TALK ME OUT OF MAME32!!!

[Ryan]

Anyone have the time to explain why I should use a frontend instead of just using only Mame32?

I am using a 1.7ghz pentium4 256 ram for my cabinet.  Like the look of Lazarus and ArcadeOS from reading and looking.  All I have used though is Mame 32, everything works just great.  I have screenshots and lists and a cool background.  Is there any over deciding reasons that I should use a frontend?    

Oh ya, if frontends are the way to go, can I keep using Mame32, or do I have to use Mame through DOS?

[SirPoonga]

I believe mame32 does have a commandline interface.  it run like mame but I think (not sure though) that you have to add -quit in order for the gui to auto quit.

Depends on the FE.  With an FE it doesn't look like windows, which is one of the biggest pros that most people want.  Many FEs have features mame32 does not, like auditing adult games out, organizing by category (yes, I know, you can get catver.ini into mame32 but that is an addition onto mame32, I will assume only mame32 proper).

If you like mame32 though, stick with it.

[Howard_Casto]

Mame32 really needs a mouse... and front-ends don't  that's the biggest functionality issue i think besides the fact that mame will only run mame games.

[Dave Dribin]

If you just want to run MAME occasionally on your PC, then MAME32 is probably good enough for ya.  If you start getting into other emulators that don't have GUIs or you want to have a single point of control for all your emulators, then a FE is the way to go.  The only reason I wrote my FE is so I could pick games to play in my MAME cabinet.

BTW, this should be in some FAQ somewhere.  MAME32 is *not* the only Windows version of MAME.  The MAME team puts out an official Windows version *and* a DOS version.  So, say you want to use a FE, use the official Windows MAME (not MAME32).  You'll get the benefit of using Windows drivers w/o the pain of DOS.

-Dave

[Ryan]

OK, Front Ends sound alright but still nothing that convinces me to use one.  Mame32 does allow you to select games in the game list with the joystick and buttons for select, page up, and page down.
Is there someone out there that was using Mame32 that decided to go with a FE instead?
I was going to create a Hotkey for shutdown of my system.  Is this what Auto Quit does in a FE?

[Dink]

I need to use a frontend because I use multiple emulators (mame32, project 64, 1964, daphne .99.4, daphne .99.5, stella, FCE Ulta, etc).

The problem is... there isn't a Win32 frontend that:

1. runs on Windows 98SE
2. launches win32 AND dos emulators
3. is compatible with all the current emulators
4. that is easy to configure (SELF CONFIGURING)

Since most frontends are free, I can't complain.

[)p(]

I need to use a frontend because I use multiple emulators (mame32, project 64, 1964, daphne .99.4, daphne .99.5, stella, FCE Ulta, etc).

The problem is... there isn't a Win32 frontend that:

1. runs on Windows 98SE
2. launches win32 AND dos emulators
3. is compatible with all the current emulators
4. that is easy to configure (SELF CONFIGURING)

Since most frontends are free, I can't complain.

1/3 most fe's no problem...
4...hehe mine is cetrainly not self configuring and will probably never be because of the sheer number of options Also when you want a fe that can handle a lot off different emulators it will always take some effort to cfg it. That said Lazarus seems to be your best bet because HC learned from our and his examples and made a new cfg system for lazarus which is the most straightforward for handling complex setup to date  

Peter

[Minwah]

My FE is very easy to configure for emus (just the .exe location required).  BUT it is not as flexible as eg Lazarus and therefore is probably not compatible with ALL emulators.  Most emu's that can be commandline driven work fine though

[Lilwolf]

I dont' think they should be self configuring..

but they should be working out of the box..

what does that mean?  You install... and after setting directories it's working...

then you can fine toon.  

I hate when nothing works... and you don't know what to do but check every ini file.

It's much nicer to have it working... then say... I want it to do this... and look and find it... get it working... then continue (ie, you are changing from working to working better)

[)p(]

I dont' think they should be self configuring..

but they should be working out of the box..

what does that mean?  You install... and after setting directories it's working...

then you can fine toon.  

I hate when nothing works... and you don't know what to do but check every ini file.

It's much nicer to have it working... then say... I want it to do this... and look and find it... get it working... then continue (ie, you are changing from working to working better)

All fe's even mine are allready like that...

Peter

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah they all do that including mine.  The problem is there isn't a true "out of the box" for any front-end.....  

Why?  

Well for one thing it needs to know where mame is, so you have to set that up.  If it supports artwork it needs to know where it is, although many assume it's where mame is.  It also needs to know the possible games, which is external for all the better front-ends.  That means you have to generate the list some way.  Since this can take a while, most fe's also dont' auto scan upon startup.  

The problem with "right out of the box" mentality is less setup means crippled features.  So sure, you could make one that works straight out of the box, but it would have to be in the mame directory and all of your artwork would have to be in the default places, your mame.exe would have to be named mame.exe and  you would have to bear with a sometimes time consuming search for roms upon startup.  

Since most people wuldn't be willing to do this, "straight out of the box" fe's are few and far between.  Actually I can't think of a single one.  

[SirPoonga]

I need to use a frontend because I use multiple emulators (mame32, project 64, 1964, daphne .99.4, daphne .99.5, stella, FCE Ulta, etc).

The problem is... there isn't a Win32 frontend that:

1. runs on Windows 98SE
2. launches win32 AND dos emulators
3. is compatible with all the current emulators
4. that is easy to configure (SELF CONFIGURING)

Since most frontends are free, I can't complain.

Weird, never heard those complaints before all together.
1.Most run on 98
2.many run dos and win32 apps
for 3. there are a few out there
4. that's hard.

It's have to know where your emulators are, what the cfg files look like, etc..  Would take ALOT of work.

[Howard_Casto]

Weird, never heard those complaints before all together.
1.Most run on 98
2.many run dos and win32 apps
for 3. there are a few out there
4. that's hard.

It's have to know where your emulators are, what the cfg files look like, etc..  Would take ALOT of work.

SirP is right....
Regarding #3...

Actually without the aid of my wrappers there are none that are compatible with all the current emulators as a few don't have command line support.  

Also regarding the rest....

I don't think you non-programmers realize what an incredible amount of work it takes to support more than one emulator, much less all of them.  It took me 4-6 months to design the wrapper system, and even now they are only 95% effective.  

Some of the new front-ends, including mine, support a MASSIVE amount of features.  Keep in mind that a commercial peice of software that does as much as say, 3d arcade, will have dozens to hundereds of people working on it.  >p< does it all by himself.  All of us fe programmers are in this same boat.  Combine that and the fact that we have actual lives outside of this hobby and you'll realize that we have to pick and choose what and can and cannot do.  

Some choose to make an extrememly basic fe and give it really good configuration support.  Others choose to add a slew of features and skimp on the ease of setup.  It's not humanly possible to add the things that some users ask for.  You can add one but not the other, you can add some but not all.  

The ONLY way you'll see a very flexiable, auto-configuring fe that bosts multiple emulator support and a good number of features is if it's commercially made or you can convince about 20 or so programmers to work on a fe together, for free no less.  

This is not a rant or anything like that, just an explaination of why what you ask is nearly impossible.  If I got paid to do this, I figure it's all I would do, and I'm sure a lot of the guys feel the same way, but the sad fact is that we dont' get paid for it, so we have to stick to the real world for now.  

Of course if you were willing to pay us........

[)p(]

Actually without the aid of my wrappers there are none that are compatible with all the current emulators as a few don't have command line support.  

And this was a great idea by Howard making his wrappers universal it took away the need for others like me to spend so much time on that.  

To explain a bit further...this is how I go about it. I mostly add feutures request I also think are useful or cool. While adding stuff my first priority is getting it to work ok for me as my fe is in the first place made for my own use. As I know how to cfg my own fe in most cases addiong stuff will add to the difficylty for others. Occasionally when I get the feeling it is getting out of hand. I will take a look back and reorganize the configuration of the fe to make it easier. For those, who have following the development of my fe, a good example is the 65 release that introduced the concept of selectionsets and most importently made the cfg file into a strict hierarchy with no more crosslinking  

Peter

[thelevin8r]

Ala Micr$oft, create a Wizard that will step the nube(me) through each step. Lets say I want to add Dafnie with the wizard. The wizard puts the files where they need to go. It then gives specific instructions on what file chsnges need tp be made abd where they should go

[)p(]

Ala Micr$oft, create a Wizard that will step the nube(me) through each step. Lets say I want to add Dafnie with the wizard. The wizard puts the files where they need to go. It then gives specific instructions on what file chsnges need tp be made abd where they should go

Actually it seems there are a few people working on making such wizards for both howard's and mine fe...
It's just those take a lot of time to make them just right and we prefer to add stuff to the fe and solve issues then doing that...
Also if you get used to using cfg files you will discover it is much easier then you think and gives you much more power and flexibility then any wizard would be able to do. A wizard look then as a lot of time to invest for something I won't never use and and neither most  experienced users...but that is just my opinion and there are users that think differently about this issue and some are working to make their own cfg utility and want to share it...

Peter

[Howard_Casto]

Ala Micr$oft, create a Wizard that will step the nube(me) through each step. Lets say I want to add Dafnie with the wizard. The wizard puts the files where they need to go. It then gives specific instructions on what file chsnges need tp be made abd where they should go

Actually it seems there are a few people working on making such wizards for both howard's and mine fe...
It's just those take a lot of time to make them just right and we prefer to add stuff to the fe and solve issues then doing that...
Also if you get used to using cfg files you will discover it is much easier then you think and gives you much more power and flexibility then any wizard would be able to do. A wizard look then as a lot of time to invest for something I won't never use and and neither most  experienced users...but that is just my opinion and there are users that think differently about this issue and some are working to make their own cfg utility and want to share it...

Peter

What he said.

Also with the wizards...  The wizards being made for my fe aid you in setting up search strings, not the actual setup of the emulators themselves.  The reason is even noobs have no problem adding new emulators.  The problems come with setting up the wrappers and understanding the search string. If you'll read the manual there is only one cfg file that you actually have to edit and it's in the cfgs folder named after the emulator.  It has a whopping total of about 4 entries, each of which is clearly named and easy to understand.  How much easier can you get than that?  

As for the wrappers, it's impossible to make a wizard....  Why?  Well first off every emulator needs special attention and tweaking until it launches properly.  It's not an exact science, you have to play around with the settings until you get it working right.  This is something that you simply can do via a wizard.  Secondly I feel that in order for a user to understand the principal behind the wrappers they need to learn for themselves.  If a wizard was made I woudl get a bunch of stupid questions that wouldn't even be asked if they even halfway understood how the wrappers worked.  Again the only way to teach people that is to make them set it up manually.  

Raging Dragon was designed to make setup easy.  Lazarus is designed to make setup possible for emulators that otherwise couldn't be supported.  You notice I left the easy out this time around.