Ultimate Console Arcade, How Bout some Comments!

[the3eyedblindman]

Ok, Im looking for help and comments here...

I have purchased a sega genesis, and a ps one, in the hopes and dreams of building an arcade out of those two.
I chose the sega for classic games such as nba jam, moonwalker, street fighters, mortal kombats, paperboy, pacman, t2 arcade, and many others.
The psone is for newer games such as namco museum, mortal kombat trilogy, capcom vs. marvel, and so on.

The arcade will be the design of the arcade called "Ultra quad" from dreamauthentics.com, and have a 27 inch tv. It will look like it has a four player control panel, but really it will be controls made from 2 sega controllers and 2 ps one controllers.

1. I am looking for peoples views on this, do you think it is a good idea, waste of time, ect. Give me comments.

2. Few questions about control hacking. I have heard to purchase 2 off brand controllers for the ps one because they are easier to work with... true? and 2nd, on the original sega 6 button and 3 button controllers, the soldering points have some black stuff over them, do I solder to these or scrape it off, does anyone know how to do this.

3. Is there any way of hooking up pc speakers to the tv or consoles to give this good sound, what should i do for my speakers.

Im really looking forward to this and want to start soon, so please write back one here with comments ( please ) and questions answered (please) thanks people, The3eyedblindman.

[Chemixtry2]

I think it is worth it to build cabinet because nothing can replace the feeling of standing in front of an arcade cab. If you are looking to play classic games I would go with Mame though (over 2000 games).  I am working on a cabinet that will have a computer (mame) and a Dreamcast (for new games) in it- the best of both worlds. As for hacking the game pads the black stuff does have to be scrapped off to get to the metal contacts.

[ChadTower]

It would be a lot easier to put a PC in there and run emulators for both consoles...

[abrannan]

It would be a lot easier to put a PC in there and run emulators for both consoles...

Seconded, and it's worth noting that the PS1 is very bad at running the Capcom fighters, due to memory constraints.  If going the PC route is too expensive, look into finding a Dreamcast.  You won't need to chip it to run the emulators that are available for it, and you can run it to a TV with no problems.





Yes, yes, I know I'm Dreamcast obsessed....

[sfetaz]

The reason why you want to use 3rd party controllers is the exact thing you notice on your genesis controllers.  That black stuff is some type of protective electric conductive material that sony, sega, etc. uses on their controllers that cannot be soldered to.  Find cheap 3rd party sega genesis controllers if you can.

I agree with the other guys, a PC and emulators would be better for what you wanna do.  However my arcade cabinet will support both consoles and PC, so I understand where you are coming from.

To hook up PC speakers to your consoles, find a good 2.1 speaker system that hooks into your PC sound card via one 1/8th plug.  Then goto radio shack and get the following

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F009&product%5Fid=42%2D2540

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F001%5F003&product%5Fid=274%2D886

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F001%5F003&product%5Fid=274%2D1548

------

If you want to hook up 2 consoles at the same time you will also need two of this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F001%5F002&product%5Fid=274%2D511

[Tahnok]

Or, you can do both. I am hoping to run MAME32, NES, N64, PS1, Xbox and Gamecube on my cab. Since I am using a TV as a monitor I can just run all that stuff right into it. Though, I doubt I will be able to interface some of the newer controllers into my CP.

[big_garryb]

isnt it easier running emulators for these? i have GBA, Genesis, N64, Nes, Snes, PS1, Neogeo, amiga, C64, Amstrad, Speccie emulators and roms - aint loaded them up yet as still building. but i aquired them some time ago.

i just thought this would be easier than using the actual systems.... although i am going to be adding my PS2.

[Howard_Casto]

You wanted opinions, so here it is.....

Based specifically on what you want to do and the games you mentioned it's probably one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.  Why?  Well let me go down the list.  

#1, Cost:  

For each system you will have to hack a couple of pads.  Some of the older pads are cheap, but most are still 20 bucks a pop. Plus your going to have to get a high-end av switcher to handle all of those systems and switch automatically. That's going to add up.  It would be more econimical to put a low-end pc in there.  

#2. Game selection:  Literally every game you mentioned is emulated by mame.  Up until around 1998, arcade versions of games are almost always superior.  So you are going to all of this trouble to play crappy, watered-down ports of the original.  

#3.  Complications:  You'll have to cross wire all of those pads to a common control panel.  It's going to be an ungodly mess. And the more complicated something gets, the more things can go wrong.  

#4.  Common sense:  So you like reaching your hand into the back of a cabinet and trying to stuff a cartridge in a slot in the dark, trying not to knock over the other 12 cosoles stuffed in your cabinet?  How about standing up, 1 foot from the screen, playing console games, which the majority of are designed for long term play (e.g. several hours, not several minutes)? Consoles are consoles for a reason.  


Even running emulated consoles on a mame cab isn't the best idea in the world because of the things I just said in #4. I do run a select few console games on my cab but they are special cases.  While I'm rambling on here I might as well put down the ONLY reasons to run console games on a mame cabinet.  

#1  The game in question is a "sequel" to an arcade classic that was only released on the console. (Like final fight 2/3 and slaughterhouse 2/3)  

#2 The game in question has an arcade port, but it isn't emulated yet (the only example of this, in this day and age is the newly released chankast emu, which runs naomi/cps3 ports)

#3 The game in question is one of those magical games that fit well on a cab and include all of the follow traits:

It uses all digital controls.

It has large, easy to read menus/graphics.

The gameplay type is short and uncompilcated.  


It sounds like there are a lot of games that would fall into that category, but not really.  To give an example, here are some popular console games that won't work and the reasons why.  

Super Mario World:  

The game is extremely long.
Game loading/saving is done via a farily complex menu system, which slows down the pace and detracts for the arcade "feel" you are looking for.

Street Fighter 2:

emulated by just about every arcade emu out there

Mortal Kombat:

Ditto

Sonic:

Actually not too bad, but again, the game length is waaay to long, even compared to some of the more complex arcade platformers.  


I'm not saying all of this to discourage creative ideas, but to keep you form making mistakes that have already been made by others countless times.  It's been tried again and again, but in the end, anyone who made a "console cab" will tell you that eventually it was either abandoned, or upgraded to a proper mame cab.  


Consoles have their place, and usually that place is under your tv in your living room next to the couch.  

[Dave_K.]

It's been tried again and again, but in the end, anyone who made a "console cab" will tell you that eventually it was either abandoned, or upgraded to a proper mame cab.

I now have two console cabs (a Dreamcast cab and Playstation2 cab).  In fact the DC cab started out as a Mame project, but was upgraded to a proper console cab.  I think the class of cab playable console arcade games is a lot larger than you realize (mostly because of your biases against arcade ports)...IMHO.  

[gnateye]

just to chime in in defense of the dreamcast cab, i have one and it gets used as much if not more than my mame cab, in fact im making a 2nd dreamcast cab just for driving games.

but i must also agree that with the genesis and ps1, you would be better off being less complicated and using emulators.

in my opinion

[abrannan]

It's been tried again and again, but in the end, anyone who made a "console cab" will tell you that eventually it was either abandoned, or upgraded to a proper mame cab.

I now have two console cabs (a Dreamcast cab and Playstation2 cab).  In fact the DC cab started out as a Mame project, but was upgraded to a proper console cab.  I think the class of cab playable console arcade games is a lot larger than you realize (mostly because of your biases against arcade ports)...IMHO.  

And I won't even get into how rediculous your comments are on comparing the cost of a console cab with a Mame PC w/IPAC.

IMO, most of Howard's arguments stand up except for one notable exception:  The Dreamcast.  In the Dreamcast you have a certain combination of timing and traits that buck the trend.

1. Cost - The Dreamcast can be had for $15-$20 dollars, and interfacing it to an arcade monitor can be done for an additional $15.  Stores are now clearing out their old Dreamcast stock, controllers can be had for as little as $2, but probably for no more than $10.  Games are also found very inexpensively.

2. Game selection:  It runs MAME, and many console emulators.  It's the same hardware used in Sega's NAOMI cabinets.  The arcade ports are perfect or above.  There is a class of MAME arcade games that do not run on a Dreamcast, but there are tradeoffs with any system.  (i.e. you get to play Soul Calibur, but sacrifice X-men:Children of the Atom)

3. Complications:  I'll go out on a limb and say you'll run into fewer complications setting up a Dreamcast cabinet versus a PC cabinet.  No Software configuration, no Front-ends, no resolution tweaking, no config files, no encoder re-programming, no drivers.  You do have a bit more soldering/internal work than with a PC.

4. Common sense:  A little upfront planning (making sure you can change discs, and have available disc storage) can go a long way here.  So can game selection.  Yes, I'm not advocating you go play Shenmue on a DC cab.  



However, the examples given lack a certain effectiveness.

To give an example, here are some popular console games that won't work and the reasons why.

Super Mario World:

The game is extremely long.

Extremely long?  I know you're a fighting game fan, but extremely long?  Longer than most arcade platformers, yes, but EXTREMELY long?  C'mon Howard, your arguments have enough weight to stand on their own without exaggeration.  Even Super Mario 3 was playable in the arcade.  Console RPGs are extremely long, but not SMW.

Game loading/saving is done via a farily complex menu system, which slows down the pace and detracts for the arcade "feel" you are looking for.

1. Having four save slots doesn't qualify as a faily complex menu system in my book.  Hell, the Midway initials/pin code record keeping for NBA Jam is more complex.

Street Fighter 2:

emulated by just about every arcade emu out there


Mortal Kombat:

Ditto

And?  
Does the availability of an arcade port negate the existence of the console version?
Does it make the console version unfit to play on a cab?  
Does it mean there's a more accurate version out there, if you want to take the time to find a rom, install and configure an emulator, sacrifice daily mundane use of a PC, and purchase a keyboard encoder?

In case you're wondering, the answers are No, No, and Yes, respectively.

Sonic:

Actually not too bad, but again, the game length is waaay to long, even compared to some of the more complex arcade platformers.  

So the Megadrive version of Sonic, from the arcades, is also unfit to play in your cab?

And the game length of, say, Pac Man or Galaga, or any other "infinite" game is somehow shorter?

I'm disappointed, you usually make a much stronger argument than this.  It's like you're not even trying anymore.  

[Dave_K.]

  abrannan, I was really refraining from posting a similar post back to Howard, knowing he baits these types of responses. I even pulled back my one comment about the cost (which you caught in your quote).   Any argument with Howard is not worth it.  He does make me laugh though since it scares off the lazy newbies.

[abrannan]

Me, I argue for the sake of arguing.  You tend to learn more if you hear from both sides of an issue, so I like to think of it as a sort of public service announcement.  I need to find somebody that I can do a point/counterpoint feature for the site with.  That and I'm so dang blasted high on the Dreamcast I'll take any opporunity to shout it's praises to the heavens.  

[Luxury]

That and I'm so dang blasted high on the Dreamcast I'll take any opporunity to shout it's praises to the heavens.  

You are a wise man.

[davieboynj]

I'd still agree with Howard's prognosis.  

Since I built my mame cab, i have no use for any console version of an arcade game.  I will never play SSFII on my super nintendo again.  I have no use for Final Fight.  

And also in the same breath I have to agree with the dreamcast being the exception.  A great deal of my Maming is on Street fighter VS...  of which the greatest is Marvel Vs Capcom 2...  which i don't believe was ever even an arcade game.  

An (unstarted) project of mine is to tank my existing entertainment center in my room and convert it into an arcade unit consisting of my:
25" TV
Dreamcast
super nintendo
NES
PS
VCR
DVD

Now this may seem very similar to the project that inspired this thread, but it's a little different, and to me makes more sense.  Only the dreamcast will be wired to the controls.  Maybe the super nintendo, but i doubt it, since i would just as soon play the game on my Mame machine.  or if i was to play Snes, i would just as soon use the controller as it's more conducive to the games i play.  

If you do follow through with this project, i would seriously recommend you pick up a dreamcast, and a few of the games recommended here.  A playstation/genesis/n64 arcade does not merit the work you have to put into a cabinet.  


 

[the3eyedblindman]

just to let everyone know this topic is well aged, and i am not going this any more.... ater researching and obtaining the games i am now doing a mame and dreamcast arcade with a four player slik stik style panel made from the mameroom ultimate arcade 2 plans.... very aged topic i guess.