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Author Topic: New member, first project.  (Read 2992 times)

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CatLar0912

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New member, first project.
« on: October 03, 2015, 04:48:20 pm »
First and foremost I thought I'd stop by and introduce myself.  I'm new to all this, however come across custom builds recently and have to say it has inspired me to dig out the tools and give this a go.

I'd just like to apologise if I have posted this in the wrong place, I don't really know what I'm doing!  Ha

My questions are....

1.  I'm torn between what size monitor to go for, I'm considering a 19" monitor so that it remains square screened and the images look better. What would you recommend...

2.  I've decided to do a tall cabinet rather than the tabletop.  Can anybody help me with the design plans or point me where to look?

3.  At present I have no kit such as tower monitor etc etc...  would you build the cabinet then get the kit to fit afterwards or get the kit,  then build the cabinet...?

The latter sounds the more obvious choice but I'm wondering if it would be easy to mount a monitor in a cabinet that is already built... my thoughts are that the cabinet will be wider than the monitor as I'll have a bezel around the edge of the screen so I could make it fit by altering the bezel rather than cabinet.... Also I want this to be a 2 player cabinet.

Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Frank Drebin

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2015, 10:31:14 pm »
1.  I personally don't like the look of a large bezel around a square monitor.  You can make something look good with a widescreen, I went with a 24" last time and am squeezing in a 27" in this time.  Your cabinet is going to be at least 24" wide so might as well get as much bang for your buck, just IMO....

2.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118612.0/all.html

^all you need to know to build your first cabinet.  OND's design looks great.

3.  I would build with a monitor in mind and a control panel in mind.  The computer can wait till the thing is built.




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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 11:21:36 pm »
First place I would start, and this might seem strange.. Is the control panel.. I wouldn't worry about what kinds of buttons, or what kind of joysticks, worry more about how you want it to look, how big you want it to be. Easiest, and cheapest way of figuring that out before you do anything else, is get a nice size piece of cardboard, something to make 1 inch circles with, and a blade to cut it to size.. Make a mock control panel, set it up on a table or something around the same height that it would be when built, have someone else stand next to you and pretend they are player 2.... does it feel right? Are you too close to each other? Is the space too big? Did you remember to add admin buttons? Is that where you want the admin buttons? Are you even going to use extra admin buttons or just use the shift function on an iPac? The main EXTRA buttons you want to think of, are COIN, ESCAPE, PAUSE & ENTER. Will they be on the panel or somewhere else?

After you have that figured out, the project is gonna start to build itself. You'll get a better idea of how wide it will be and how big of a monitor can fit in it. My advice on monitor size is the same advice I give people who I have built computers for...  Monitors last a LONG LONG time, through many hardware changes. It is a wise investment to just GO FOR IT, and get the biggest one you can afford that fits in the space you have for it. You will NEVER EVER regret going big the first time around, but you most certainly might regret going small. IMHO, I actually think a 19"... for an arcade, is too small to be enjoyable, unless of course, you have a bartop arcade. I know on my next build for my office.. I'm going 27". A medium, of course, would be a 23 or 24" inch... and if you think about it. Anymore, a 23-24" screen is what... a dollar or 2 more then a 19"?? Really no excuse NOT to go bigger, especially when you yourself are in control of the size of the cabinet in the first place and aren't using a kit.

megamoze

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 03:41:35 am »
1.  I went with a widescreen 24" monitor to go in my 24" wide cabinet.  Basically the largest size screen that would fit.  I love it.  Plenty big for both widescreen and vertical games.

2.  Plenty to be found online.  Just search around for a basic style you like.  I made some modifications, mostly to make more efficient use of the wood, but I loved the basic design.

3.  I got the software running on my main desktop, then built the CP, then built the cab, then got a replacement system that would live permanently in the cab.  Ultimately I feel this was a mistake since my desktop is far more powerful than the dedicated system I got for the cab.  I got used to the desktop and I feel that the game system is underpowered.  I'm going to be building a new desktop soon, so I'll be replacing the system in the cab with my current desktop.

Good luck with everything!  I still try to play on my cab at least once a day.  It's a great way to wind down at the end of a long day.


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CatLar0912

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2015, 07:59:55 am »
Thank you guys for your replies.  Very helpful indeed.  Much appreciated.  So you all seem to think a wide screen monitor rather than the 19" one.  Will the quality not diminish somewhat on some games that where not cot for wide screen?  What I don't want is to bios a beautiful looking cab and then have the black bars on each side of the screen because the game doesn't fit.   Forgive me if im sounding dumb I'm not the best with computers.

At present I use a network as my home compote so I will need to get a desk top at some point however it will be a 2nd ebay purchase.

I'm thinking the spec requirements should be at least:
6gb ram
40gb memory

Can anybody advise any further?

Xiaou2

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 08:07:22 am »
 I think you may want to do a bit more research before diving in.

 Also, do not take anyone's words as completely true or good advice.

 Im going tofirst refute the comments said already:

 1)  Controls are the most important feature of your machine.     You need to know which games you want to play, and what are the best controllers to use for them.    Then you need to make a comfortable layout with them.

 2) 19" monitors are Not too small.   Pretty much every arcade game from the 80s, and many well into the 90s... used 19" arcade monitors.   It was pretty much the standard monitor size for the longest time.

 To know what size monitor...  you need to know what kind of cabinet you are going to build.

 A)  If its based on an older classic cabinet such as Galaga... then 19" is the perfect size.   These cabinets have you very close to the monitor.. and only 1 person is playing on them at one time.   Galaga has a cabinet that has enclosed side-walls.  Your head is pretty much stuck inside.. and it helps to block out distractions of other people, other sounds...etc..   and keeps you far more focused on the game you are playing.

 The sides also:

   1) Block glare from room lighting /sunlight
   2) Makes a nice reflective channel for sound to bounce around in.. directing it right to your ears,  rather than leaking in other directions.
   3) Can sort of amplify the sounds, due to the shape of the cabinet.  Further can create resonate effects, from both the inner part of  the cabinet, as well as the sidewall area.


 B)  Some classics like Robotron have dual player setups, and do not have the side-walls.   ... But again, they do have the monitor very close to your eyes... so 19" again works perfectly.  Making the monitor too large, when its too close to your eyes.. would make you have to pan around to see everything.  That would result in a lot of gameplay problems... leading you to early deaths.

 C)  Games like Mortal Kombat often used 25" monitors.   They were further away from your eyes...  and the cabinet did not have enclosed sides... allowing for many people to see the screen from nearly every angle.

 D)  Some Fighting games and other later era machines used Pedestal style cabinets. They have larger monitors, placed many feet away from the player.    This was used a lot of the time to attract large groups of people, so that everyone could see the gameplay.   It was also used in some simulator games, to give a larger sense of motion.

 E) The end of the Arcade era, have used High Resolution monitors.. such as LCDs.    This is often seen on more modern racing games.
These work good for being able to run PC games on your machine, as well as older emulated games.  However... the look they present may not be completely favorable on the older games.  Especially because LCDs do not look very good when not being used at their naitive resolution.  Even then... its a completely different display technology, so its always going to make the games look too 'Clean', 'blocky', and the colors will not be correct.

 F) Then you have to decide if you want to see about using a real acracde monitor,  and old CRT TV, or an LCD.   Each option has positive options, as well as negatives & drawbacks.


 Other disputes:

 Is the space too big -   This is Irrelevant to functionality.   Games were only optimized for space, so that the Operators had more room for more games.   Many of the games were build with young and thin kids in mind as well.   Theres no reason why you should limit comfort, just because the various people here do not care for the look or the relative size compared to the Arcade machine sizes.

 Looks take Priority - I also disagree with this.   Function is far more important than looks.   You can have a pretty looking car... but if its missing brakes, has horribly uncomfortable seats that do not adjust far enough back (cramped),  and handles like a freight truck... then its not going to be enjoyable, no matter how nice it looks.


 I think the best thing to do... is start playing some of the different games that use alternate controls, such as spinner and trackball games.
See if you like them... because you may quickly find out that you really want to have the proper controllers to use them on your machine.

 Then look into games that used combination of unique controllers... such as Tron,  which has a Spinner and a Trigger stick.   Actually, Mad Planets has the same controller setup.. and its awesome fun.

 Do you like shooters like Galaga?   If so, you might want at least one classic leaf-switch button to play it with.. instead of the typical microswitches.  Rapidfire games can cause fatigue to your hands quickly.. if you use microswitches.  Leafs are much lighter to depress.. and you can lightly bounce or "Vibrate" them on and off with almost no effort at all.    However, leaf controls such as joysticks, are not always as accurate... so they are not really optimal on direction critical games like Fighters.

 Do you like Ms Pacman?   Games like this used a 4 way joystick.   It makes turning the corners in the game quicker and easier.   While some joysitcks can be switched between 4 and 8 way modes...  its best to have one that is Physically Restricted.

 Do you like Analog games?   Games like Outrun used a 270 degree steering wheel and analog pedals.   Afterburner II used a flight stick.  Some of these games will not play well using digital controllers.

 And there are also special driving games that use a 360 degree wheel.  (If can rotate in either direction, infinitely, without any restriction)    Games like SuperSprint used them, and are a blast to play.   You can use spinners to play these games as well.    A full wheel version might be preferable, depending on your tastes.

 There are controls like shifters to consider.

 And there are unique controllers that are specific to one particular game.  For example... 720 degrees used a very unique spinner that has an angled handle attached to it.   Sinistar used a 49 way stick.. that has a special rubber spring system... for a LOT more control of the ship.  There are Pull and Release controllers for golf, baseball, and simulated pinball games.

 And far more, than Id ever have time to type out.

 Look for the links to special controller based games, and start playing them.    Then you have some form of base to form what you want to build... and can get better help in that direction.


 If you just want something quick... you can always just make a stand-alone control panel too.   It could be a simple prototype for testing / playing... until you finalize your opinions and tests.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 08:10:12 am by Xiaou2 »

CatLar0912

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 08:53:12 am »
That was one almighty read however very informative.  To be honest the kind of games I'll want to play are the old sega genesis/mega drive and Nintendo NES games.  Perhaps a few N64 games too.  Anything else I can take or leave.  I won't be needing a trackball for the games I wish to have.

I think I have an idea of what I want already as it's not just a spare of the moment thing... I've been giving this some thought for a long time. 

Truth be told I'd be happy with mario and sonic alone ha.  Maybe streets of rage and golden axe... 

Anyways I thank you for taking the time to reply it really is appreciated... Im still undecided with the monitor so back to the drawing board for me.

I have an old lcd 32 inch TV just gathering dust... so I could go big but think it loses the details of the games

JDFan

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2015, 09:12:26 am »
Another thing to keep in mind is what actual physical space do you have for the setup -- If going large screen you need more space to place it and may need to assemble it inside the room it will occupy or adjust the plans to keep it small enough to get through all doorways !

Depending on the build a 32" might be too big (test the actual spacing and see how close you will be to the monitor while playing - then stand in front of the TV at that distance and watch a program for awhile to see if there is enough space between you and the monitor to see the entire screen (many TVs have terrible viewing angles so if not perfectly centered you get a darker\different color screen) and see if being that close hurts after awhile.

Might also consider a Pedestal build if going the 32" route that way you can adjust the distance between you and the monitor, can use the screen for watching movies, tv shows when not playing and can also upgrade to a larger screen later if you want since you are farther away from it.

Lots of possibilities and which is best only you can decide - best Advice I can give is to think it through and plan before cutting any wood and where possible test the setup to make sure ideas actually translate to the build before final build. THen also remember it is designed for your fun so if it works for you it doesn't really matter what others think and there is always time to change things later if you find some thngs don't work.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 09:14:33 am by JDFan »

Token

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2015, 09:22:39 am »
  To be honest the kind of games I'll want to play are the old sega genesis/mega drive and Nintendo NES games.  Perhaps a few N64 games too.  Anything else I can take or leave.

...
 
Truth be told I'd be happy with mario and sonic alone ha. 

Why not build a console emulator that plugs into your TV?

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2015, 09:38:14 am »
That was one almighty read however very informative.  To be honest the kind of games I'll want to play are the old sega genesis/mega drive and Nintendo NES games.  Perhaps a few N64 games too.  Anything else I can take or leave.  I won't be needing a trackball for the games I wish to have.
You know that's console games. These are best played on a console, not an arcade cabinet.

Quote
Anyways I thank you for taking the time to reply it really is appreciated... Im still undecided with the monitor so back to the drawing board for me.
I have an old lcd 32 inch TV just gathering dust... so I could go big but think it loses the details of the games
So you're going for LCD/LED and not CRT? Then you should keep in mind that the monitors back in the days were 4:3 monitors. Playing an arcade game on a widescreen monitor is just.... weird.

Phreakwars

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2015, 10:30:21 am »
About the only advice I have for the computer, is get one that you can modify the BIOS boot logo on. You don't HAVE TO do this, but in my opinion, it makes the arcade cabinet look more like an arcade cabinet and not a computer when you have a customized boot logo instead of seeing the post screen or the words "DELL" or "HP" flash across the screen when you turn it on.

I won't say what hardware CPU/RAM/VIDEO you should use... there are too many different variables and opinions out there on that. No sense in confusing someone more by giving my own personal opinion on it, but I will say my FORM FACTOR of choice is either ITX or Mini-ATX.

ladysephiroth

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2015, 11:09:07 am »
I'm gonna second the idea of a console emulator that hooks to the TV.  This can be easily done with an inexpensive computer in your choice of OS, and you can even get USB versions of the retro console controllers for that authentic touch! I did this with a Mac Mini and it's a lot of fun to kick back on my sofa and play Super Mario 3 and Phantasy Star. 

If you want to get into arcade games and you don't have space for a cab, you can build a CP that talks to this machine as well and grow from there. 

CatLar0912

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2015, 01:45:03 pm »
I'm not limiting myself to just console games though.  I'm quite partial to mortal kombat tekken Street fighter etc.  I've decided that I want an arcade machine just the finer details now as what size screen etc... Cheers for all your advice guys but I'm sold on doing an arcade machine add is something to work on of a larger scale and something I can have in my man cave that the wife has have in to me having!

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2015, 01:46:38 pm »
Wow. Lots of good AND bad advice in this thread.

Xiaou2, Token, johnrt and ladysephiroth have all given you good advice.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2015, 02:45:34 pm »
It's always nice to see an X2 Wall-o-Text(tm) that is solid advice.

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Re: New member, first project.
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2015, 05:42:43 pm »
That was one almighty read however very informative.  To be honest the kind of games I'll want to play are the old sega genesis/mega drive and Nintendo NES games.  Perhaps a few N64 games too.  Anything else I can take or leave.  I won't be needing a trackball for the games I wish to have.
You know that's console games. These are best played on a console, not an arcade cabinet.

Quote
Anyways I thank you for taking the time to reply it really is appreciated... Im still undecided with the monitor so back to the drawing board for me.
I have an old lcd 32 inch TV just gathering dust... so I could go big but think it loses the details of the games
So you're going for LCD/LED and not CRT? Then you should keep in mind that the monitors back in the days were 4:3 monitors. Playing an arcade game on a widescreen monitor is just.... weird.

+1

Welcome to the Forum - and as Yotsuya has stated, there will be lots of advise (good and bad) and opinions (lots of)

I have built a reasonable number of arcades now with a range of different screen sizes / types - personal preference is CRT then LCD (with SLG), then LED (in that order), 19" 4:3 LCD, 20" CRT, 22" 16:10 LCD, and 32" 16:10 LED (if you can find) in Car / Shooting cabs

The 19" suits the style of cabs I like most, and almost all the type of games I like. It also offers the widest possible choices of readily available Bezel artwork

If you are looking for a good result for your first build, building something from established plans [ http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Cabinet_Plans ]and artwork [ http://vectorlib.free.fr/ ] is the best way to gain confidence, get good feed back from your family/Friends, stick your toes in the water (so to speak)
I'm sure this will garner lots of criticism from the creative types here pushing for new concepts / originality, but's it's your first, and as most of us can affirm, unlikely to be your last - so baby steps isn't a bad thing
Almost all of us have an ambitious project sitting in our workshop gathering dust because we've hit a pot hole - if you do this on your first build I suspect a lot of would be arcade hobbyist exit at that point.

Something you may also find helpful (if going down the 19" LCD 4:3 path) is a 19" black plastic bezel http://www.classicgamerooms.com/arcade-parts/monitors/19-inch-lcd-monitor-bezel-detail.html - When I first started, routing was the new skill I had to learn (and possibly the scariest), If I had known about these I think I would have jumped into the hobby a couple of years sooner - definitely have built my first cab faster, and maybe even allowed to have had in the house (the result with bezel artwork is really nice - and easy)

I mostly build with JAMMA boards vs MAME (I do have 2 MAME Cabs) - again personal preference, I like the appliance style of operation in my Arcades (I work in IT and hate having to "Fiddle" with OS's / batch scripts etc to maintain / support something in my personal time) vs eating into my gaming or build time.

..anyway all the best, and enjoy your journey!

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