Star Trek TV series...

[shponglefan]

Lately I've been hankering to watch some Star Trek.  The only series I have much experience with is TNG; I watched it growing up.  I opted to try watching it again mainly for nostalgia, but honestly it's not nearly as good as I remember.  The two things which grate on me is the general lack of character development and the excessive technobabble.  It also seems lower budget than I remember.

But I still want to watch some Trek, so I'm wondering about the rest of the series.  I've also seen a little bit of DS9 back when it was on, but never really got into it.  Ditto with TOS, and to be honest I'm not sure if I could get past the cheesy 60's designs.

Then there is Voyager and Enterprise, neither of which I've watched.  From what I've read, Voyager is generally regarded as pretty poor.  And Enterprise ended up getting canned from declining ratings.

So given the above, is it worth exploring other Trek series besides TNG?  Or should I keep watching TNG and see if I warm back up to it?

[Louis Tully]

.

[menace]

I agree about DS9--first time through I was pretty 'Meh' about the whole thing--it seemed so boring stuck on a station--what I liked though was that it really delved into the characters and they weren't all one trick ponies like the klingons (honour,blah,honour,blah,blah).  Second time through I was a bit older and really dug it.  I like TOS for some mindless campiness and TNG sometimes had some great storylines.  Voyager didn't really click but I actually did like enterprise off and on...

[Generic Eric]

I enjoyed TOS & TNG.  Both because the are Star Trek, but the certainly have different styles.  TOS seems like retro future.  Don't know if that makes sense. 

I liked DS9, but I agree it had a slow start.  TNG had a rough start and as I've heard, it had a shaky start too.

Voyager was more of a "if you want to watch TV on the large screen, this is it" situation.  I thought  the holographic doctor was cool, but otherwise they should have called it "Spaceship Diversity."

[popsicle]

I think I've watched every Trek episode ever made via Netflix over the last 5 years or so. I never watched DS9 or Voyager when they were running, and only saw a few TOS growing up.

TNG is great, but DS9 is my favorite (Cardassians = Nazis in space), but I really like the story lines and look of the original (it helps that NF has the updated TOS with re-done graphics and such).  Voyager starts out pretty dull but gets way better in season 2.  I think I'd put Enterprise at the bottom of the list, although I enjoyed it too.

[wp34]

TOS is far and away my favorite.  Enterprise had a lot of potential but just didn't work.   I do like it better now going through it a second time though.

The thing with TNG is it seemed like every other episode was solved by Data using a tachyon burst.   

On a side-note this would be a great thread for Howard to make a grand re-entrance.

[SavannahLion]

I watched all the Star Treks over the years and probably liked DS9 the most, though I likely won't watch it again. TNG and Voyager were fun but their story arcs feel incomplete, like the old Dr. Who stuff. Enterprise had an interesting premise but was seriously flawed in execution. They get passable grades for first viewing but low scores for repeats.

If If you can't get into a particular series, don't bother trying. It's like trying to get into old episodes of Twilight Zone or something, they're not for everyone.

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises. Star Wars (toon though, might as well watch Cowboy Bebop) is the obvious choice, but there's also Stargate both I like. Never could get into the new Battlestar Galactica, the character reboots were too jarring, but then I haven't seen enough of the original either. Then there's ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up bizarre like Lexx, Farscape and Red Dwarf. I saw most of the first two back when but could never bring myself to watch RD to avoid shattering what I love about the books.

[ark_ader]

When they start screwing around with time travel, it is better to switch off and watch a documentary or a good book.

[menace]

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises.

+1 to this--stargate has a huge (10 seasons I think?) catalog of good stuff as well as stargate atlantis.  I loved the new battlestar (after you get over the admittedly jarring reboot).. even Babylon 5 is worth a view (graphics are admittedly dated but it had a great 5 season story arc that gradually built up)..

I could never get into the lexx, red dwarf type of series--maybe just didn't give it enough of a try...

[menace]

Maybe this will rekindle an interest in TOS:

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/cto/4873367721.html

[DeLuSioNal29]

I like Voyager the best myself.  Probably because the series really developed the Borg race.  They eventually took the Borg technology and used it against them.  Also, I like that the series ended and they actually got back home.

And this:



D

[Louis Tully]

.

[Locke141]

DS9 is hands down the best. You will have to get through a season or two that have there share of not great episodes. By the time the war with the Dominion starts it's hard to stop binge watching. You just need to tolerate the boring Bajoran episodes. 

When it's good Next Generation is really good, but there are some terrible episodes as well. Like most TV shows it took them a while to find there groove.

star trek enterprise S1 was ok and S2 was really good. S3 was not great, they should have stayed away from time travel. It's to bad it was a cool premise and there was a lot there to work with, like this.
   

STV just is not worth it. There are some good episodes here and there but its not something I would recommend. 7of9 (Jeri Ryan) is super hot but that's it. Does anyone recall when it came out that Jeri Ryan's congressman husband (R) D-bag forced her to go to sex parties, where she would cry as he would try to force her in to group sex?



     

[Generic Eric]

Time to tag this.

[shponglefan]

   

And now I'm not reading this thread at work anymore. 

[shponglefan]

I like Voyager the best myself.  Probably because the series really developed the Borg race.  They eventually took the Borg technology and used it against them.  Also, I like that the series ended and they actually got back home.

And this:

To be perfectly honest I actually find the existence of 7of9 on the show to turn me off from watching it.  And I say this as a red-blooded male.  I like the idea of having a Borg character on the show, but to have one whose primary purpose is eye-candy detracts from that concept.

[shponglefan]

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises. Star Wars (toon though, might as well watch Cowboy Bebop) is the obvious choice, but there's also Stargate both I like. Never could get into the new Battlestar Galactica, the character reboots were too jarring, but then I haven't seen enough of the original either. Then there's ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up bizarre like Lexx, Farscape and Red Dwarf. I saw most of the first two back when but could never bring myself to watch RD to avoid shattering what I love about the books.

Oh I've watched a lot of other sci-fi (except Stargate which is also on my list of shows to get to one day).  Doctor Who is my favorite by far (both old and new series).  The new BSG is up there as well. 

But it's the dearth of good sci-fi that's led me back to watching Star Trek again.  And especially since I've grown bored of other series like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones.

[shponglefan]

The thing with TNG is it seemed like every other episode was solved by Data using a tachyon burst.   

That's exactly my issue with the show.  They create they goofy sci-fi situations where they're trapped in some sort of field or facing a warp core breach or whatever.  And then they come up with some completely random techno-gobblygook to get out of it.

To me, it sucks out any possible dramatic tension the series would otherwise have.  It's like the Enterprise is one giant deus ex machina.

[shponglefan]

So I started watching DS9 and am a few episodes in.  Immediately I am liking it so much more than TNG.

The biggest difference is the characters.  On TNG everyone is just so... bland.  There's no real drama between the main cast.  In contrast, the characters on DS9 seem to have much more dynamic and interesting relationships.  I'm particularly liking the tension between Kira and Sisko, as well as Odo and Quark's relationship of one-upsmanship.

If DS9 actually gets better as the series progresses then I think I'm really going to enjoy this series.

[adder]

DS9 is cool i expect u will enjoy it
ps. watch out for the guy below, his name is 'morn'.. it's funny he never shuts up... eventually there's a good episode all about him 

[Locke141]

And now I'm not reading this thread at work anymore. 

Made safe for work. After LT's DeLuSioNal29 Jeri Ryan pic's I thought we already crossed the rubicon on that one.

Also I fix a typo about STV not being worth it that read as DS9 not being worth it. BTY, I today agree about 7of9 not adding to the show.

...then they come up with some completely random techno-gobblygook to get out of it.

If that turned you off of Next Generation it seem to me to be much worse in STV. It was not all bad but it was not my favorite.

DS9 gets better and better over time. The creators worked on next generations and wanted to do a star trek with long story arks. 

The original movies, besides for the first one, are all good.

[SavannahLion]

DS9 is cool i expect u will enjoy it
ps. watch out for the guy below, his name is 'morn'.. it's funny he never shuts up... eventually there's a good episode all about him 

That is probably one of the most memorable episodes really. Those damn beets.

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises.

+1 to this--stargate has a huge (10 seasons I think?) catalog of good stuff as well as stargate atlantis.  I loved the new battlestar (after you get over the admittedly jarring reboot).. even Babylon 5 is worth a view (graphics are admittedly dated but it had a great 5 season story arc that gradually built up)..

I could never get into the lexx, red dwarf type of series--maybe just didn't give it enough of a try...

Lexx and Red Dwarf isn't for everyone. If you liked Hitchhikers Guide, (the book, not that movie) then you would like Lexx and RD. Otherwise,    No one is forcing you... of course, I've always secretly wondered why no one bothered to make a porn film based on the genetically modified chair from Red Dwarf...

Yeah... even that's a bit much....

But it's the dearth of good sci-fi that's led me back to watching Star Trek again.  And especially since I've grown bored of other series like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones.

Somehow, everyone seems to think SciFi should be campy or B-Rated or some ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. True, there are some pretty good cheesy flicks that are fun to watch but SyFy keeps shitting on the entire genre on a regular basis. So much so that they can't find enough ---smurfy--- films so they have to fill those slots with wrestling. God forbid should they ever actually show a decent film like Night of the Comet or something.  Discovery already does a really good job of it shitting all over genres with their "Fake-umentaries". Google "Great White Serial Killer" to see what I mean. People actually, truly, really believe that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Sigh.... Crap from the North, crap from the South, no where else to go. Perhaps we should start our own channel. 

[Louis Tully]

.

[Locke141]

DeLuSioNal29. Not me. 

Get yo ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- right, foo.

Sorry about that. Fixed. 

[Louis Tully]

.

[Locke141]

There ya go LT.

[Louis Tully]

.

[wp34]

It's like the Enterprise is one giant deus ex machina.

That's brilliant.   

[nitrogen_widget]

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises.

+1 to this--stargate has a huge (10 seasons I think?) catalog of good stuff as well as stargate atlantis.  I loved the new battlestar (after you get over the admittedly jarring reboot).. even Babylon 5 is worth a view (graphics are admittedly dated but it had a great 5 season story arc that gradually built up)..

I could never get into the lexx, red dwarf type of series--maybe just didn't give it enough of a try...

you got most i remember, except Farscape.
It took half a season to take off but it hooked me when it did.

[Louis Tully]

.

[nitrogen_widget]

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises.

+1 to this--stargate has a huge (10 seasons I think?) catalog of good stuff as well as stargate atlantis.  I loved the new battlestar (after you get over the admittedly jarring reboot).. even Babylon 5 is worth a view (graphics are admittedly dated but it had a great 5 season story arc that gradually built up)..

I couldn't finish SG-1. I think I made it to the later 8th or early 9th season and it was a struggle. I never watched the original Battlestar but the new one was great, IMO. I dug the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of that.

Once Magyver left the show I found it hard to watch.
But I started binge watching SG-Atlantis until it disappeared from Netflix.
SG-Universe had some potential but I guess it didn't do to well in the ratings.

[SavannahLion]

If you're finding ST a hassle to watch, try the other SciFi franchises.

+1 to this--stargate has a huge (10 seasons I think?) catalog of good stuff as well as stargate atlantis.  I loved the new battlestar (after you get over the admittedly jarring reboot).. even Babylon 5 is worth a view (graphics are admittedly dated but it had a great 5 season story arc that gradually built up)..

I couldn't finish SG-1. I think I made it to the later 8th or early 9th season and it was a struggle. I never watched the original Battlestar but the new one was great, IMO. I dug the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of that.

Once Magyver left the show I found it hard to watch.
But I started binge watching SG-Atlantis until it disappeared from Netflix.
SG-Universe had some potential but I guess it didn't do to well in the ratings.

Anderson basically carried the show. It was god after he quit acting (didn't he direct or something after that?) The show started to stumble. Atlantis had great potential but the damn writers just had to ruin it with the Daedalus saving their lame plot development.  Universe always felt like it was the studio trying to apologize for their cockup on Atlantis.

[Grasshopper]

To me, it sucks out any possible dramatic tension the series would otherwise have.  It's like the Enterprise is one giant deus ex machina.

Indeed. To a certain extent that's true of all the Star Trek series. It's just lazy writing. The best sci fi series establish clear rules about what is and what isn't scientifically possible early on, and then only break those rules very sparingly.

What I find really bizarre about Star Trek is when they invent (or more often acquire) some advanced new technology, which has the capacity to completely transform human civilisation, in order to get out of a particular hole. And after that episode the technology never gets mentioned or used again!

[Locke141]

The best sci fi series establish clear rules about what is and what isn't scientifically possible early on, and then only break those rules very sparingly.

+1

It's the same with fantasy novels. Using "technolagy"/Magic as some plot filler does not make for good story telling.

B.S.G. did a good job staying in bounds where Star trek sometimes strays to far for my liking. How many times can the discover trans warp? 

[nitrogen_widget]

The best sci fi series establish clear rules about what is and what isn't scientifically possible early on, and then only break those rules very sparingly.

+1

It's the same with fantasy novels. Using "technolagy"/Magic as some plot filler does not make for good story telling.

B.S.G. did a good job staying in bounds where Star trek sometimes strays to far for my liking. How many times can the discover trans warp? 

yep. that warp core was magic.
Or the shield that let them hide in the sun.
Or cloaking technology that was against a treaty the Klingon broke every other freaking episode.....

damn.
I'm such a nerd.

[Xiaou2]

I watched most of STNG, and really enjoyed them. Many Scifi series have god-awful actors... but with Tng, you get a powerhouse jackpot of great actors.

 I didnt like DS9 much.  The capn was boring. & awful,  seemed more like a school principal.  The others were nearly equally as bad.

 I despised Voyager for a while.  Janeway was a real heartless militant wench, with a Capital B.   However, later in the series she lightens up.... and the show started to get good.  Real good.   In fact, the finally... was probably better than every startrek eisode combined... including all the elder movies.   I gota watch it again... Ive seen it at least three times so far.
I would have went to the theater to see that one, if it had been released that way... and would not have felt cheated, like most of the the STNG movies.

 Tried to suffer through the other ST itteration... but it was Way too hokey. The capn choice really ruined much of any hope.  Quantum was face-palm-arrific.  Barely able to suffer through his monotone cheezeball performances.

 Imo, you can have the best story out there. .. but if you dont put high level talent to deliver it... it becomes worse than a gradeschool play. Laughable, unbelievablein any aspect. Cheezy.  Cringworthy.

 Stargate was like this, until ? Universe ?.   That one was amazing.  High production value sets, great stories, lots if twists and suspense, and great actors.

 Another great, was Serenity.  That movie is da bomb.  Supercedes pretty much 98% of all the scifi movies out there.  Some of the greatest acting, and such awesome and believable characters.  Incredible storyline. Great suspense and surprises. Insane fight choreography & displayed skills.

 After that, I had to go back and watch Firefly.  Good stuff.  Too bad it got axed.  But the movie obviously blows the tv series away. Serenity is a must-see.
 
 As for 7 of 9... she was nice on the eyes, but she wasnt merely eye candy. She had depth and range. She was sort of the female data equivalent... but although she was awkward in relations, she wasnt always so naive as data often was portrayed. She was far more passionate and agressive. Yet she still had a very fragile/delicate and warm human side too.

 I believe, much like Janeway,  she may have been written to be semi-unlikeable... but i believe she warmed up much quicker.

 I have a feeling that the actors in Voyager, really grew in talent, as the series got deeper in.  Still, no matter how good Voyager got... I kept wishing  I was watching a new episode with STTNG cast.   Ahh well.

 As a kid I recall hating on ST.  Looked so fake and was so cheesy
.. but as an adult, I can find appreciation of the show.  The actors are good, and the stories are often quite good.. ,to  great.

[Xiaou2]

Cant let go without a shout out about Farscape.  At first it didnt interest me... I think the floating frog thing kinda turned me off initially... but after a few choice episodes, I was totally hooked.

 Some of the best makeup, stage work, creative storylines, and great acting all throughout.  And wow, some of the best ... and most plentiful, female eye candy.

 I Was ticked when they left it hanging on the series canceled end... but so happy when they released the finnally. Too bad it was probably cropped of many great episodes leading up to that point.

 The amazing thing about Farscape, was that each episode felt like a movie.  It really was on that level of quality.

[AzureKnight]

I watched TOS a bit as a kid but it was as a teen when TNG came out that I really became a fan.   Recently my wife and I decided to sit down and watch every Star Trek series/movie in order.  We are currently in season 6 of Voyager (which I never finished originally) and we still have Enterprise to go (which I only saw season 1 originally).

I love TNG but I can understand the complaints.  The characters don't develop much due to the fact that the writers were basically told "continuity is off limits".  So I think what you see is that the actors develop in comfort level playing the characters more than the characters are actually written in a way to develop.  The studio wanted a strong episodic trend because it works better in syndicated reruns.  I think that is why many people ended up liking DS9 so much, it threw that rule out the window and as each season went by became more and more continuity based.  So far I have enjoyed all the series as an adult but my favorite is still TNG (but I do wonder how much of that is due to nostalgia).

As far a looking for other good Sci-Fi, it was mentioned once above that Babylon 5 is worth checking out and I would agree.  As stated the full fledged CGI looks dated (I believe it was the first TV series to do full CGI) but if you can overlook that IMO the show has good writing and character development over a long story arc.  Plus, since the entire story was written up front you don't have all sorts of continuity issues or dangling story threads everywhere.

X2 mentioned Firefly, which is probably my favorite Sci-Fi series.  Damn shame that show got ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up by the network so badly.  I will have to disagree with X2 on one point though, I didn't like Serenity (the movie) as much as I did Firefly.  The series was always a bit lighter and humorous whereas the movie went to a much darker tone and vibe.  I can enjoy darker but I just didn't like it for the Firefly setting as much.  --Real Spoiler under here--> And they killed Wash....that was just wrong.  Killing one of the "warriors" would have been OK with me, but killing Wash was like letting the mascot die.

Yeah, she's nice. But she's no Dax.

AMEN to that 

[Xiaou2]

Well, it was more serious, but that was the nature of the situaions/enemy/plot .   

 Without the deepest darkness, one can not fully appreciate the brightest light.

 Was Luke skywalker and crew always cheery, funny, happy-go-lucky?   Was Darth Vader and the emporer "light hearted" ?
What villian is most recognized in Startrek as the most dangerous, evil, and threatening?  The Borg.   As such... are not the greatest episodes, the most intense and passionate,  ... where the Borg are fought?

 And the Emporer. . Who could ever forget that scene?   Its that darkness that made the impact of the light, so powerful... emotional..moving.

 I wil say, there are movies which are way too dark. The Crow -  was such a film.  The entire film was darkly lit, characters were dark, story was dark... and the so called hero... was also dark.  Dark in a way that Batman, for example,   was never presented. To me, this movie had no redeeming qualities at all.

 Heros will fall. As much as we we dont like to see it happen to those we Love... it does impact us in a way that makes us consider the nature of reality... as well as the true cost and value of what was fought for.

 I think the storyline of Serenity, is a very real threat.. and hopefully,  people will understand the lessons within it.  Sadly, some power monger will try it regardless.  Probably already doing it now. Ugg.