What type of video output is this?

[entomophile]

I have an old TV Ping Pong arcade.  The "monitor" is just an old black and white vacuum tube television.  The connections are as in the picture.  The game plays perfectly but the image is shrunken both horizontally and vertically.  It seems like a waste of time and money replacing the caps and maybe some vacuum tubes on such an old monitor.  I'd like to upgrade to a solid-state TV.  I tried the TV in the second picture but could not get it to work.  What type of video signal is the board putting out?  If I knew, I could better determine how to hook it up to a modern TV.

The schematic can be found here http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/T/TVPingPong.pdf

Thanks,
Greg

[Phreakwars]

BAHAHAHA... You REALLY can't figure that out??? Man, I feel so old. 

Oh wow... but anyways, get yourself one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-VH58-Matching-Transformer/dp/B00005T3EZ

And then tune the TV to channel 3 or possibly even 4 

No but seriously, I'm not sure about the TV channel since that is an arcade game and doesn't use channels, but the adapter I pointed out will get it converted for you

[JDFan]

HAve you tried adjusting the 2 screws for the v Lin and Height shown on the pic -- those are there for adjusting the vertical and horizontal size of the picture so might just need to adjust them to get the screen the right size.

[entomophile]

HAve you tried adjusting the 2 screws for the v Lin and Height shown on the pic -- those are there for adjusting the vertical and horizontal size of the picture so might just need to adjust them to get the screen the right size.

I did.  That only made the picture smaller.

[entomophile]

BAHAHAHA... You REALLY can't figure that out??? Man, I feel so old. 

Oh wow... but anyways, get yourself one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-VH58-Matching-Transformer/dp/B00005T3EZ

And then tune the TV to channel 3 or possibly even 4 

No but seriously, I'm not sure about the TV channel since that is an arcade game and doesn't use channels, but the adapter I pointed out will get it converted for you

Laugh all you want.  That was the first thing I tried and it didn't work.  I hooked the UHF wires to the UHF screws on the new TV, the one VHF wire to a screw on the transformer.  No luck.  Switched the VHF wire to the other screw, no luck.  Tried all the channels and that little TV/CATV switch on the back.  Nothing worked.

[JDFan]

BAHAHAHA... You REALLY can't figure that out??? Man, I feel so old. 

Oh wow... but anyways, get yourself one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-VH58-Matching-Transformer/dp/B00005T3EZ

And then tune the TV to channel 3 or possibly even 4 

No but seriously, I'm not sure about the TV channel since that is an arcade game and doesn't use channels, but the adapter I pointed out will get it converted for you

Laugh all you want.  That was the first thing I tried and it didn't work.  I hooked the UHF wires to the UHF screws on the new TV, the one VHF wire to a screw on the transformer.  No luck.  Switched the VHF wire to the other screw, no luck.  Tried all the channels and that little TV/CATV switch on the back.  Nothing worked.

TRy connecting the 2 UHF wires to the adapter - and the adapter to the TV VHF input - then the single VHF wire to one side of the UHF connector for the TV -- Seems you're wiring is not matching the schematic so the connectors on the old tv may be mis labelled - as shown in the schematic below there should be 2 VHF and 1 UHF wire from the tv going to the RGB wires of the game. ( So the old TV might actually be VHF on top not UHF as labled on the case !!)

[entomophile]

TRy connecting the 2 UHF wires to the adapter - and the adapter to the TV VHF input - then the single VHF wire to one side of the UHF connector for the TV -- Seems you're wiring is not matching the schematic so the connectors on the old tv may be mis labelled - as shown in the schematic below there should be 2 VHF and 1 UHF wire from the tv going to the RGB wires of the game. ( So the old TV might actually be VHF on top not UHF as labled on the case !!)

Good point.  I'll give that a try tonight.

[entomophile]

TRy connecting the 2 UHF wires to the adapter - and the adapter to the TV VHF input - then the single VHF wire to one side of the UHF connector for the TV -- Seems you're wiring is not matching the schematic so the connectors on the old tv may be mis labelled - as shown in the schematic below there should be 2 VHF and 1 UHF wire from the tv going to the RGB wires of the game. ( So the old TV might actually be VHF on top not UHF as labled on the case !!)

Ok I tried that and every other possible combination on a bunch of different channels and TV/CATV settings.  Still no luck.  What I did discover is that the wire that was connected to VHF on the original monitor carries the sound signal.  And the wires connected to UHF matter which post they are connected to.  Switch them and you lose the picture.  Maybe I need a different TV?  This one has digital channel controls.  Not sure how well it deals with auxiliary inputs.  If I knew what type of signal those wires were carrying, I could better figure out what type of TV and adapters I need.

[PL1]

Look on pg. 3 of the schematic (parts list) you linked in the OP.

The UHF/VHF channel knobs are labeled as "inoperative".

There is a good chance that the original TV was modified to bypass the tuner (RF demodulator) circuits.

You may need to find an RF modulator to take the video and audio signals from the board and up-convert them to either a channel 3 (60-66 MHz) or channel 4 (66-72 MHz) NTSC TV signal for the replacement TV's tuner.

Since your replacement TV doesn't have RCA jack A/V inputs, maybe try running the video and audio signals into the RCA jacks on a VCR. (check signal voltage first -- Composite video standard is 1v peak-to-peak) 


Scott

[entomophile]

Look on pg. 3 of the schematic (parts list) you linked in the OP.

The UHF/VHF channel knobs are labeled as "inoperative".

There is a good chance that the original TV was modified to bypass the tuner (RF demodulator) circuits.

You may need to find an RF modulator to take the video and audio signals from the board and up-convert them to either a channel 3 (60-66 MHz) or channel 4 (66-72 MHz) NTSC TV signal for the replacement TV's tuner.

Since your replacement TV doesn't have RCA jack A/V inputs, maybe try running the video and audio signals into the RCA jacks on a VCR. (check signal voltage first -- Composite video standard is 1v peak-to-peak) 

Well the VCR didn't work either; tried the coax and RCA.  Even played a VHS tape to make sure the TV was working.  I measured the voltage on the video wires thinking they might be composite but I couldn't even get 1 volt out of them?  Look like I'll just have to fix up the original monitor.

[entomophile]

Finally solved this mystery thanks to Andrew Welburn (http://www.andys-arcade.com/) and Hugo Holden (worldphaco.com).

As it turns out, the Pong PCB outputs composite video.  Although the original game has a "television", it has been modified to bypass the demodulation circuits and serve as a monitor, not a TV.  So the screws that look like UHF/VHF inputs are just used as terminals.

The single wire on VHF is the audio signal.  The wires on UHF are composite video (signal and ground).

To get it to work with a modern television, the video wires from the game need to go to the composite video input (yellow RCA jack) on the television.  The audio signal wire from the game goes to audio input RCA jack on the television.  You will need to add a ground wire for the audio.

This game should now enjoy several more years of use.

[nexusmtz]

...
There is a good chance that the original TV was modified to bypass the tuner (RF demodulator) circuits.
...
Since your replacement TV doesn't have RCA jack A/V inputs, maybe try running the video and audio signals into the RCA jacks on a VCR. (check signal voltage first -- Composite video standard is 1v peak-to-peak)

Sorry Scott. It's just not true until someone else says it 10 months later.

[PL1]

...
There is a good chance that the original TV was modified to bypass the tuner (RF demodulator) circuits.
...
Since your replacement TV doesn't have RCA jack A/V inputs, maybe try running the video and audio signals into the RCA jacks on a VCR. (check signal voltage first -- Composite video standard is 1v peak-to-peak)

Sorry Scott. It's just not true until someone else says it 10 months later.

Well the VCR didn't work either; tried the coax and RCA.

To get it to work with a modern television, the video wires from the game need to go to the composite video input (yellow RCA jack) on the television.  The audio signal wire from the game goes to audio input RCA jack on the television.  You will need to add a ground wire for the audio.

This game should now enjoy several more years of use.

Not sure why it didn't work earlier but I'm glad to hear it is working now.   


Scott