arcade vga AGP or soft 15kHz

[Qwintin]

Hello,

i recently got a virtua stiker cabinet and plan to transform it into a mame station. I wanted to buy an arcade vga from ultimarc but i realized that the only version sold by now was using a PCIe slot, when i only have an AGP slot available in the motherboard i want to use.

So my questions are:

• is there still anychance to purchase an arcade vga for AGP slot somewhere?
• what difference does it makes to use an arcade vga or soft 15kHz? Is the result somewhat the same? is there any limitations?
• do i have another alternative?

Thanks by advance for you answers,
Qwintin

[rCadeGaming]

1.  Not sure, personally I wouldn't bother with the ArcadeVGA.

2.  Basically, the ArcadeVGA is simpler to set up than Soft15kHz.  Properly setting up native res for a lot of games in Soft15kHz with Powerstript is a lot of work, but it gives you much more flexibility in custom resolutions and timing  adjustments (geometry and refresh rate, very important).

The end result with Soft15kHz is much better when set up properly, so it just depends whether you want to put the time in.  Also, you shouldn't have any problem finding a Soft15kHz compatible card (be sure it's listed as compatible before buying) for a lot less than an ArcadeVGA.

3.  Other alternatives are CRTemudriver and GroovyMAME.  I'm not as familiar with these, but they'll be similiar to the Soft15kHz route, and will probably always be an option if you go with a Soft15kHz compatible card.

Check out the second link in my signature.

[Qwintin]

Thanks for your answer rCadeGaming, your link and comments are helpfull to understand clearly the problem

I may be wrong, but i understood that using the soft-15kHz solution imply  that a manual configuration had to be made for every game of the future mame station. Is it right? i'll have about 160 games in there, most of them in mame but also some other emulators (psx, model2, zinc, gens) and pc games... among that, some will be 3D games (doesn't know if it makes a difference). So, again maybe i'm wrong, but it seems to me that it represents a big work to set up everything, and that frigthen me a little bit.

On the other hand, i thought to another alternative: i may purchase a motherboard with PCIe slot, do an upgrade on the top of my existing harddisk to keep all but the devices installed, and purchase a new arcadevga from ultimarc... Any opinion on this?

[rCadeGaming]

I may be wrong, but i understood that using the soft-15kHz solution imply  that a manual configuration had to be made for every game of the future mame station. Is it right? i'll have about 160 games in there, most of them in mame but also some other emulators (psx, model2, zinc, gens) and pc games... among that, some will be 3D games (doesn't know if it makes a difference). So, again maybe i'm wrong, but it seems to me that it represents a big work to set up everything, and that frigthen me a little bit.

It is a good amount of work, but you don't quite have to set up each game in MAME individually.  Do some more reading in that thread:

Note that most games run on hardware that's shared with a lot of other games.  For example, Street Fighter II runs on CPS-2 hardware, so once you've tweaked up Street Fighter II just right, you can tell MAME to use those setting for all CPS-2 games, as well as CPS-3 since it uses the same resolution.  I think CPS-1 as well, but I forget.

Same thing with NEO GEO, once you've set up one NEO GEO game, you're done tweaking for all of them, etc.  There's not too many games you'll be concerned with that ran on totally unique hardware.

I think you'll be running most of your PC games (non-emulator) at the highest resolution you can on your TV/monitor.  What kind of monitor are you using by the way?

You'll have to get advice from other members here on other emulators.  I'm using real hardware for consoles.

On the other hand, i thought to another alternative: i may purchase a motherboard with PCIe slot, do an upgrade on the top of my existing harddisk to keep all but the devices installed, and purchase a new arcadevga from ultimarc... Any opinion on this?

I already laid out the pros/cons of the ArcadeVGA above, doesn't matter if it's AGP/PCI-e etc.  I wouldn't spend the money on one, but that's just me.

I would recommend upgrading the PC though.  Fast PC's are cheaper than ever, you could build a very nice complete system (except monitor) for $200-$300.  MAME is more demanding when running native res in DirectDraw, especially with certain newer games.  I'm sure you could also use the speed for your other emulators, and especially your PC games.

btw, there are plenty of PCI-e cards compatible with Soft15kHz (I'm using one), and you could get one that's much more powerful than an ArcadeVGA.

[Qwintin]

ok thanks again for the explanations. I still didn't make my choice but i'll keep your advises in mind when i'll do 

My screen is a nanao 27''. It's a 24kHz that can be manually set to display 15kHz.... can't wait to see my guilty gears/hotd displayed in it

[rCadeGaming]

Are you sure it's not able to do 31kHz?

Guilty Gear X and XX are natively 640x480, so you need to run it at 480p in 31kHz or 480i in 15kHz.  Nice choice, btw.  I hope you have a proper control panel to play that.  "Virtua Striker cab," is that a Naomi, or some kind of candy cab?

What's "hotd"?

If you have to manually switch between 15/24kHz, I'd leave it in 15.  Most MAME games run at 15kHz native resolutions, there is a small percentage using 24kHz, but no too many.

[Qwintin]

Are you sure it's not able to do 31kHz?

well, yeah... but it certainly worth a third check.

Guilty Gear X and XX are natively 640x480, so you need to run it at 480p in 31kHz or 480i in 15kHz.  Nice choice, btw.  I hope you have a proper control panel to play that. 

not yet, it's still in my TODO-list. New buttons are ordered and the drill is ready to dig holes! The art (control panel included) will be done at last... For now i've plenty of plans, and very few spare time for my cab 

"Virtua Striker cab," is that a Naomi, or some kind of candy cab?

What do you mean by "candy cab"? It's a sega cabinet...  it's not jamma (i had to convert it, i'm not yet sure of my soldering)
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=11367

What's "hotd"?

the House Of The Dead... best zombie-killing light-gun game as per my opinion.

If you have to manually switch between 15/24kHz, I'd leave it in 15.  Most MAME games run at 15kHz native resolutions, there is a small percentage using 24kHz, but no too many.

Yep it was in my intention

[rCadeGaming]

New buttons are ordered and the drill is ready to dig holes! The art (control panel included) will be done at last... For now i've plenty of plans, and very few spare time for my cab 

What buttons?  You may be interested in Japanese parts and a proper layout if you're serious about Japanese fighting games:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118842.0.html

What do you mean by "candy cab"?

A candy cab means a Japanese cabinet.  They're plastic over a metal frame, usually (but not always) a sit-down cab with an easily rotatable monitor.  They're very nice (IMHO).  They're universal cabs meant to run any kind of Jamma board, so they're identified by the model of the cab, not by game.  Here's my favorite, a Sega Astro City:



http://www.zax.com.au/astrocity.html

Sega Naomi hardware is what runs some of the newer Virtua Striker games (at least VS4 I think), and it's often seen in Candy Cabs.

the House Of The Dead... best zombie-killing light-gun game as per my opinion.

Gotcha, just didn't recognize the acronym.  That probably also runs in 640x480.  If you're really into light guns you should look into using the real arcade Namco guns with recoil (if you haven't already).

[MTPPC]

radeon 9200se agp is the solution I use. Then to automate configurations, you can look at mame resolution tool and avres here: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Other_Software

[Qwintin]

hell... i was still wandering which option to go with while i decided to try soft-15kHz with my unknown Winfast graphic card. Good damn! it's working like a charm (Winfast cards seem to use nvidia drivers, lucky me!)

i've set my windows in 640x480, currently and all mame/pc games i tried were working (almost) flawlessly.

I must do some more reading to see how i can optimize the rendering of my frontend and pc games, though... but thanks a lot for your inputs*!

*: btw, i plan to use the button layout you suggested