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Raising Awareness of Japanese Parts and Button Layouts

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amendonz:
I like the feel of jlf but the dead zone is quite large making it feel less precise. great for lenient inputs fighters but I like faster switch actuation the ls32 has.  try loading up sf2hf then ssf2t,

LeedsFan:
While it's true to say that the original arcade "feel" of a dedicated cab from the early 80s cannot be compared (to a generic cab), the Japanese controls are far, far better in my opinion. It's all down to personal taste in the end, but I feel that the US controls are designed for primates to hang off the end of the control panel with. I love the accurate feel of the Japanese controls, and aside from reasons of originality in a dedicated cab or replica I would always choose to go for Japanese controls.

Yenome:

--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on March 15, 2012, 01:19:09 am ---It's the Sega Astro City Player 1 Layout I posted, minus the top right button and with the stick in the further left position.  Yenome, I'm not big into Morbutton to make MK a little more correct.tal Kombat so I just put run on the pinky button, and block on both the center buttons like you said.  If you really wanted to you could use my layout plus a thumb

Is this what you guys were talking about or were you referring to the square layout?

--- End quote ---

I was talking bout the square layout, just with the 7th button on the right side instead of the left. I think Paigeoliver was speaking of the same.
I used the same layout as dawgs in my mockup and i used a square layout on my cheap fight stick. Tho now i think im gonna try the astro city layout and leave the 4th button on the right as you said. are those sticks you made based from the slagcoin website. or a custom design. i cant decide on the size of my fight stick those yours looks to be a nice size.

rCadeGaming:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on March 14, 2012, 12:05:36 am ---The generic plastic cabinets of Japan are just that... Generic Crap.

 They are made to be light, easy to move, easy to swap kits in and out of.

--- End quote ---

Those are all advantages.


--- Quote from: opt2not on March 14, 2012, 07:31:13 pm ---If anything, the thing that can be taken away from Japenese cabinet design is their use of space and accessibility to internals. The pull-out boards (akin to Dynamo drawers) is brilliant. The piano-hinged CP's, the lift-up monitor bezels and rotation mechanisms in Candy's are just plain smart. All in all, I think Candy cabinets are made very intelligent in terms of serviceability. That's what I'd like to see more of in projects here.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Yenome on March 14, 2012, 02:28:31 am ---true the japanese arcade machine may not have what we think is a true arcade machine. but most the game people played in the arcade was a clone of a japanese game.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Jack Burton on March 14, 2012, 12:13:01 pm ---Those generic plastic cabinets are one of the reasons the arcade industry in Japan is thriving to this day.  Some of them are made of metal btw.  

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on March 14, 2012, 12:05:36 am ---The monitors are too large, and too close..  and the control panels are too small for good comfort.

--- End quote ---

I think a larger tri-sync monitor is a big advantage, but I can understand how you feel it's mounted too close to your face.

While I love the button layouts on Japanese cabinets, I do agree the player 1 and 2 controls are sometimes squished to close together.  Most cabinets suffer from this though, they have to be fairly thin so that they don't take up too much floor space.  At least Japanese cabinets correct for this by adjust the angle of the player 2 controls a little.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on March 14, 2012, 12:05:36 am ---The raised buttons (convex) are horrible feeling.
The joysticks are nothing special.

--- End quote ---

What a logical, detailed argument, let's remember what you said about convex buttons.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on March 14, 2012, 12:05:36 am ---But the worst... is the curved button layouts.

Its completely Wrong to say that just because your hand shape is curved, that button arrangement should also be curved.   Your hand is only curved when its lying down FLAT!  When you are pressing buttons, your fingers are raised and bent... and so they form a STRAIGHT LINE!
Which is exactly why almost ALL keyboards have perfectly straight lines of keys.

--- End quote ---

Your fingers don't make any less of a curve when you curl them up than they do laying flat.  They only do if you curl some fingers up a lot more than others; this isn't comfortable or natural, it's forced by the button layout.  The layout should conform to your hand, not the other way around.  

Also, straight line keyboards are not known to be comfortable, natural, or healthy.  Ever hear of an ergonomic keyboard?  Ever hear of carpal tunnel syndrome?


--- Quote from: Le Chuck on March 14, 2012, 08:23:22 am ---I use a curved layout (the one pictured as a 6 actually) and love it, but I don't and never have hit the buttons like I type so I really don't think they keyboard analogy will hold water for everybody.  Besides, straight line keyboards are ergonomic nightmares meant to fit as many keys as possible into a useable space...

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Ond on March 14, 2012, 10:27:42 pm ---I love my Japanese controls - modded JLW sticks and Seimitsu buttons in a slightly curved arrangement.
...
Everyones hands are a little different, for example I'm damned if I can make my fingers sit in a straight line either when bent or straight, I can almost manage it but I get the shakes   :laugh2: .  

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on March 14, 2012, 12:05:36 am ---with a curved layout, you tend to hit the button edges more so than the actual center of the button.  This creates a bad feeling, and doesnt always fully depress the switch.

--- End quote ---

You're getting these problem because you're using poor concave buttons that don't move smoothly or actuate responsively.  This is why there are convex buttons, you shouldn't have to hold your hand a certain way to get the buttons to work properly.  Again, the control panel should conform to your hand, not the other way around.


--- Quote from: brad808 on March 14, 2012, 07:11:00 am ---When I built my control panel I specifically chose the classic capcom sf layout. I haven't actually tried a curved layout so I'm can't say its better or worse but I agree with Xiaou2 on the button layout. My hand doesn't lay flat while I play games I keep my hand raised off the buttons (Daigo Umehara style) so flat or curved buttons couldn't make much of a difference. I simply chose the layout that looked the best for my cabinet.

--- End quote ---

Daigo uses the curved layout.  Your fingers don't make a straight line whether they rested on the buttons or held in the air.

Daigo's hands:



brad808:
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