MAME running at 40% only for 1942 (and others)

[EssexMame]

Hi

I am running a later version of Mame (0.149) on an old PC (HP RP5000 P4 2.0Ghz Integrated Intel graphics 845GV with XP). I've upgraded disk drive (250Gb) and Ram (2Gb) from the initial spec. (not for this, just because...)

It isn't coping. 1942 for instance is running at 40% only (F11). It is to a large 20" monitor (HP LP2065) but I have installed the drivers for this and the latest Intel 845GV drivers too.

Could it be the display to the large monitor is struggling? I've tried as d3d and ddraw but neither improves the speed noticably (d3d looks better)

I have HLSL off but I do have the overlay for scanlines in place. I will remove that but I'd not expect that to make so much difference.

Is the PC simply not good enough to cope, even with the simple/older games? It doesn't seem THAT bad a PC for this purpose and I'd really like to get some use out of it for this if at all possible.

[Fursphere]

Maybe try and older version of MAME?  .139 or older.  (the monitor size should have nothing to do with it - its just a display)

I thought there was a big change at .140 that required more horsepower.  I used to run my cabinet on a P4 without issue - can't recall what version of MAME that was though.

[Sky25es]

Maybe you have to close some processes running in the background. Check also if you have HLSL turned on in mame, if so turn it off.

[EssexMame]

I did wonder if the monitor size takes more resource, in some way, from the integrated graphics to handle a larger screen but I was clutching at straws! I will try a few earlier MAME versions. Indeed, is there a good one for the classics (pac man, 1942, space invaders and the like) that I can use - before video or sound changes were made - I've seen it here somewhere before but can't find it...

I've turned of HLSL already - I'll return to complete default settings and see how that works though I'm pretty sure I've tried that with no success.

Oh - and few/no processes running - not even a virus scanner as its an offline PC for MAME only. It's a TinyXP install actually (with drivers) though I had issues on the original XP install and I only installed that to see if it would help/resolve this slowness as an experiment (I'm going back to the original XP)

Duncan

[adder]

because the price is so cheap, i would consider replacing the 2.0ghz processor for a 3.4ghz:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261654256554
i have used this 3.4ghz cedar mill processor and it was perfectly good even with latest mame (eighties games etc, not the more intensive games of course)

[stripe4]

because the price is so cheap, i would consider replacing the 2.0ghz processor for a 3.4ghz:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261654256554
i have used this 3.4ghz cedar mill processor and it was perfectly good even with latest mame (eighties games etc, not the more intensive games of course)

IIRC there was at least one CPU socket change during P4 era. I'm confident an upgrade from 2 GHz to 3.4 GHz will also require changing a motherboard and RAM modules.

Edit: these are your CPU upgrade options if you decide to do so (taken from HP RP5000 quickspecs doc):
Intel Pentium 4 Processors with 400-MHz or 533-MHz Front Side Bus, 512-KB L2 cache
2.0-GHz, 2.4-GHz, 2.8-GHz

[Haze]

1942 does use the discrete sound system for some filters, but that does sound a bit low even considering the hardware (it's possible it was less optimized in 0.149 tho)

[JDFan]

Does the MOBO have a PCI-e slot ?? If so you might try a dedicated Graphics card - From past experience the Intel chipset GPUs are not designed for gaming (even light games) and in many cases really slow things down - Partially also due to it sharing the system RAM which is also running slower than the video RAM on a dedicated video card would be (IF you have an old card around install it and see if it makes a difference.)

[BadMouth]

1942 does use the discrete sound system for some filters, but that does sound a bit low even considering the hardware (it's possible it was less optimized in 0.149 tho)

That's what I was thinking.  When I moved up to v.146 on my cab, 1942, Frogger, Popeye (IIRC) wouldn't run full speed because of the discrete sound emulation.  Other games like Pacman run same as ever. I had a more powerful processor than you're using, so I just had to cut back on the HLSL prescale to get back to full speed.

Not sure when the changes were made.
Somewhere between the late .130's which I was using before and .146

Are you having issues with those other games I mentioned too?

[Haze]

1942 does use the discrete sound system for some filters, but that does sound a bit low even considering the hardware (it's possible it was less optimized in 0.149 tho)

That's what I was thinking.  When I moved up to v.146 on my cab, 1942, Frogger, Popeye (IIRC) wouldn't run full speed because of the discrete sound emulation.  Other games like Pacman run same as ever. I had a more powerful processor than you're using, so I just had to cut back on the HLSL prescale to get back to full speed.

Not sure when the changes were made.
Somewhere between the late .130's which I was using before and .146

Are you having issues with those other games I mentioned too?

If other things run fine then it should be something to consider, the performance did get much worse (and then much better) again at one point, so it might be just as worthwhile trying newer builds as older ones.

I should try compiling some SDL builds again sometime soon, they tend to work better on XP than the baseline ones, which have been struggling for a while (nVidia BSOD with drivers newer than 2007, Intel chipsets randomly failing)

[Sky25es]

why you don't try "Finalburn Alpha" ? Apparently it works better on weaker Pc configs than MAME...

[Vigo]

Monitor size shouldn't matter, but resolution could. Try throttling down the resolution and see if it makes a difference.

[EssexMame]

Thanks all - I'll give these all a try and report back.

[bulbousbeard]

Am I the only one who finds it sad that really smart people spend years of their life improving the emulation of games, and the response is to downgrade to an older version because it runs slightly faster?

I mean, it's $100.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883156414&cm_re=refurbished_pc-_-83-156-414-_-Product

Big deal.

Quality emulation isn't worth that?

[JDFan]

Am I the only one who finds it sad that really smart people spend years of their life improving the emulation of games, and the response is to downgrade to an older version because it runs slightly faster?

I mean, it's $100.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883156414&cm_re=refurbished_pc-_-83-156-414-_-Product

Big deal.

Quality emulation isn't worth that?

+1 -- Though actually you can upgrade to 3GB. of RAM instead of 2GB. and a 3.0 GHz. CPU rather than the 2.33GHZ. And a Small form factor rather than Ultra small (so it has more expansion possibilities like adding a discrete GPU ) and get it for $77 including tax and shipping ( $6 CHEAPER IF IN A STATE THAT THEY DO NOT TAX !!)  Using ArrowDirect.com and their current 20% off code "US20")

[bulbousbeard]

+1 -- Though actually you can upgrade to 3GB. of RAM instead of 2GB. and a 3.0 GHz. CPU rather than the 2.33GHZ. And a Small form factor rather than Ultra small (so it has more expansion possibilities like adding a discrete GPU ) and get it for $77 including tax and shipping ( $6 CHEAPER IF IN A STATE THAT THEY DO NOT TAX !!)  Using ArrowDirect.com and their current 20% off code "US20")

[EssexMame]

It's as much about using stuff we already have and can repurpose, for free, as what solves the problems no fuss. Otherwise, wouldn't I be even better placed to just by a multi-game pre-built arcade machine and be done with it?

Besides, if I bought that PC I'm sure I'd hit other problems with it, or try and emulate later games and encounter the same issues. Simply, I'd not be problem free, and I'd be $100 down (well £'s as I'm in the UK but...). It's about solving these problems anyway - isn't that half the fun?

I'd avoid a DELL but that's another story - so much "extras" installed that whatever advantage the CPU/RAM etc gave would be negated before it was even unpacked.

[Vigo]

Am I the only one who finds it sad that really smart people spend years of their life improving the emulation of games, and the response is to downgrade to an older version because it runs slightly faster?

I mean, it's $100.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883156414&cm_re=refurbished_pc-_-83-156-414-_-Product

Big deal.

Quality emulation isn't worth that?

Like many, I use what is available to me. If that means I need to use a version of mame that utilized more hacks, so be it. I'm good at scrounging, and it has sustained the hobby quite well for me. Have fun finding me sad.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if that machine you linked isn't powerful enough with the current revision of mame. I took a hard lesson that modern mame is enough of a resource hog that a dell with crappy onboard video won't be able to pass muster without a discrete GPU installed. I just tested a dell laptop with a 2.16ghz core2duo that couldn't handle a number of games like frogger until i throttled the resolution down to 800x600.

Going forward, I will be hoarding any and all graphics cards I can get a hold of in order to take the load of the CPU.

[nitrogen_widget]

Thanks all - I'll give these all a try and report back.

For the pre pentium D class cpu's I usually just stick to advanced mame .106.
it has some ok affects for scaling games & scan lines.

It also runs on DOS/Win98, NT, & XP just fine from my tests.

but most importantly, to me, it works with onboard graphics and is really easy to compile on linux.
I run minimal linux distro's on old hardware all the time and .106 plays most roms well on PC's down to a P3 1ghz.

I would try turning off the scanline's to see if that helps.

As for "accuracy" I really have to ask how many people will honestly know the difference between how a 25yr old classic they used to play when they were kids vs. how it plays now on an older version of mame vs a new version of mame.
Especially when they haven't seen one of those arcade games since they were a kid.

Yeah, both me & my friends are that old.

Unless there are serious glitches to the game very few people will notice it isn't "perfect" and of those people who do notice I doubt most of them would even care.

[EssexMame]

Monitor size shouldn't matter, but resolution could. Try throttling down the resolution and see if it makes a difference.

The resolution has a marked difference (on my setup at least it seems). The HP LP2065 was setup at its native resolution (1600x1200) and Mame struggled - it actually crashes, or doesn't take keyboard input at least much of the time and 1942 was running at 40%. Lowering it to 800x600 and it runs perfectly at 100%. Moving it up slightly and it kept at 100% also. Perfect. I'll see how it goes, but that'll do for now - thanks all.

[Vigo]

Glad I could offer a solid solution. 

I honestly wouldn't have known a good suggestion had I not just been through all this myself I a couple weeks ago. Spent a long time unfairly blaming my computers, and scratching my head since I always thought anything 2ghz+ could handle 80's games on mame at least. Just hit me like a ton of bricks how basic graphics usage on a CPU is more than enough to drag down mame to a jittery crawl when using a recent revision of mame.

Oh, and I had the issue with mame not taking my keyboard input as well. Glad for confirmation that was performance related.

[Haze]

it's not so much MAME, it's just that the memory bandwidth etc. for those crappy older systems with integrated video isn't very good, and a screen full of pixels at a high resolution eats it all up before you can do anything else.  Back in the day when those machines were popular we tended to not be running at the same resolutions we run at now so you noticed it less.  It's likely the PC simply couldn't update the entire display (refresh every pixel) at 60fps for the resolution he was using.

[EssexMame]

Oh, and I had the issue with mame not taking my keyboard input as well. Glad for confirmation that was performance related.

Yeah, that was weird. I thought the problem was initially with the keyboard. It worked in Mala, but on launching the game (mame) it no longer did anything. It was like it had hung EXCEPT the screen would update/go to attract mode etc etc I just couldn't put coins in, play, or do F11 for the speed it was running at. It worked in (small) windowed mode though - perhaps the first pointer I had to the display side and your resolution hint sorted it for me, thanks.

I'll see how it goes - now I know why I was getting the problems it makes it easier to make decisions based on it. I can use an earlier mame if I need to for any more resource intensive games but in all honesty I'm aware of the PC limitations and only intend the old classics - perhaps up to 1990.