New MAME machine

[joeH]

With the addition of the Golden Tee Fore roms finally into MAME, I've decided it's time to retire the old pentium in the arcade cab, and build anew.  The current setup consists of:

ArcadeVGA 3000 AGP Card
Windows XP 32bit
Betson Imperial trisync monitor
SlikStik CO2 panel
MameUI32

My original thinking was to build a new computer with the latest ArcadeVGA card and a used i5-2500k processor.  I've been reading good things about overclocked G3258 chips, but have also seen comments that Golden Tee Fore will need an i7 to run well.  I'm also seeing posts about just buying a used HD4350 and installing crt_emudrivers instead of another ArcadeVGA card. 

So I'm here looking for recommendations for processors which will run GoldenTee Fore without issue (as of MAME .168), and if I should stick with purchasing the newer ArcadeVGA card, or try flashing a used HD4350.  I'm planning on installing everything on Win 7 x64, so hopefully the SlikStik panel drivers will still work? 

Thanks.

[DudeRegular]

So I have a e8400 with the 4350 powering my mame cab. I tested out the GT Fore 06 on it and it just didnt run well with bad audio and some video issues. It was using a version of groovymame somewhere in the mid 160's. It ran ok on my desktop with a 2600K though.

[joeH]

Thanks for the input.  I guess that will definitely rule out the E8400 I had lying around.  I guess it's still between the G3258 and the 2500k.  Does anyone else have any experience with the G3258 and can benchmark the GT Fore games?

[nipsmg]

So I have a e8400 with the 4350 powering my mame cab. I tested out the GT Fore 06 on it and it just didnt run well with bad audio and some video issues. It was using a version of groovymame somewhere in the mid 160's. It ran ok on my desktop with a 2600K though.

I got it to run well using these settings (I don't have the original source URL, forgive me for reposting)

1. Download the chd image, bios, and mame 0.161 or newer

- MameUiFX:
http://mame32fx.altervista.org/download.htm

- Golden Tee Fore! 2006 Complete (v6.00.01) CHD (1gb)
<link removed for reddit compliance, google is your friend>

- Eagle Bios (iteagle.zip) 3.5mb
<link removed for reddit compliance, google is your friend>

2. Install Mame somewhere
3. Put the bios (iteagle.zip) in the roms subfolder of Mame
4. Create a folder in the roms subfolder called gtfore06, and put the chd file in there
(\roms\gtfore06)
5. Right-click the game Golden Tee Fore! 2006 Complete in Mame's game list, select audit.
Right click it again and pick properties. Under controllers, enable mouse support. Under
sound, select Direct Sound, set the sampling rate to 11025, and the audio latency slider
to 5/5 (far right)
6. Start the game, hit tab, select dip switches, and change the resolution to low.

note: the suggested sound and video settings will vary by hardware, these settings should be
optimal for speed.

[haynor666]

Even G3258 clocked at 4.2 it's not enough. Stock 2500k will be slower. Even stock 4670k it's not enough.

Look here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146276.msg1522255.html#msg1522255

[joeH]

Even G3258 clocked at 4.2 it's not enough. Stock 2500k will be slower. Even stock 4670k it's not enough.

Look here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146276.msg1522255.html#msg1522255

Thanks.  Yes, I saw those benchmarks, but that was also 5 versions ago.  If I understand correctly, there has been some optimizations on the driver which has improved speed considerably.  I tested it on my desktop which has a 2500k running at 4.2Ghz and it seemed to run fine.  Without a trackball I wasn't really able to test hitting shots in the dense trees which can slowdown the redraw rate considerably. 

Has anyone benchmarked it in .168 by chance? 

[haynor666]

Why don't You do this Yourself? From my tests on 4670k with turbo 3,8 GHz gtfore05 is still to slow in many places.

[joeH]

Why don't You do this Yourself? From my tests on 4670k with turbo 3,8 GHz gtfore05 is still to slow in many places.

As I mentioned above, I would on my desktop if I could try to get the ball into the heavily wooded areas.  Trying to hit the ball with the gamepad instead of the trackball seems to only hit the ball 5-6 yards at a time in a straight line.

[DarthMarino]

Why don't You do this Yourself? From my tests on 4670k with turbo 3,8 GHz gtfore05 is still to slow in many places.

As I mentioned above, I would on my desktop if I could try to get the ball into the heavily wooded areas.  Trying to hit the ball with the gamepad instead of the trackball seems to only hit the ball 5-6 yards at a time in a straight line.

Just use a regular mouse for your test.

[joeH]

Why don't You do this Yourself? From my tests on 4670k with turbo 3,8 GHz gtfore05 is still to slow in many places.

As I mentioned above, I would on my desktop if I could try to get the ball into the heavily wooded areas.  Trying to hit the ball with the gamepad instead of the trackball seems to only hit the ball 5-6 yards at a time in a straight line.

Just use a regular mouse for your test.

I'll give it a shot again.  There wasn't response to mouse movements upon first firing it up, but I didn't go in and check any of the settings.  I'll take a look tonight. 

[DudeRegular]

Make sure mouse is turned on in your mame ini and you can use it in place of the trackball.

[haynor666]

Thanks for the input.  I guess that will definitely rule out the E8400 I had lying around.  I guess it's still between the G3258 and the 2500k.

E8400 - 1256 (stock) about 1500 (clocked to 3,6 GHz) 
2500k - 1854 (yeah, single core is little slower than on G3258)
G3258 - 1909 (stock) or 2503 (overclocked to 4,2 GHz) so it's even faster than stock 4790.

You will not find anything better for price/power for mame.

[joeH]

@ DudeRegular - Will do, thanks. 

@ haynor666 - Thanks for the benchmarks!  Were those for GT Fore, or a different game?  If the G3258 is the single core king for MAME that helps on the wallet quite a bit. 

[haynor666]

gtfore05   96
gtfore02   101
gtfore03   103
gtfore06   112
gtfore04   146
gtfore01   155
bbhcotw   192

Those are benchmarks from my file. As You can see gtfore05 is totally uplayable while gtfore01 can be played with many slowdowns in 163. Switching to low res mode in those game can help as I heard.

That's why I tested gtfore05 (Golden Tee Fore 2005 Extra) and right now it's a bit better - 160 % on 4670k so it might be even 190 % on G3258 4,2 GHz. gtfore01 show less improvement - 157% on 4670k, about 20% more than in version 163.

After a year G3258 with some small board build on H81 is still the best solution power / price.

[joeH]

gtfore05   96
gtfore02   101
gtfore03   103
gtfore06   112
gtfore04   146
gtfore01   155
bbhcotw   192

Those are benchmarks from my file. As You can see gtfore05 is totally uplayable while gtfore01 can be played with many slowdowns in 163. Switching to low res mode in those game can help as I heard.

That's why I tested gtfore05 (Golden Tee Fore 2005 Extra) and right now it's a bit better - 160 % on 4670k so it might be even 190 % on G3258 4,2 GHz. gtfore01 show less improvement - 157% on 4670k, about 20% more than in version 163.

After a year G3258 with some small board build on H81 is still the best solution power / price.

Thank you for testing!  It looks like the G3258 is the way to go. 

[haynor666]

That 160% is still not enough, trust me. You will get loots of slowdowns during play. Hopefully it's not a shmup or platform game so slowdowns are not too painfull.

[joeH]

That 160% is still not enough, trust me. You will get loots of slowdowns during play. Hopefully it's not a shmup or platform game so slowdowns are not too painfull.

OK, I'm a bit confused.  Maybe I don't understand your numbers correctly?  I guess I had it in my head that 100% meant fully playable.  At 160% there is still slowdown?  It also looks like you were saying that the G3258 would outperform the 4670k as MAME is single threaded, which is leading me to believe that was the way to go.

Are we just at the point where none of the GT Fore games are fully playable without slowdown yet, regardless of CPU?

[haynor666]

Results are average speed of attract mode running 299 seconds but speed during test vary from more than 200 % to about 74 %.

Those tests will never guarantee that any game that runs above 100 % in test will run also 100% during real play. From my experience minimum is 200% from benchmark and sometimes even 200% will not guarantee 100% during play. st-v and cv1k drivers are good examples. Benchmark are runned without sound and video output (though emulated).

[joeH]

Results are average speed of attract mode running 299 seconds but speed during test vary from more than 200 % to about 74 %.

Those tests will never guarantee that any game that runs above 100 % in test will run also 100% during real play. From my experience minimum is 200% from benchmark and sometimes even 200% will not guarantee 100% during play. st-v and cv1k drivers are good examples. Benchmark are runned without sound and video output (though emulated).

Thanks for the explanation regarding the benchmarks.  Based off what you're explaining to me, I'm still inferring that an overclocked G3258 still yields the greatest speeds?  If so, that's great.  I'll buy it and wait for improvements in the driver code to hopefully bring it up to fully playable.  If say, an overclocked 2500k or 4670k isn't necessarily a better value in expense, but will yield closer to 100% playability now rather than later, I may still consider the additional expense. 

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions!

[haynor666]

G3258 is still the best solution if we think about price and power. Ita can be even overclocked to 4,5 but when voltage is raised a bit but I prefer to stick to safe 4,2 GHz. My entire PC build on this processor cost me only 250 USD (all new parts expect Asus Radeon 4350).

[joeH]

G3258 is still the best solution if we think about price and power. Ita can be even overclocked to 4,5 but when voltage is raised a bit but I prefer to stick to safe 4,2 GHz. My entire PC build on this processor cost me only 250 USD (all new parts expect Asus Radeon 4350).

Great, then I think that's what I'll go with, thanks.  Which mobo are you using may I ask?  I've heard that the OC potential on the H81 boards aren't that great. 

[haynor666]

G3258 overclocked to 4,2 GHz, Asus H81M-E (yes, some boards with H81 can be overclocked easily), Kingston 2Gb value, Radeon 4350, Seagate 500 Gb SATA III and some 400 W PSU (don't remember brand but is was trusted but cheap, note that with 4350 You don't need any more power).

[joeH]

G3258 overclocked to 4,2 GHz, Asus H81M-E (yes, some boards with H81 can be overclocked easily), Kingston 2Gb value, Radeon 4350, Seagate 500 Gb SATA III and some 400 W PSU (don't remember brand but is was trusted but cheap, note that with 4350 You don't need any more power).

Thanks again for all the info!

[haynor666]

Please look - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146276.msg1522255.html#msg1522255

All the info is there.

[joeH]

Please look - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146276.msg1522255.html#msg1522255

All the info is there.

Yep, I had already reviewed that thread, thanks.  I was kind of reopening the conversation as we're 5 revisions past .163 and I believed (hoped?) that the driver optimization on the GT Fore games had improved enough to the point that an overclocked i7 wasn't the only CPU now capable of running the game smoothly. 

[haynor666]

Take a look here - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

The highest single core score belongs to 4790k and that a little better than overclocked G3258. We have to wait couple of years before we can get sufficient processor.