How to legally purchase Mame ROMs

[tw661]

How do I legally purchase Mame ROMs?  There are a ton of  games that I want to play.  How do I get the ROMs legally.  I saw Starroms.com, but that isn't nearly enough.  And I don't want to search to buy all of the oriiginal game boards either.

Thanks for your help.

[Patent Doc]

Well, I had a very long answer for you, but lucky you I lost my connection while typing it and never noticed so when I hit send I lost the reply.  In a nutshell, there is NO legal way to obtain the ROMS that has been tested in the courts apart from buying them from starroms or having first hand knowledge that the copyright has been terminated  and thus donated to the public domain.  

Copyrights expire 70yrs beyond the death of the author and can be extended after that so don't wait for expiration.

IF you want to obtain the ROMS the only possible legal approach (note the ROMS are likely not illegal just your possession of them) you need to own the original PCB for every ROM.  This way you might fall under the "fair use doctrine" of the US Copyright law (no idea what happens anywhere else).  Though you are still taking a risk.  (See Sections 117 and 905 of Title 17 of the US Code).  The only real sure way to avoid any illegailities is to obtain a written liscence to own the ROM from the copyright owner.  Short of this the water is really muddy.

Hope this helps.  Incidently the Project Arcade book has a nice two page section on this topic.

[SirPeale]

Or you can buy them from starroms.com

Or you can get a HotRod.  Those come with some of the Capcom ROMs.

There are several different ways to get legal ROMsets.

[SirPoonga]

I don't know where it went, but there was a sticky thread for sometime that saint started on legal roms, either in the software or everything else section.

[Howard_Casto]

For the record, and only for the record thanks to the dmca and the work of the riaa there is no such thing as fair use.  

In other words, other than starroms and public roms there are NO legal ways to obtain roms.  

Why?  Because the riaa took advantage or some of the more vauge portions of the dmca.  There is a portion of the dmca that says any purposeful circumvention of any steps, hardware or otherwise, put in place to keep data contained is in violation of copyright.  (i'm not wording this properly i'm sure)

A little sketchy on what is circumvetion huh?  Well they took advantage of that fact and basically took away our "free use" rights.  They said that transferring the data to a computer was in violation of the dmca.  Now considering that audio cds don't have any copy protection and they keep winning their cases this  pretty much means that free use is dead.  And remember, most pcbs do have some form of hardware protection (again as loosely as the dmca is worded, not having a ready-made port to extract the eprom data can be considered hardware protection).  

Regardless of that:  

For some reason people think that own the original pcb means something.  It doesn't.  That's like saying owning the snes version of mortal kombat entitles you to a copy of the genesis version.  

When you buy a device with software on it like that you buy the hardware and lease the software. You can never own software unless specifically given that right.  In other words you have the right to do anything you like to a pcb, but you don't have any rights pretaining to the data on the eprom chips.  Unless specifically noted (like pc software) you are only given the right to use said software on the hardware it came on becuase once you strip away the physical components you are left with pure intellectual property, which you don't have any claim to.  

[Patent Doc]

Well, I've decided to post a part of Title 17 of the US Code, which is the title that relates to Copyright.  In particular what is below are the parts of sections 107, 108, and 117 that relate to "fair use" and provide the ray of hope for those that obtain ROMS. So here we go

[Howard_Casto]

I'm aware of the definition of free use but the dmca is in direct conflict with all of that.  

And yes distribution is the record industry's main claim, but think about it, how many people do you know that dump their own roms?

Yes, I agree, the jury is still out, but in this sue crazy society we live in, something is illegal until proven legal.  I'm sure our forefathers are rolling in their grave's but that's the world we live in.  

[Patent Doc]

Howard I wasn't attacking you. Sorry if I gave that impression.  It was not my intention. Rather, I thought that everyone out there would benefit from seeing the actual US code.  

The part I directed towards you was prompted by my feeling that you were too emphatic with your analysis of the state of the law.  Though, I must admit, I largely agree with you (especially rgarding our forefathers roling in their graves over the shape of the legal system), just no point in affirmatively stating something that hasn't come to pass.  With regard to the dmca and "fair use" I think, though admittedly its been a while since a read the case law on this, that the ruling was based on a very narrow ruling of "fair use" which states that the use is limited to "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research." I also believe the ruling put a lot of weight into the loss of market value of the infringed product and the fact that entire works were being copied.

[the3eyedblindman]

Just buy them ilegally from a burner, who cares, its the easiest way, and probably how everyone else ( well most of them) on this website have gotten them.

[StephenH]

You can try approaching the game companies directly.  The older and the less popular the game was, the more likely they are to license.  It is fair game with any company though.

[AlanS17]

You can try approaching the game companies directly.  The older and the less popular the game was, the more likely they are to license.  It is fair game with any company though.

I'm sure companies such as starroms.com are already up on this. That's what they do. If they haven't done it yet then (i figure) there is probably little hope for us.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah, I asked those guys about it early on, just getting the ancient atari roms took months and moths of negociations from the current owners of atari, which just happened to want to unload some of atari's older stuff.  

But hey it's worth a shot.

Btw pat, no offense taken, I didn't even realize you thought I was offended.  If I am you'll know.  

[Patent Doc]

I also contacted starroms and talked to them about the liscencing process... the gave me the same story they gave Howard .. VERY long negotiations.  However, this was a distribution liscence so it MAY be different from an individual wanting the liscence for a non-distribution personal use.  Liscencing fees, on the other hand, may very well be cheaper for starroms than individuals because they probably pay some sort of royalty to Atari for every game they sell.  

Still this didn't stop me from contacting NAMCO.  I got the impression from NAMCO that they were looking into liscencing old games, but they seemed confused by my desire for a liscence restricted to personal use.  Anyway, the person in the legal department that I spoke with was not prepared to inter negotiations and told me to call back at a later time.    

OK bad choice of companies on my part judging by the continued success of Ms. Pac Man/ Galaga and the NAMCO classic software for x-box, ps2, and pc.

[SirPoonga]

it would be cool if you could get after other companies like atari.  Now, starroms might have had it a *little* easier being that atari arcade is now dead since midway killed it.  BUT you might be able to use starroms as an example that tselling old rom license is a good business, if starroms is doing good off it.

[Howard_Casto]

I think my problem is the games I personally loved are by companies that are popular and still in business.  

Namco, midway, and capcom.  They are still the powerhouses and thus like to keep hold of their property.  Capcom throws us a bone once in a while though.  

While we are on the subject does anyone know the company that owns data east now?  Data East and it's sister company are now defunct and I haven't seen anything done with their properties in over 10 years.  It might be easy to get permission from them as they are a dead company and they have some great games like karnov, bad dudes and robocop.  

[the3eyedblindman]

Just buy them ilegally from a burner, who cares, its the easiest way, and probably how everyone else ( well most of them) on this website have gotten them.

I guess i worded this wrong, considering i got a complaint from someone. You don't 'buy' the ROMs from a Laz burner, you request them.  It's free, just send media and return postage. If not, you send them the money for the media and the postage, not the roms.

[SirPoonga]

Still doesn't make a difference, from a legal standpoint that isn't going to fly

[Knoxximus]

Ahhh, just leave well enough alone....hit up Lazurus, get you a rom set, then replace your front door with a steel reinforced concrete barrier so that when the Feds come to bust down YOUR door instead of the 2 other meth labs you live between, you have some time to eat your hard drive.

...sheesh......

[Patent Doc]

Of course all of this discussion depends on your reason for wanting to obtain legal ROMS.  If it is a moral decision for you, well then your only option that's guaranteed legal is to obtain a liscence for each and every game you want. On the other hand, if you are just paranoid you could try to obtain the ROMS from a burner (of course, I would NEVER suggest you do this as it is of course illegal and nobody here wants to break the law).  But if you did want to obtain them, hypothetically of course, you could get a yahoo or hotmail account e-mail the the burner and have them send the ROMs to an address other than your home.  

enjoy

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not particularly fond of burners, mainly on a moral standpoint.  

Now I know that burners aren't supposed to be charging you and the price you pay is to cover the cds/dvds and the shipping but usually their price is about a buck or two higher than what it should be, or at least the average price I get when I look up good quality cds and calculate shipping.  

They might just be making a buck or a quarter extra and not even realize it, but I have this thing about making money off of the back's of others and the fact that they might unintentially make some cash off of the deal doesn't set with me well.  

Of course I can't tell you where and I'm not suggesting that you should steal roms, BUT if you need roms and are going to obtain them illegally then I suggest supporting various rom websites and newsgroups.  Especially the latter as they are the one's that locate these hard to find roms that everyone else mooches off of and distributes all over cyberspace.  



anway.....

I think these discussions are healthy.  It's important, especially to newbies to fully understand some of the "grey" areas of this hobby.  With that being said, legally at least it looks a little more black than grey imho but morally is another story all-together.