All-around rotary solution?

[placroix74]

Hello,

I've built myself a cabinet with joysticks only, but am now looking into ways of enabling driving/paddle games and those with a rotary joystick for aiming as well, on a small-sized control board.

My holy grail would be a single upgrade for all of them. I had originally spotted this : https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joystick-accessories/ikari-12-way-rotary-upgrade-for-servostik-j-stik/, but (correct me if I'm wrong) this rotary upgrade is :

• Not continuous ("Rotary movement issues a keystroke or gamepad button press for each of 12 clicks")
• Has only 12 signals per revolution, which is way lower than most numbers found here : https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinner_Turn_Count
  

... making it useless for anything other than aiming.

I expect that :

• a separate spinner could be OK for driving/paddle, but clunky for aiming;
• aiming can be replicated with buttons.

Is there a way to do this without a dedicated spinner? Am I hunting for a unicorn?

Thank you

[PL1]

I've built myself a cabinet with joysticks only, but am now looking into ways of enabling driving/paddle games and those with a rotary joystick for aiming as well, on a small-sized control board.

My holy grail would be a single upgrade for all of them.

Is there a way to do this without a dedicated spinner? Am I hunting for a unicorn?

If you're trying to cover all of the games in those categories, you are indeed hunting for a unicorn.

You can find some control combinations that will work well enough for some of the games, but there will be compromises and some games like Arkanoid will never play well without a dedicated high resolution spinner.  What games are on your "can't live without it" list?
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#What_type_of_build_meets_my_needs.3F

You may want to look into this GRS rotary joystick.
- It has switchable modes/handles for the "clicky" games like Ikari Warriors (mechanical rotary games) or "non-clicky" games like Caliber .50.
- It also has push/pull switches for games like Discs of Tron and Forgotten Worlds.



You will need to configure your settings in MAME, especially for the mechanical rotary joystick games.   
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#MAME_Settings_for_Mechanical_Rotary_Joysticks


Scott

[BadMouth]

I'm not aware of any plug and play high resolution rotary joysticks.  I vaguely remember some commercially available licensed table top machine that included classics and had a rotary stick that could be used for driving games.  I can't find it now though.  You would probably have to roll your own.

Just FYI some of the driving games do not play well without an analog gas pedal.
In Pole Position for example, without being able to only partially depress the gas pedal the tires will squeal on takeoff and cost you enough time to prevent you from progressing in the game.  Other games like IVAN Stewarts Offroad play fine with virtual pedal to the metal.

This can be overcome somewhat with the Digital Speed setting that sets how fast the virtual analog control ramps up when you press the digital input (button).  Read up on MAME's analog controls and get a good understanding of them. https://docs.mamedev.org/usingmame/ui.html#analog-input-settings
It may be possible to tweak these settings well enough to steer with a standard joystick, but I haven't invested any time in testing it.

There was no JAMMA equivalent for analog controls, so every machine was different and every game needs at least the sensitivity adjusted to play as it should. 

I messed around with diy rotary solutions on my joysticks, but do not have enough depth in my control panel and could feel the added hardware while playing other games.  For aiming in games that had rotary sticks, I ended up mapping buttons to turn the character one notch per press (thumb and middle finger turning with index finger firing and ring finger off to the side for grenade).  It feels pretty natural.  Not sure if it's in the new wiki, but here is where I quoted it from the old wiki:

CALIBER 50
GUERILLA WAR
HEAVY BARREL
IKARI WARRIORS
MIDNIGHT RESISTANCE
SAR - SEARCH AND RESCUE
TIME SOLDIERS
VICTORY ROAD
XYBOTS

From the BYOAC Wiki
http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Joysticks#MAME_Settings_for_Mechanical_Rotary_Joysticks

MAME Settings for Mechanical Rotary Joysticks

 For mechanical rotary games:

 "Input (this Game)" menu

     Positional Analog to none

 "Analog Controls" menu

     Positional Digital Speed = 0
     Positional Sensitivity = 100

 For optical rotary games:

 "Input (this Game)" menu

     Dial Analog to none

 "Analog Controls" menu

     Dial Digital Speed = double the default value
     Dial Sensitivity = default value

[BadMouth]

I'll go ahead and throw the important part of the mame instructions linked above.

Each emulated input has four settings on the Analog Controls menu:

The increment/decrement speed setting controls how fast the input value increases or decreases in response to the controls assigned to the increment/decrement settings.

The auto-centering speed setting controls how fast the input value returns to the neutral state when the controls assigned to the increment/decrement settings are released. Setting it to zero (0) will result in the value not automatically returning to the neutral position.

The reverse setting allows the direction of the emulated input’s response to controls to be inverted. This applies to controls assigned to the axis setting and the increment/decrement settings.

These are for when digital inputs (keyboard keys, standard joystick microswitches, etc) are substituted for analog controls (steering or gas).

[haynor666]

This GRS Rotary stick is quite good. It's even right now on sale - 40% off. I'm using it mostly for Ikari style games but in spinner mode it can used with Caliber 50 or even with Taito Aim'n'fire games.

It can be used as spinner but I don't recommend it. Better get dedicated spinner.

There is cheap one, low resolution but works - https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005801158755.html
It supports driving wheel from the same company - https://aliexpress.com/item/1005006007495738.html

[pbj]

That joystick has been 40% off for months. 

[haynor666]

Well, ok but I hadn't been on their site for very long

I bought mine long time ago. Two actually.

[pbj]

How do you like it?  The shipping cost keeps killing the deal for me.

[haynor666]

Easy will be copy/paste my review from their site "

"Great joystick with a room for improvement.
For a start two issues:

- the first thing most important in fact is SOFT TWIST of knob - during playing You can accidentally twist knob very often and that is really annoying. Using 8 way knob reduces this a bit but that's not that how SNK games should be played. Imagine shooting in front then stopping (because You have limited ammo in Gondomania or Ikari Warriors) and starting again just to realize that You are shooting on the back :/

- joystick has weak component and it is cable from shaft - very thin and fragile. Connector is glued to prevent cables from damage very close to connector but still can be damaged.

Asides from this is GREAT joystick. Plastic and metal components are in my opinions very high quality. Maybe it even better than orignal LS-30 from SNK Unlike spinner from tsticks (jtag to USB cable) this joystick uses standard USB-C cable which can be easily replaced. Of course it's also high quality and it's longer than cable that I received with spinner. Joystick rotation can used even as spinner (smooth rotation like normal mouse after You set it correctly) which is quite handy in such games like Forgotten Worlds (originally designed to play with separate spinner, needs sensivity boots in MAME), Caliber 50 or even Disc of Tron or Zwackery (yes - this stick has push/pull option just like tsicks spinner). It can be used nicely even in Arkanoid (it has some inertia just like spinner but I prefer to play with separate spinner from tsicks) Aim'n'fire mode from such games like Wild Western or Sheriff also works great and again this is the only replacement option that I know for those games. For some people setting but be a bit pain but there is additional small PCB that helps (never used actually - I figured hot set games using just rotation).

Would be nice for future (impatient) customers to provide examples/tutorials hot to set each game in MAME. It's not that hard. It took me about 1 hour to understand how it works.
Also some sort or small commandline program that could set joystick in desired mode would be great.
Maybe some other knobs shapes and/or colours ?

Box I treat as bonus - it's thicks but made from paper so it's good for testing but for long term it's better to use dedicated metal (it has spacer for this) or wood box.
Buttons supplied are good - standard Baolian (chinese) product. I also treat those as bonus"