What kind of car should I get?

[maraxle]

I'm looking for new car ideas, as I hate my 2000 Volkswagen Jetta GLX (that's the VR6 engine with all the options, leather interior, etc).  What kind of car should I get instead?  Here's some of my criteria/likes/dislikes to get you started...

I will not ever buy another Volkswagen.
I will not buy an Audi because it is just a glorified Volkswagen.
I will not buy a BMW.
I will not buy a Honda Accord or Civic.
I will not buy an SUV.
I will not buy a van, mini or otherwise.
I had a bad experience with a Subaru at one point, so I would need much convincing to buy another.
I had an excellent experience with a Mazda 626.
I do not like how trucks ride enough to have one as my primary vehicle.
I do not like rear wheel drive vehicles.
What I like best about my Jetta are the fun features and the smooth (for a small car) ride.
What I like least about my Jetta are the reliability (or lack thereof) and VW service reps.
I would prefer not to spend more than $30k, but would consider it.
I would prefer gas mileage at least as good as, if not better, than the 20 city / 25 highway that my Jetta gets.

If any questions you can think of would help you suggest a car, feel free to ask them.

[jam92102]

Mazda Rx-8

[Luxury]

Mazda Rx-8

I concur

[Ken Layton]

Today's cars are the flimsiest, crappiest, overpriced junk ever made. Get yourself something with some meat on it like a 55 Buick! Just the bumper on that has more metal in it than a complete car today has.

[NoBonus]

Buy a Saturn.  It is inexpensive, reliable, good customer service, and safe.

[Buddabing]

I'm looking for new car ideas, as I hate my 2000 Volkswagen Jetta GLX (that's the VR6 engine with all the options, leather interior, etc).  What kind of car should I get instead?  Here's some of my criteria/likes/dislikes to get you started...

I will not ever buy another Volkswagen.
I will not buy an Audi because it is just a glorified Volkswagen.
I will not buy a BMW.
I will not buy a Honda Accord or Civic.
I will not buy an SUV.
I will not buy a van, mini or otherwise.
I had a bad experience with a Subaru at one point, so I would need much convincing to buy another.
I had an excellent experience with a Mazda 626.
I do not like how trucks ride enough to have one as my primary vehicle.
I do not like rear wheel drive vehicles.
What I like best about my Jetta are the fun features and the smooth (for a small car) ride.
What I like least about my Jetta are the reliability (or lack thereof) and VW service reps.
I would prefer not to spend more than $30k, but would consider it.
I would prefer gas mileage at least as good as, if not better, than the 20 city / 25 highway that my Jetta gets.

If any questions you can think of would help you suggest a car, feel free to ask them.

I would say buy something used, say 3-4 years old and get an extended warranty. New cars depreciate significantly when you drive them off the lot.

[zaphod]

Two year-old Nissan Altima.  Depreciates very fast so don't buy new.  My '96 has worked wonderfully for me the last 6+ years.  Great car for the price.  They generally include an extended warranty.

[maraxle]

Mazda Rx-8

That's rear-wheel drive.

[abrannan]

Toyota Prius?

[Santoro]

Any Toyota will be super-reliable and have a quality ride.  I love my Sequoia and Sienna before it. (though those don't meet your parameters)  Toyota has similar quality of engineering as VW IMHO.  

I have a hard time recommending any sub$30K American car to you because if you are anything like me you are probably 'spoiled' by the rock-solid feel of the fit and finish of your VW.  My Passat felt like a tank.  My new Mazda Tribute (AKA Ford Escape) feels like an empty aluminum can by comparison.  The fit and finish is AWFUL!  If the little touches and fit and finish mean a lot to you, go Toyota, and maybe Nissan/Honda.

A lot will call me anti-American, but I can't see paying hard earned cash for lesser-quality vehicles.  Anyone who wants to call me on that should review the Consumer Reports Car Reliability ratings and compare any foreign car with its nearest domestic competitor.   And I know from experience that those ratings are accurate - they have pegged the problems with every car I have owned for the last 20 years.  

[mmmPeanutButter]

Toyota Prius?

I vote prius too (is this a democratic vote??).

At least take it out for a spin...  if you can find one.  I hear there is a pretty big waiting list (about 9 months in CA).

[Sephroth57]

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII

the baddest ass japanese import car to be sold in the US to date. AWD turbo, runs 13.1 1/4 mile stock.. need i say more

[Santoro]

Mazda Rx-8

I must say this car is awesome.  If I wanted a sportscar, I'd easily chose this one.

[abrannan]

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII

the baddest ass japanese import car to be sold in the US to date. AWD turbo, runs 13.1 1/4 mile stock.. need i say more

$29,999 MSRP, cuts it a bit close to the limit, no?

[JackTucky]

I'd get a tiny car filled with clowns.  

Art

[Dartful Dodger]

Buy American.

[NoBonus]

Buy American.

I haven't heard that slogan when referring to cars since the movie, "Spies Like Us" was on the big screen.

[jam92102]

Mazda Rx-8

That's rear-wheel drive.

I was not aware of that.  Just thought they looked pretty awesome.

[mozzer]

Lexus IS300.... It's a sick car and right at $30k

[Mr. Dude]

Go get a moped... you'll save on gas money.

[maraxle]

I have a hard time recommending any sub$30K American car to you because if you are anything like me you are probably 'spoiled' by the rock-solid feel of the fit and finish of your VW.  My Passat felt like a tank.  

Maybe the Passat is better, but the last thing I would describe my Jetta as, well, other than reliable, is rock-solid.  Every time I turn a corner I'm afraid a wheel is going to pop off or something.

[Santoro]

Wow, that sucks.  My Passat really felt solid.  I haven't dealt with Jetta's much.  Maybe I am jaded because of how much crappier my new car is.  

[maraxle]

Toyota Prius?

I vote prius too (is this a democratic vote??).

At least take it out for a spin...  if you can find one.  I hear there is a pretty big waiting list (about 9 months in CA).

I like Toyota, but I think the Prius is a rather unattractive vehicle.  The Tacoma is great, as is the Camry, and the Celica and Spyder look pretty cool (if a little bit girly).

[maraxle]

So far I'm intrigued most by the RX8 suggestion.  Does anyone here have firsthand experience with one, good or bad?

[abrannan]

Toyota Prius?

I vote prius too (is this a democratic vote??).

At least take it out for a spin...  if you can find one.  I hear there is a pretty big waiting list (about 9 months in CA).

I like Toyota, but I think the Prius is a rather unattractive vehicle.  The Tacoma is great, as is the Camry, and the Celica and Spyder look pretty cool (if a little bit girly).

Yes, but you can MAME it.  There's a VGA screen in the dash.

[u_rebelscum]

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII

I have an '01 Mitsubishi Galant.  V-6, sporty feel, 20/26 mpg rated and about what I get.  Notice I said sporty feel, the actual 0-60 and 40-70 times are only good at best.  Decent in the 10-40 mph ranges though.  [size=-2]I know it goes over a hundred fine [/size]  Not sure about the new galant models.

But the lancer and RX-8 are way sportier cars if that's what you want.  I just wanted a cheep, non-honda aggressive-like car when I got mine.

[hyiu]

I have a couple of questions...

do you want a 4 dr car ??... or don't mind a 2 dr car ??...

do you drive to work ??... or just wkend driving ??...

and also... if you buy this car... how long do you intend to keep it ??...

and you said you don't want to go over $30k... but will consider.... I would like to know... are you going to take a big loan on it ??... or not ??...

I think these are also deciding factors.....

[pointdablame]

01-03 Subaru WRX... I know you said you had a bad experience with Subaru, but at least drive it.  Look at the STI if you wanna have a lot more fun.  You could also get a WRX wagon which is still sporty looking IMHO and still quick as hell if that matters to you.  You could probably fit smaller cabs in the wagon also  Also, AWD > * IMO

Honestly though, it seems like the WRX/STI is a love/hate car.  You either absolutely hate the way they look like some people I know, to the point they don't wanna even try driving one, or you like the way they look.  I love them... just wish I could afford one for myself  

[Darkstalker]

I'm actually looking at the Ford Escape Hybrid that's coming out soon.  Yea, it's an SUV, but since I drive 40 miles each direction going to work, it will help out quite a bit.  Not to mention it isn't a goliath SUV, so I'd be OK with driving it.

[zaphod]

I'm actually looking at the Ford Escape Hybrid that's coming out soon.  Yea, it's an SUV, but since I drive 40 miles each direction going to work, it will help out quite a bit.  Not to mention it isn't a goliath SUV, so I'd be OK with driving it.

Have you test driven the Escape yet?  I didn't care for it's handling when I recently gave it a whirl.  (40 mpg is not too bad a selling point, tho')

[danny_galaga]

get one o them there model t fords. i hear tell that the real new fangled ones have one o them starting motors on it AND headlights!

[Magnet_Eye]

some ideas :

-corvette

-mini cooper

-hugo

-powell-peralta

-redline

huh?



 

[Minwah]

I will not ever buy another Volkswagen.
I will not buy an Audi because it is just a glorified Volkswagen.
I will not buy a BMW.

Don't be put off by todays new ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- cars.  VW used to make some decent cars, early 60's (or previous) Beetles for instance...just about no-one makes a decent car any more

I admire your stand on Audi and particularly B*W tho.  B*W deserve to burn in hell IMO.  At the risk of offending someone, and also making a generalisation which I wouldn't normally do, all B*W drivers (in the UK at least) are complete and utter w*nkers - why anyone would want to tarnish themselves with that brush is beyond me...

[danny_galaga]

Mazda Rx-8

That's rear-wheel drive.

so?
edit: just re-read your criterion. dont you like going sideways?  

[danny_galaga]

personally i'd go with jacktucky's suggestion.

the only experience i've had with new cars in your neck of the woods was with my hire car- a 2003 mustang. was quite nice but the speedo kept cutting out. car had only turned over 10000 miles when i was driving it. suggestions are futile (but fun) since who can say what car YOU like until you drive it. i can say that once you guys start paying realistic prices for fuel the RX8 is gonna be a killer since rotaries are notoriously thirsty. and they've probably improved them but if youre just driving around town, rotaries are tedious- they like to be going hard all the time, not much power down low. like a two stroke bike.

oh, i did test ride a buell once. got it to 200km/h ok, but when i slowed down it kept wanting to stall. guess thats what happens when you try and get any sort of power out of such a goofy old motor   oh, and it didnt handle very well. gear box was surprisingly smooth though. so, if you just take away the engine and frame the buells not a bad bike  

[Luxury]

I admire your stand on Audi and particularly B*W tho.  B*W deserve to burn in hell IMO.  At the risk of offending someone, and also making a generalisation which I wouldn't normally do, all B*W drivers (in the UK at least) are complete and utter w*nkers - why anyone would want to tarnish themselves with that brush is beyond me...

Don't hate BMW because of their drivers.  They make good cars.  Unfortunately, you are absolutely 99.9% correct about the people who drive them (myself excluded).  Even though I drive one myself - I hate all the people who drive them.  Fortunately, starting 5 years ago everyone started trading in their bmers for Excursions and Escalades.  Now THERE are drivers someone can really hate!  

[rchadd]

RX8 6speed 230Bhp version.  its 22K GBP in the UK

I got one! in sunlight silver  

awesome performance and a very practical 4 seater.

worth a test drive just to hear the engine rev to 10K - it has a rotary engine!

drinks petrol though - probably ok if you're in the US but not if you live in the UK

guaranteed to turn heads  

in case you're not familiar with this unique piece of engineering take a look at these pics http://www.rx8media.com/thumbnails.php?album=5

more details on the engine etc at http://www.mazdarx8.co.uk/

[danny_galaga]

RX8 6speed 230Bhp version.  its 22K GBP in the UK

worth a test drive just to hear the engine rev to 10K - it has a rotary engine!

drinks petrol though - probably ok if you're in the US but not if you live in the UK

like i said  

but we are forgetting that he wants a fwd car. hey how about a caddy! fwd, made in america, big n comfy. its probably got a monitor in it to mame as well...

[rchadd]

so whats the problem about rear wheel drive?

[GadgetGeek]

so whats the problem about rear wheel drive?

They are a b!tch on snow.  Especially if you are stuck at a stoplight going up-hill.  Most states don't allow studded snow tires.

Go with a nice boring Buick Century or similar.  Not too expensive, big enough that you won't get squashed by an SUV but still small enough to fit in a parking spot.  Mediocre mileage, fair amount of interior room.  Bland but functional.

[Jakobud]

I admire your stand on Audi and particularly B*W tho.  B*W deserve to burn in hell IMO.  At the risk of offending someone, and also making a generalisation which I wouldn't normally do, all B*W drivers (in the UK at least) are complete and utter w*nkers - why anyone would want to tarnish themselves with that brush is beyond me...

Interesting comment coming from you Minwah. From your name and your website I gather that you are into the Mini Coopers.  And it is BMW that is selling the new Mini's. What is your opinion on this?

[SirPoonga]

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII

the baddest ass japanese import car to be sold in the US to date. AWD turbo, runs 13.1 1/4 mile stock.. need i say more

Lets start a WRX vs Evo flame war  I prefer the WRX Sti.

[SirPoonga]

Lexus IS300.... It's a sick car and right at $30k

The Toyota Altezza is a rear wheel drive, he didn't want that.

[pointdablame]

Lets start a WRX vs Evo flame war  I prefer the WRX Sti.

* pointdablame *high fives* SirP  

GadgetGeek - I'm sorry.  If you prefer to drive a car that is "bland but functional" I am truly sorry.  I could never do that, I would need to own something that at least appeals to me visually if nothing else.  There are plenty of functional cars that don't have to be bland, especially in today's market.

Then again, I'm 20 and wish I had a fleet of sports cars, so what do I know

EDIT: haha, cool. I never realized that YaBB uses the " / me " command. Neat.

[SirPoonga]

Ok, I think BMW and Audi are pretty good.  I've had good luck with subaru and VW before too.

However, I am a toyota fan.  I'd love to get my hands on a US Spec Lotus Elise, it has a beefed up Celica engine and tranny.  

A toyota will last forever.  My parents camry has 280k on it right now.  My corolla, before the accident was at 150k, I bought it at 110k.

Mazda makes awesome cars, you can't go wrong witht he older mazda protoges and 626s or the new replacements of the mazda 3 and 6.

The new ford focus isn't bad, ford put the protoge engine in it (ford owns mazda).

Now, do you want brand new or used?

For used go for a late nighties subaru, toyota corolla/cellica gts, mazda, ford focus.

I see toyota put a bigger engine the in the corolla now, a 170hp  The corolla xrs.  The toyota matrix (also pontiac vibe) is a glorified corolla.  Not a bad utility car.  Not as big as an SUV.  

For american cars, personally I like ford.  They seem to keep up with the times.  Chevy hasn;t changed too much.  Dodge hasn't either.  Chevy has pretty mucht he same car names that they've had since the early 80s.  Their look hasn;t been updated too much either.

Now some people will say why don't you buy american.  Well, today since all the big companies own most of the other companies (ford own mazda and a bunch of european companies, GM owns chevy, pontiac, opel, and other european companies, chrysler the same) that they aren't really american anymore.  Actually, I know the older ford contour had a good ammount of german parts in it.  The companies grab the good parts form each brand.  Like ford just put the mazda engine in the focus.  You also will find cars that are the same across companies due to deals.  Like the Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix.  GM is just putting the pontiac badges on it.  It's still a coroalla engine with corolla body with corolla tranny.

[GadgetGeek]

GadgetGeek - I'm sorry.  If you prefer to drive a car that is "bland but functional" I am truly sorry.  I could never do that, I would need to own something that at least appeals to me visually if nothing else.  There are plenty of functional cars that don't have to be bland, especially in today's market.

Then again, I'm 20 and wish I had a fleet of sports cars, so what do I know

I'm 38 with 2 small kids and a mortgage, so "bland but functional" is about as good as it gets for a while.  At 21, my first real job and a brand new Mustang! (I know, doesn't count because rear-wheel drive)

[SirPoonga]

Hehe, at 21 and first job I still had my college car (a '88 corolla) but a brand new motorcycle

[NiN^_^NiN]

Well at 20 (just turned 21) i got a 94 Ford probe GT

Nice sports car look its classic sports car look with a big amount of space

but as i Live in australia and the car cost $16,000 for me and your in america i woudlnt say get that

the american version is a piece of crap no offence it has so many things wrong and it even had fires under the hood for no reason.

Lucky the australian version has no shuch problems and is great 2 bad it cost $64,000 in 94 only 300 in australia so thats why i got it nice car thats not generic

but yeah this didnt  really help u much

i dont know how much the mazda's are there but the mazda 6 is nice if u guys have it there its AWD i think and sporty family car

its really a RX-8 but a family car version not rotary version but then again i dont know if u have that car there australian and american cars are very different. Im sure u would have mazda 6 tho  

[SirPoonga]

i dont know how much the mazda's are there but the mazda 6 is nice if u guys have it there its AWD i think and sporty family car

Damn you foreign people, you get the cool cars!.  For AWD in the US, for a car, we only have Subaru and Audi.  The Toyota Matrix has an AWD version but it has the corolla engine, so that's going to suck.  You guys also got the Celica GT4, damn you again!  Who cares if it doesn't pass US emissions, bring that bad boy pikes peak racer over here!

There is rumors a mazdaspeed 6 is coming to the US, will hav e a turbo engine, at least a bigger engine, and AWD.

I like the 6, it's a pretty nice car to drive.  I have driven the rx-8.  That's crazy!  I want one

The unfortunate thing with the US is that we think japanese cars aren't suppose to be powerful.  SO what did they do, they brought some of their luxary/more powerful cars over here under a different brand name.   Acura = Honda, Lexus = Toyota, Infinity = Nissan.  

The Acura TSX = European Honda Accord
The Acura NSX = Honda NSX everywhere else in the world.
The Lexus IS300 = Toyota Altezza.  Yes, those altezza style tail lights you hear about came from this car.  It is not euro tail lights!!!!  Sorry, my pet peve, seeing that style of lights advertized as euro altezza tail lights.

Early 90s Toyota Corolla = Geo Prism.  Another deal Toyota and GM did, simular to the current Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix deal.

I'd also like to see the Ford Puma in the US too.  That's a decent car.

Oh yeah, to add ot my "buy american" statement.  The new Pontiac GTO, I believe that is pretty much a direct import from a GM owned european company, possible Opel, I don't remember.

This is done with some brand of motorcycle too.  but there usually only one company owns the brand but they will rename the bikes for different countries.  The Honda 919 int he US is the European honda Falcon (if I reember).  In the US you can't get eh wind deflector for the bike, you have to import it form europe.
My bike, the Yamaha Vstar, is known as the Dragstar through out most of the world.  I have a 1:18 model of my bike with the dragstar logo on it.

[shmokes]

I was going to recommend a mini cooper....great car for the price, but then noticed two small kids and assume you want a four door so car seets aren't a pain in the ass.

In that case, I'll second (or third) the vote for a WRX.  It's a four door, but totally retains the cool factor.  Let me just say one thing.  Test drive.  That car is definitely a fun drive.  Get the wagon version if you need it to be even more family friendly.  That car is great because it's so unassuming.  You get in this little wagon that has all the makings of a boring family car, but it drives like a little race car.  They're also really safe cars (other than the fact that they beg to be driven dangerously).  Up until recently you couldn't even get one with a sunroof because there are roll bars built into the roof.

Stop by a Subaru dealership and take one for a spin.  You'll be tempted.

[SirPoonga]

Actually, I think the Mini cooper, in the US, is expensive for what type of car it is.

I also wouldn't get the WRX for a family car.  The interior is rather cheap.  You are paying pretty much for the turbo engine, awd, and suspension which are upgraded compared to other cars near it's price range.  It is a nice car otherwise.

However, the Subaru Legacy and Outbacks would make a good family car.

Hmm, Infinity G35 has an AWD version, but I think that is on the higher end model above $30k.  Otherwise it is frontwheel drive if I remember.

[TOK]

I'm checking in late on this, maybe you already decided, but given your requirements I'd got for a Mazda 6 or Nissan Altima 3.5SE.

I think the new Mazda 6 5-door that has the hatch but looks like a regular 4 door is really sharp.

The RX-8 is cool, but they're all horsepower and not much torque, so you have to drive it like you hate it. No sure of your choice of transmissions, but I think it's a car that'd suck hard with an automatic.

I'm also amused by people saying that new cars are crap. As someone who  helped my dad maintain his "great" 60's cars, I can tell you that it wasn't unusual to start having major problems before 100,000 miles. Carbs would always start acting up before 75,000 miles, and anyone who's driven an old car might know that most had a ritual to get it running on a damp morning. Pump it 3 times it'll start, accidentally pump it 4 and you might as well take the bus.  

Low end cars like Hyundai have warranties that last past when a lot of 70's cars were heading to the boneyard. Anyone who thinks 50's, 60's and particularly 70's cars are better than new ones has either never owned one, or only drives one to car shows 5 times a year.

[danny_galaga]

so whats the problem about rear wheel drive?

They are a b!tch on snow.  Especially if you are stuck at a stoplight going up-hill.  

snow...snow. oh yeah, i saw that stuff on tv once!! hehe. hey, i had a thought the other day. our friend dennis leary has a great suggestion:

"You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac Eldorado Convertable,
Hot Pink!
With whale skin hub caps,
An all leather cow interior,
And big brown baby seal eyes for headlights.
YEAH!
And I'm gonna drive around in that baby,
At 115 miles per hour,
Getting one mile per gallon,
Sucking down quarter pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds in the old-fasioned non-biodegradable styrafoam containers.
And when I'm done sucking down those grease ball burgers,
I'm gonna wipe my mouth in the American flag,
And then I'm gonna toss the styrafoam containers right out the side,
And there ain't a ---gosh-darn--- thing anybody can do about it,
You know why?
'Cause we got the bombs, that's why. "

ok, so its rear wheel drive. just drive it backwards for 1/2 mile per gallon performance to boot!!

[danny_galaga]

Oh yeah, to add ot my "buy american" statement.  The new Pontiac GTO, I believe that is pretty much a direct import from a GM owned european company, possible Opel, I don't remember.

pontiac gto is made in australia   . its a rebadge of our holden monaro

[NiN^_^NiN]

Oh yeah, to add ot my "buy american" statement.  The new Pontiac GTO, I believe that is pretty much a direct import from a GM owned european company, possible Opel, I don't remember.

I think that Pontiac is ours.

We have a car called Holden Monaro which was a cult hit in the 60's and 70's my dad has a 69

and we made the new 1 and gave it to pontiac as they really wanted it but im pretty sure it was called the GTO.

Was shuch a nice car and we have alot of better rear tail lights for it than the orignal but im sure u guys have them to

But to be honest i like FORD and HOLDEN australia cause they make there own cars and dont use alot of imports from USA or euro

the FORD FALCON has been the main aussie car and i like it

they look great have great power but there damn safe

Australia has the higest safety standard in the world. Thats why the probe i got had a HUGE overhaul and no problems u see with the american version are in the australian version cause of the safety standards. Plus the probe ST is the GT in usa

Ok back to blabbering about the falcon i like these cars cause they have always been the family/busniess/sports car all in 1 plus there damn powerful.

Holdem and ford have built great looking cars over the years and they have there own style they didnt use any USA or euro style which i think is nice cause it a different kind of car compared to all the other cars.

here's a pic of the XR6 i dont like the style that much cause it the same as the normal FALCON where they usually were the same as the falcon but made very different looks on the same shape.

but i think it looks nice i'll stop blabbering now

[danny_galaga]

we're not helping maraxle much but im learning heaps. for instance, the old holden monaro was rebadged in south afrika as the chevrolet ss!!  :

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/612595

[Santoro]

so whats the problem about rear wheel drive?

You obviously live in a warmer climate!

Front wheel drive 'goes where you tell it' in snow and pulls the back of the car with it, while rear wheel drive goes wherever it feels like, regardless of where you are steering to.

It is a dramatic difference in cold climates.

[danny_galaga]

yes but rear wheel drives are heaps more fun for burnouts and circle-work  

[Minwah]

Interesting comment coming from you Minwah. From your name and your website I gather that you are into the Mini Coopers.  And it is BMW that is selling the new Mini's. What is your opinion on this?

That is exactly where my hostility for B*W comes from!  They bought Rover purely to get the Mini brand, made what I think is a hideous piece of trash and call it a Mini.  Then they wrote to all the little companies like 'Mini Shop' etc. and told them they weren't allowed to use the word 'Mini' in their shop / company titles!

Now people turn up to 'real' Mini shows in massive B*W Mini-wannabe's and think they're cool.  Everyone who has a real Mini thinks they blow...