Trackball works fine (trackball_device mouse), and I have mapped the inputs using a ctrlr entry:

<port type="P1_JOYSTICKLEFT_UP">

[Howard_Casto]

ugh... you really aren't listening man.  The example you added is an exact example of what you should never, ever, ever, ever do anymore.  Never turn on joysticks and mice at the same time, they will interfere.  For that matter, you don't use the mouse or joystick flags at all, ever again.  They are only kept in mame for consistancies sake.  

using the keyboard for and adstick device couldn't be easier

the entry you use is:

adstick_device     keyboard

or optionally you take out the adstick entry all together as by default, all non digital controls are mapped to the keyboard.  

Of course there are pedals and such too, but they each have their own device flag and you can set accordingly.  


remember, all these new "device" flags do is dynamically turn on or off the control you define, based on what controls are emulated in the game you are playing.  I.e. you don't set the mouse and joystick flags anymore as these new device flags turn them on and off for you.  Literally that is what they do internally, they activate or deactive the mouse, joystick, or both depending upon the game and the controls used.  


Remapping is still exactly the same, ie you still need to use the "or" flag and put in joystick codes if using a joystick and mouse axis still can't be remapped (they are automatically mapped to the matching analog axis when the mouse is enabled).    

[Minwah]

ugh... you really aren't listening man.  The example you added is an exact example of what you should never, ever, ever, ever do anymore.  Never turn on joysticks and mice at the same time, they will interfere.  For that matter, you don't use the mouse or joystick flags at all, ever again.  They are only kept in mame for consistancies sake.  

OK, I am listening, but the example I gave MUST have joysticks AND mouse enabled somehow or another, since I want to use an analog stick AND a trackball.  If using 'joystick 1' is not the way to do it, then how??

using the keyboard for and adstick device couldn't be easier

the entry you use is:

adstick_device     keyboard

or optionally you take out the adstick entry all together as by default, all non digital controls are mapped to the keyboard.  

I understand this, but this is not what I am trying to do.  Read again, I am trying to map an analog stick (ie the stick on my panel), to a DIGITAL input.

remember, all these new "device" flags do is dynamically turn on or off the control you define, based on what controls are emulated in the game you are playing.  I.e. you don't set the mouse and joystick flags anymore as these new device flags turn them on and off for you.  Literally that is what they do internally, they activate or deactive the mouse, joystick, or both depending upon the game and the controls used.  

Again, I get this entirely.  I don't think you get what I am trying to do.

Remapping is still exactly the same, ie you still need to use the "or" flag and put in joystick codes if using a joystick and mouse axis still can't be remapped (they are automatically mapped to the matching analog axis when the mouse is enabled).    

Fine.  Take a look at my previous post, with the section of my ctrlr file.  So I have mapped joystick inputs to the digitial inputs the game uses...but when I fire up MAME, the inputs are NOT being used (they show up as 'n/a', presumably since I have not enabled 'joystick' which you say never to do).

So my question is, how do I enable the joystick inputs which I have mapped, without using 'joystick 1'??  If I am being totally thick please spell it out to me, but I just cannot see how to do it  

[u_rebelscum]

However, a dial is only one axis, so with the new logic a dial will get only two directions, up and down, in 720.  That's right, an X axis mouse spinner results in up/down in 720.

I think I'm missing something here.  It was my understanding that the 720 controls are completely analog now, so how would a dial come into the equation at all?  Also it was my understanding that if you used the new "mouse" control flag that the mouse axis mapped, would match the axis of whatver control you mapped it to (ie x axis of the mouse controls x axis of the control  automatically ect...).  

[snip]

The original 720 controller was a spinner (with one 72 tooth (72 gap) for the main encoder wheel).  If mame was accurate, the input should be able to take an original spinner and use it to play the game.

But play the game and read the source howard, and you'll see why spinners won't work in 720 anymore (src/driver/atarisy2.c, lines 381-432 and 690-786).  It's a game specific problem, and has almost nothing to do with the new input stuff, except AG made them at the same time.  It's one of mame's not-accurate-input-simulation-so-more-people-can-play hacks, IMO.  (I should know, I use the same hack in Analog+, except I let the player choose between using an original / spinner, or an analog joystick.)


Old 720 driver (and original game): count number ticks left or right the spinner is turned, change the 8 bit counter the same amount.  

New 720 driver: read analog X & Y axis values and if not centered, figure the direction angle the joystick is sticking.  The angle is not from vertical, but if the stick is pushed stright left or 46.78 degrees down from straight right: pushed straight right being zero, straight up being 90 degrees.  Take that angle and convert it into the 8 bit number the game needs to point the charcter the same direction.   This now replaces the original dial input.


Notice the new way needs both X and Y axes.  With a spinner, you only have one axis.  It's like a 2-way analog joystick.  Using the new 720 driver logic, a 2-way has only three possible outputs: 90 degrees, -90 degrees, and centered (a null value different from zero degrees).

So a spinner will NOT control 720 worth a damn.  Even less than it did in the old way with the varying number of teeth spinners had (unless it was an original controller spinner ).  The logic in the driver is all wrong for a spinner; it is all wrong for an original 720 controller.


OTOH, a mouse (2 axes) can do an okay job, very like what lilwolf wanted to do a while back.

[u_rebelscum]

So my question is, how do I enable the joystick inputs which I have mapped, without using 'joystick 1'??  If I am being totally thick please spell it out to me, but I just cannot see how to do it  

I tested it howard, and it looks like you need to "joystick 1" is you want to use a DirectX Joystick for digital inputs.  Like Minwah says, "digital j1" does not enable joysticks.  (mametesters?)

Games like snakepit and wacko, which use both trackball and digital joystick, look like they need "joystick 1" and either a ctrlr entry or an edited cfg file.  

BTW, you can remap you mouse/TB inside official mame.  You know, tab, select input you want to change, enter, spin TB.  Sometimes it doesn't register so I have to enter spin again, but [shrug] so what.

[Minwah]

I tested it howard, and it looks like you need to "joystick 1" is you want to use a DirectX Joystick for digital inputs.  Like Minwah says, "digital j1" does not enable joysticks.  (mametesters?)

Games like snakepit and wacko, which use both trackball and digital joystick, look like they need "joystick 1" and either a ctrlr entry or an edited cfg file.  

BTW, you can remap you mouse/TB inside official mame.  You know, tab, select input you want to change, enter, spin TB.  Sometimes it doesn't register so I have to enter spin again, but [shrug] so what.

Thanks, that helps

I've got it working now, but I had to use 'joystick 1' which adds joystick mapping to the trackball input too.  So I manually mapped the mouse axes in the tab menu to the trackball input (I didn't realise you could do that).  How could I do that using ctrlr files now?

[u_rebelscum]

I've got it working now, but I had to use 'joystick 1' which adds joystick mapping to the trackball input too.  So I manually mapped the mouse axes in the tab menu to the trackball input (I didn't realise you could do that).  How could I do that using ctrlr files now?

Cut-n-paste that game's cfg/cfg <system> section to the end of the ctrlr file (but before the ending </mameconfig> tag).  The cfg and ctrlr are almost the same, and are the in the system section portion, AFAIK.

The section should already be named correctly specifically for that game.

Edit inputs as needed.

[Minwah]

Cut-n-paste that game's cfg/cfg <system> section to the end of the ctrlr file (but before the ending </mameconfig> tag).  The cfg and ctrlr are almost the same, and are the in the system section portion, AFAIK.

The section should already be named correctly specifically for that game.

Edit inputs as needed.

Thanks, worked like a champ