New Front End For All Command Line Emulators - CBG

[DinoRoger]

Over the holiday weekend I decided to final attempt to create my first emulator front end. Well after only 3 days of coding it came out better than I would have ever thought. I wanted to show an example of the current build in hopes of getting some feedback (suggestions, comments) before I posted a downloadable demo. All features in the current build work, but with your feedback I am sure there are many more add-ons that can be done to make it a better front end.

PROGRAM TITLE:
CBG

[Alcohol]

looks as if you know what your doing.. would be very interested in trying a new front end.. especailly if it has jukebox facility built in..

good luck on the project m8 and look forward to seing a release

Alc..

[Birdtales]

Can you use a background image? I like that feature on the current Front Ends.

Nevermind I see it in Menu 4 above. (I would still like to see a couple of shots of the thing running with all of the art shown)


Your's looks like it may be as easy to set up as Mame32 without looking likw a Windows App, outside of the configuration screens. I'd like to see more in actions screens than config screens as that is where a FE shines IMHO.

[DinoRoger]

Will do this afternoon. Just finished writing the automated MAME list builder so can test it when I get home with images enabled. Will take a few screen shots of full and winow screen shots at differnt brightnesses.

Also justed finished a ROM verify option under the automated MAME menu builder. With this option enabled it will only list games that are in your ROMS directory. When the list is build it will dispplay a count of games added to the list and generate a log file of ROMS not found.

[DinoRoger]

Here are some the images with game screen shots as requested.
The first image is at 25% brightness large.
The second image is at 25% brightnees small.
The 3rd image is at 60% brightness small.

The position of the screen shots can be changed with a selection of 5 different positions. 4 small selections and one large. The brighness can be customized from 1% to 100%. All text colors and background colors can be customized.

I hope to release a BETA this coming weekend (9/6). If anyone want to host it please respond.







Looking at it now the small images may be too small. Opinions?

[SirPoonga]

I'll give my opinion once I can run it

[DinoRoger]

I am currently looking for BETA testers. If you are interested you can send me a private message with your e-mail address. I will send you a link to download the BETA. I am working solo right now tring to work out the kinks before I release a public BETA.

Click the URL to send me a private message:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=imsend;to=DinoRoger

Feature Just Added:
* Font and font size customization.
* MAME command line global include for automated mame list creation process.

[Zzap]

Looks fantastic Dinoroger should provide a nice easy to use interface for quite a few people!

Zzap

[Katana Man]

VERY NICE!  I think the only major items would be:
1. Mouse control to select games  (like game launcher, X vs. Y axis choice as well)
2. Sub menues.  (like lemon launcher)

[tmasman]

The one thing that I think is missing in the FEs I've tried is a better method to advance through a large list...

I know MAMEWAH allows page up & down with left & right...
but That's just not enough if you're scrolling through a complete list!

Perhaps the ability to set a certain button to jump to the next/previous letter? This would make it a million times faster to get to Pacman, then back to 1942.

The only other thing I'd be interested in is the ability to have a static background & the ability to move things around (pretty much the way MAMEWAH does it). You wouldn't even need a complicated layout builder, maybe just a few coordinate inputs for the different things...

Just my 2

[DinoRoger]

Very good ideas:

It shoulnt be a problem adding mouse control. I already plan on adding the enable/disable mouse cursor option.

A firend also suggested a different page down option. I will brain storm the A-Z funtion or a percentage scroll option.

Static backgrouns will be very easy to create. I was also thinking of allowing transparent gif border styles.

Moving objects probably will not be part of my GUI. The layout itselft other than fonts, color, and images will remain the same. For my FE I am looking for a clean interface like GLauncher.

Will investigate sub menus.

I also am looking into adding keys to display the an image of the controls used for each game. The controls graphics will all be custom images of your choice.

Another key feature I am trying to build is a game info/history viewer when a key is pressed.

[Howard_Casto]

Well with that last statement I have to ask.  Backend wise, is your fe at least as good as gamelauncher?  Because if it's not then this fe won't be particularly useful.  I'm guessing it's windows only, so that's already one strike against it.  

You say it'll work with any command line emulator.  How?  Will it support dat files?  If not then the support really isn't that good.  


I'm not trying to discourage you here, I'm just bringing up the point that graphically, this fe will be extremely limited.  You'll have to make it very useful to make up for that, and gamelauncher has a pretty big set of shoes to fill.  I know MANY people will disagree on this, but imo putting configuraiton options in the gui doesn't make it easier to configure.  It's just a different way of doing it. Personally I'm too impatient for that and would rather type in settings manually in a good ole text file.

p.s.

About the transpartent gif border.  Yeah a border as big as the screen in gif fromat, that won't slow down performance at all.  

[DinoRoger]

Well with that last statement I have to ask.  Backend wise, is your fe at least as good as gamelauncher?  Because if it's not then this fe won't be particularly useful.  I'm guessing it's windows only, so that's already one strike against it.  

I have used GLauncher for a couple of years now so I understand what is expected. I respect that FE very much and am not trying to relace it for the public. My version is for Windows only and may not meet the need of user who choose to run DOS.

You say it'll work with any command line emulator.  How?  Will it support dat files?  If not then the support really isn't that good.  

You specify the entire command line. The automated mame menu builder will allow you to specify global command lines if wanted. You specify the path of the emulator + rom and any command line entries just like you would type them in if you were launching the game from a command line emulator manualy. I am currently working on a History.DAT viewer per rom. All other mame setting can be setup in the mame.ini file.

I know MANY people will disagree on this, but imo putting configuraiton options in the gui doesn't make it easier to configure.  It's just a different way of doing it. Personally I'm too impatient for that and would rather type in settings manually in a good ole text file.

The configuration GUI is designed for the novice user in mind. The config.ini file will be editable if you choose not to use the GUI.  One reaon I like the GUI configuration is for keyboard shortcust customization. You do not need to know ASCII values or Ordinals values with the GUI setup.  Also it prevents most typos on the settings.

About the transpartent gif border.  Yeah a border as big as the screen in gif fromat, that won't slow down performance at all.  

When coded the gif border will be an overlay and only needs to load in memory once so no refresh problems. Of cource if your running a 486 system I cant speak for that.

Thanks for the feedback. This app this still early BETA but with your feedback it can easily improve.

[Minwah]

I know MAMEWAH allows page up & down with left & right...
but That's just not enough if you're scrolling through a complete list!

Try using the P2 stick

DinRoger:  Looks nice so far, not sure how useful the small images in the corners would be tho - I think most would just use the full-screen image.  Maybe if you could use different artwork in each corner?

[tmasman]

I know MAMEWAH allows page up & down with left & right...
but That's just not enough if you're scrolling through a complete list!

Try using the P2 stick

Hm...
That might help if I had a 2 player panel...  
(Right now I've just got a "laptop" CP for 1 player, but I'm working on my MAME cab this week, & should be able to play with it some more then.)
Thanks for the info!
(What exactly does it do?)

[DinoRoger]

Right now the menu has the following options:

• Single Entry Down
• Single Entry Down
• Page Down
• Page Up

Working on the following ideas:

• Jump to next letter key
• Jump to previous letter key
• Jump to 10-25% list jump up or down
• Speak the name of the game you want to play. Just Kidding  

[RacerX]

Right now the menu has the following options:

• Single Entry Down
• Single Entry Down
• Page Down
• Page Up

Working on the following ideas:

• Jump to next letter key
• Jump to previous letter key
• Jump to 10-25% list jump up or down
• Speak the name of the game you want to play. Just Kidding  

I wrote a quick and dirty (we're talking like 1 hour of time spent coding) front-end for Mess once that did just that when I was playing around with Microsoft's speech SDK.  It's do-able.

Also, you don't even have to write it into your front-end if you have something like Dragon Naturally speaking running in the background.  I sometimes do that for fun.

[sac01]

I like the jukebox option they have on AdvMenu, that randomly plays a game ...Only problem is, i don't know of any other Emu's other than AdvMame that have a 'exit on idle' after a period of time you select...

But i'd like an option like that.. It's pretty cool to just walk by your Cabinet and see some random game playing, not just a screenshot like most frontend screensavers do.

that's my 2cents

[Howard_Casto]

That's not what I meant about dats Dino.  I mean in regards to creating gamelists (ie clrmamepro dats).  Gamelist creation is probably one of the most frustrating processes for users, even in the old gamelauncher.  For mame it's always easy, but what about other emulators?

[Katana Man]

DinoRoger,
   Don't mind Howard_Casto's pessimism. You just keep on pressing toward your goal. We are behind you!

[SirPoonga]

DinoRoger,
   Don't mind Howard_Casto's pessimism. You just keep on pressing toward your goal. We are behind you!

Pessimism?  HowardC brings up a very good point.

[DinoRoger]

That's not what I meant about dats Dino.  I mean in regards to creating gamelists (ie clrmamepro dats).  Gamelist creation is probably one of the most frustrating processes for users, even in the old gamelauncher.  For mame it's always easy, but what about other emulators?

I hope to build pre built list for other emulators once I build them myself for my arcade. If other emulators are written with a game list method like MAME I can include an automated tool for that emualtor also.  Sounds like a plugin idea too me.  Good idea!

[Minwah]

I like the jukebox option they have on AdvMenu, that randomly plays a game ...Only problem is, i don't know of any other Emu's other than AdvMame that have a 'exit on idle' after a period of time you select...

But i'd like an option like that.. It's pretty cool to just walk by your Cabinet and see some random game playing, not just a screenshot like most frontend screensavers do.

that's my 2cents

You can use Howards EmuSaver wrapper with most FE's to do just that, for any emulator

( tmasman: My FE uses the P2 stick by default to move 100 (up/down) / 500 (left/right) games at a time.  This can be remapped to any keys though... )

[Howard_Casto]

Dino, trust me you need to have gamelist creation your top priority.  In my first front end it wasn't and it was a nightmare.  You can make the list generator external if you want, but that really needs to be finished before you make this guy public.  You can even use my list generator if you want, you'll just have to adhere to my format.  

[DinoRoger]

Please list the top emulators that are used.  I will start with that list as I build my addons.

#1 MAME
...
...
...

[Howard_Casto]

Big mistake.  There are only about 300 different emulators out there.  You have to make it generic and modular.  In other words, use clrmamepro dat files or a similar, already established format.  

[DinoRoger]

Big mistake.  There are only about 300 different emulators out there.  You have to make it generic and modular.  In other words, use clrmamepro dat files or a similar, already established format.  

Good idea for some of the emulators.  Looks like for some of the common emulators I use there are not DAT files currently. Will try and build with the same format so I can send them my dat files so other FE can use em.

One question about the DAT format, are the file names listed correctly?

For example of the C64 DAT file and others I have looked at the file names are very lengthy compared to MAME.

4X4 Off-Road Racing (Epyx)(1988)(ikari&inc)(Disk2).d64

Is that really the file name of the rom?

The current method I am using to build the MAME list probably will not change but if an emulator has a dat file I agree it makes life as a programmer much eaiser. The current method I use for building the mame list automaticly is pulling the information from your MAME.exe. This way it will create the rom list based on your version of MAME.EXE. So even future releases of MAME will be compatible with the automated MAME list creator.

[Jakobud]

First of all, I think this FE looks good so far.  I like that you can use either the GUI or INI file editing to config the thing.

I agree that Gamelist creation should be a priority.  When it comes down to it, there just aren't that many easy ways to make Gamelists.  Hopefully your Gamelists will be ascii text files so people can manipulate it to their hearts content.  I would put gamelist creation "automation" above a history.dat viewer on the priority list.

Anyways, really REALLY good job so far.  Keep it coming.

[DinoRoger]

Great feedback - This is why I came to the community durring development and not post production. Although I have a working FE as it is I think I am going to start from scratch and build it once again with your feedback in mind. I was going to have to do that anyway to support a different resoultions. So it about a week expect another BETA with tons more features.  Keep the feedback coming.

[)p(]

another vote for jump by letter...when i am not in one of my favorites list but scaning through all the games I use it all the time in my fe...gives more of a feeling of control in a big list of were you are in the list then for examle jumping by x-pages or x-games...

peter

[Howard_Casto]

Agreed.  I was reluctant to add this feature to the old lazarus, but I was glad once I did.  It really comes in handy.  

[Katana Man]

another vote for jump by letter...
peter

Or better yet, jump by a few letters.  In EMULoader for example, if I want to play HyperSports, I can type "hyp" and it takes me to it.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah but as its' for arcade cabs nobody wants that.  Sorry, your in the minority.

[)p(]

Yeah but as its' for arcade cabs nobody wants that.  Sorry, your in the minority.

I agree...but in mine you can type something like that to search for a game but... only in multiuser mode because then there is a chatbox to type stuff in anyway  

peter

[Katana Man]

Ummm why in the world would you not want that?  I have thousands of roms in my arcade machine. If I want to play Hachoo, I just hit "h" and it takes me to the beginning of the h's.  If I want to play HyperSports, I hit "hy" or "hyp" and it takes me to it.

More and more home arcade machines come with keyboard drawers, so just because you don't have one, doesn't mean it would be a great feature to have in the front end.

[tmasman]

Ummm why in the world would you not want that?  I have thousands of roms in my arcade machine. If I want to play Hachoo, I just hit "h" and it takes me to the beginning of the h's.  If I want to play HyperSports, I hit "hy" or "hyp" and it takes me to it.

More and more home arcade machines come with keyboard drawers, so just because you don't have one, doesn't mean it would be a great feature to have in the front end.

Maybe you could have an option to do that or not... But you mainly wouldn't do it because in a cab all your buttons are mapped to keys that are usually unknown to the end player.  If they just accidentally pressed the 4th or 5th button while scrolling through the list it would jump to z or x.  It would be much better to just have intructions on how to scroll through the list.

Sure if you have a KB it might be nice, but there are too many people that would just prefer the only interface be the CP with minimal buttons/inputs.

[Minwah]

Ummm why in the world would you not want that?  I have thousands of roms in my arcade machine. If I want to play Hachoo, I just hit "h" and it takes me to the beginning of the h's.  If I want to play HyperSports, I hit "hy" or "hyp" and it takes me to it.

More and more home arcade machines come with keyboard drawers, so just because you don't have one, doesn't mean it would be a great feature to have in the front end.

What HC is saying is that most people don't have a keyboard (at least usable while the cab is up & running).  The majority of people here don't want to have a keyboard out whilst playing on their cab, otherwise why not just run a desktop PC?...

Anyway, I agree that it is a useful feature for those who do have a keyboard, but it means you'd have to select a search box or something ( )p('s is a little different), otherwise how does the FE know to jump to eg 'hy' rather than 'h' and then straight to 'y'?  This would probably impair the simple joystick selection method used by most cabinet FE's.  EmuLoader is not really intended for cabs.

Edit: I do like the skip to next / previous letter feature though, I may try to incorporate this into my FE at some point.

[mw]

How about entering the search like you do on the highscore screens.

Search: HY-_

A B C D E F G H I J K L M
N O P Q R S T U V W X Y
Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
Clr End

Simple 4-way input with a select button, optional keyboard or mouse entry.  Could be done from a overlay screen.

[Hoagie_one]

regardless of what some may think, i like the simple gui instead of an ini.  Not that i cant do both, its just that when more people can get it up and runnin, it means more people are using it,more support, more numbers, bigger market.  etc etc

only good can happen.  and in the future they will sing the praises of your FE.  

Hip Hip Horrah

[)p(]

How about entering the search like you do on the highscore screens.

Search: HY-_

A B C D E F G H I J K L M
N O P Q R S T U V W X Y
Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
Clr End

Simple 4-way input with a select button, optional keyboard or mouse entry.  Could be done from a overlay screen.

both sirpoonga's , hc and mine allready have a highscore like search function..joystick up and down scroll through a-z..and left and right the position of the letter that forms the search string...

but we are getting a bit of topic here i think  

peter

[DinoRoger]

Interesting ideas on the navigation.

I think I will include them all and make it a choice in the configuration options to how you prefer to navigate.

-------------------
BTW

Just started FE from scratch to include all the ideas with the original design. Features currently working include:

* 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 resolutions supported.
* The entire layout can be adjust by pixel left, right, up down. This way you can center the FE on your screen exactly.
* Choice list font & size can be changed to fonts installed on your computer.
* Menu title font & size can be changed to fonts installed on your computer.
* Number of choices in a list can be modified from 1-30
* Spaces between choices can be modified.
* The will be 6 screen shot view options. Small Top-Left, Small Bottom-Left, Small Top-Right, Small Bottom-Right, Small Center, Full Screen.
* Border graphic supported and long as center is transparent (Optional).

That was a day of coding there. Will keep you updated.

[Katana Man]

You did all of that in a day?    I'm thinking this new FE is going to rule  I'm very excited about it, as I have invested in a nice arcade machine and still have to find a FE with the features you are about to add  Keep up the good work!

[DinoRoger]

Yep I find I can code quick when I dont do anything at work.  

If you have any more ideas let me hear them before its too late.

[PaulT]

first time post long time lurker
I think this could be a cool FE, with my limited computer skills.
I've PM'd you for download and beta testing

Cheers
Ted

[Katana Man]

When it comes to mouse control to select games, a screenshot millisecond delay option would be great. In GameLauncher, I was able to set which mouse axis to use and also the screenshot delay time.  I set my screenshot delay to something like 20ms.  This allowed me to spin the spinner and move up and down the list VERY quickly.