opinnions on a clearcoat on a CP please.

[pharoah007]

I am in the process of getting all my ducks in a row to build my 2nd MAME and have a question  about clear-coating the CP vice Lexan or other plastic.

I have done a bit of searching and have not come across a good answer as to if this is a good option? I have seen some products that claim to be "50 coats in 1" coat.

Please chime in with your opinions and experiences.

Thank you.

P.S. I chose the woodworking forum for this post, did I make the right choice?

[BobA]

Depends on your control panel.   Do you have a wood or mdf control panel and does it have graphics that you want to cover? 

[pharoah007]

Depends on your control panel.   Do you have a wood or mdf control panel and does it have graphics that you want to cover? 

Here is a pic of my CP, it is from a 33" showcase arcade cab.



I do plan on adding art but I am not sure how yet.  There is also a trackball and 2 more joysticks going in.  I may bondo in the existing joy and button holes to change the config to a more ergonomic button layout.

[drventure]

I can tell you from experience, don't try to spray it at all.

You might try a pourable epoxy finish (think the kind of stuff you see on wooden bars, the kind that serve drinks....)
Basically, you mix the epoxy, then pour it on (it's messy, so use lots of plastic dropcloths).

once it's hardened you clean up the edges with a sander or whatever.

I tried spray clearcoat. it flaked off after a few weeks, was a horrible mess.

I went a bit different tack because I didn't want a super think, high gloss surface.

I ended up pouring on Future Floor polish. Yep, the stuff you get for 2.50 a bottle at walmart.

It's essentially a water based polyurethane, that's easy to work with and clean up, but it hard as nails (it's meant for flooring after all).

the only downside is that it melts if exposed to alcohol, or ammonia, which is typically used to take up the old coat when you're about lay down a fresh coat on your floor.

I've had mine on my CP for about 8-9 months now. it's held up perfectly. My cp is black formica, that has hand applied stamped artwork, that is, granted, a little off beat.

For a more traditional CP, the poured epoxy would probably look pretty good. But sheet of acrylic might be easier to deal with (and it's removable).

[jennifer]

       Mylar [playfield clear] might be a option, It"s thin, protective, and removeable. Clearcoats don"t offer much scratch resistance.

[pharoah007]

       Mylar [playfield clear] might be a option, It"s thin, protective, and removeable. Clearcoats don"t offer much scratch resistance.

Hummm, that is a good idea as well, I have lots of exp with mylar, mostly removing it from my pinballs





Drventure...  thanks for the advice. Do you happen to know a brand name for the pourable epoxy?  Can you pick up this stuff @ home depot/Lowes...ect ect..  ?


Z.

[HanoiBoi]

Do you happen to know a brand name for the pourable epoxy?  Can you pick up this stuff @ home depot/Lowes...ect ect..  ?

Envirotex.  Your hardware stores should care it (I've seen it at Ace Hardware), but your best bet is to find it at a craft store like Michael's, AC Moore, etc.  It's expensive, so you'll most likely want to locate a coupon before purchasing.  The craft stores are more apt to have coupons available.

Also, if you're going to use this, do a lot of reading up on it!  It is very critical that you be aware of temperature, humidity and dust when working with it.

[pharoah007]

Do you happen to know a brand name for the pourable epoxy?  Can you pick up this stuff @ home depot/Lowes...ect ect..  ?

Envirotex.  Your hardware stores should care it (I've seen it at Ace Hardware), but your best bet is to find it at a craft store like Michael's, AC Moore, etc.  It's expensive, so you'll most likely want to locate a coupon before purchasing.  The craft stores are more apt to have coupons available.

Also, if you're going to use this, do a lot of reading up on it!  It is very critical that you be aware of temperature, humidity and dust when working with it.

I just found some on line at Rona

http://www.rona.ca/shop/~finish-bar-table-top-finish-varathane-380369_!epoxy_shop

I am wondering if it would be best to cut all the holes in the CP ant then use the epoxy....or to epoxy first then cut the holes??   the holes could lead to wasted product and depending how thick it cotes the I.D. of the holes I may have to sand the holes back out.

how does this product stand up to cutting if I decide to drill after I apply it?

[jennifer]

      I would think if the holes were cut first the epoxy not only would run down into them, but as it started to dry the flatness around the holes
would be compromised. Not a bad thing I guess, the button bezels would cover that when assembled.

[pharoah007]

      I would think if the holes were cut first the epoxy not only would run down into them, but as it started to dry the flatness around the holes
would be compromised. Not a bad thing I guess, the button bezels would cover that when assembled.

what I was thinking as well.


I hope someone here has experience using this stuff. I f it will take to a hole saw well, then I will cut the holes after it drys....the question is...how well does it cut?   Hummm.

[BobA]

I think that filling the holes with plastic foam inserts and so the covering will flow to the edges of the hole and then when the covering is dried the plastic foam can be ripped off and the holes touched up with a drill to remove any plastic foam that is sticking to the clear covering.   One of the control panel projects from the last 2 or 3 months covered a CP with clear plastic.  I cannot remember the thread but it was a really pro panel made by someone in the movie or show prop business.

[drventure]

Also, if you're going to use this, do a lot of reading up on it!  It is very critical that you be aware of temperature, humidity and dust when working with it.

A big +1 on this. You'll want to do the pour somewhere with NO DRAFTS, and NO DUST, then hang a dropcloth over it after the pour and try like heck to keep any bugs out (I got a gnat stuck in my desk pour).


Also when you pour, be sure to have a mini torch (like a cooking torch or something) that you can wave over the top to pop any bubbles that form (you'll get some so be prepared). However, it's really easy to wave a torch over the poured surface and the bubble will disappear easily.

If you're doing a CP, you can probably get by with 2 sets that you can buy from Michaels or Home depot. I completely covered a 4x5 foot desk. I had to buy two gallons of the stuff. That wasn't cheap 

And yes, if you drill the holes first, it'll run all over and make a huge mess. I'd either wait, or drill them, then line the hole with a lip of tape or something to prevent the epoxy from dripping in.

Whatever the stuff gets on you won't get it off, so use LOTS of drop cloths, etc.

But it does look GREAT!

[pharoah007]

"""And yes, if you drill the holes first, it'll run all over and make a huge mess. I'd either wait, or drill them, then line the hole with a lip of tape or something to prevent the epoxy from dripping in."""


I think you are right about the mess pre drilled holes will make.  I think I will drill then cut with a forstner bit, going real slow with a 2nd piece of wood under the cp to help with chipping when the bit exits.

Using this method, should I drill with the Clear coat up down through the CP and into the 2nd piece of wood under the cp....or with the Clear Coat down drill through the bottom of the CP--->through the Clear coat and into the 2nd piece of wood??

[HanoiBoi]

I've never drilled through the Envirotex.  I imagine it could be done without issue, but regardless I'd drill the holes first.  Like drventure said, you could tape off the holes pretty easily.  You would use the Automotive painter's tape (I believe that's the Green tape, not the blue painter's tape) and you'd tape around the hole so that the tape creates a wall around the hole.  Picture sticking a TP or paper towel tube standing up in the hole.  You would also want to do this around the edges of the entire CP.  Sure, you'll get run off and drips, but you'll want to contain as much as possible.  Don't wait too long to remove the tape afterwards.

When you pour the stuff, it's pretty thick, almost honey like.  So, you'll need to spread it with foam brushes.  By doing so, you can kinda control how much makes it to the edge, to the holes etc.

The covering is important, but do not let it touch the product after the pour.  If you're going to do this, be sure to set something up (tent-like) and do a dry run of covering it (without dropping the cover on the CP).

I'd suggest that you call Envirtotex support with any questions.  They are very helpful and might have strong feeling about cutting aftet hardening.  The person you would speak to uses the stuff all the time for testing and they should be able to answer all of your questions.

Also, I don't remember the exact timeframe, but they say it takes quite some time to 'fully harden'.  Something like weeks if I'm not mistaken.  What I mean by fully harden is that you don't want to place heavy objects on a surface treated with Envirotex or it will leave footprints.  Even though you wouldn't be placing anything heavy, mounting controls would fall into that category.  If you are going to go with the pour on, speak to support and they can give you more detail.

On a personal note, for the cost and high maintenance when applying, I might suggest just doing multiple coats of poly. 

[pharoah007]

Thanks for the input.

Sorry, newb question....poly?  like clear plastic cover (Lexan type)?

I will give Envirotex a call as you suggest.  I think I will also pour on a rest piece of wood, let harden then cut holes as a test.

thank you everyone for all the help, I appreciate it, keep it coming if you have anything to add!

[Creeper]

The epoxy coating is a great finish but beware. Once its poured, it will start to 'pool' around any walls which can leave you with nasty edges. If you look in these pictures you can see I used pink foam to plug off all the button holes. Once it cured (3-4 days) I ripped the foam out and there was a razor sharp uneven edge of epoxy sticking up about 3/16", disastrous if you plan on putting buttons in right away.

I used a very large 45 degree bit on a cnc table to bevel the edge down and it worked beautifully. The hole on the right is before I bored it out, on the left is after wards.





Before pouring, make sure your CP is perfectly level and as other people have mentioned, watch out for dust. The heat gun works well for bubbles.

This is a two man job as the resin will thicken quite a bit after 10 minutes, so make sure you do it with a competent friend.

[drventure]

This is a two man job as the resin will thicken quite a bit after 10 minutes, so make sure you do it with a competent friend.

+1 I forgot to mention that and making sure you're VERY level. I had my dad helping me. You have to work pretty fast, that epoxy starts to set quickly.

[HanoiBoi]

Thanks for the input.

Sorry, newb question....poly?  like clear plastic cover (Lexan type)?

Sorry...Poly as in Polyurethane.  I was a newb to the stuff too until about 2 years ago.

Here's an example;
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgy/R-100136801/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It's also a liquid, but much more liquidy.  It's much easier to work with than the epoxy.  To work with, you'd simply paint it on to your surface.  You'd want more than one coat though, so then you'd wait 4-6 hours (before reapplying) lightly sand, remove debris and reapply.  You can do this a couple times, several times or many times until you've got it where it's as pretty and thick as you'd like.    Sure, it sounds time consuming, but it's worth it.  And again, it's much easier to work with than the epoxy with less chance of mistakes occurring.

I did my bar top with the epoxy, but I did the handrail with Polyurethane.  The bar top ended up with a bit of a haze throughout.  I was told later that it may have been too humid or not the right temp.   This, after I had dehumidifiers and portable heaters running for days prior to control room temp.  Also had my drop cover ready, 2 propane torches and a buddy to help spread. 

Oh, and you don't need (or want) to wait 3-4 days to remove tape or foam.  You'll want to do that pretty soon after the pour.  You'll get a good feel on the hardening and you'll want to get the tape off before it cures into the epoxy.

[pharoah007]

Creeper, thanks for the post..that CP looks AWESOME!

I known you said you used a CNC mill to cut out the holes, but I have a question about the cutting.  In your opinion, how did the product (epoxy) take to cutting?  what are your thoughts as to how a hole saw/forstner bit/spade bit would handle the job of cutting a hole thru the epoxy and cp wood?

Thank you.


Hanoiboy, poly is another valid option. I am looking at at a wood table with a poly coating here at my dads and it looks real nice.  I guess if I put enough polly on I can work the thickness up real thick.

Thank you as well.

[Creeper]

Pharoah, the epoxy cuts quite nice actually. I cut my holes before pouring so its hard to say exactly what will happen if you cut them after wards but I don't foresee too many problems, in fact you would probably get better results doing so. Once the epoxy is cured it has very similar properties to plexiglass.

If I were you I would make a small 10" x 10" sample and try it out. Let the resin cure until your fingernail barely leaves a mark (should be around 4 days but it might vary from brand to brand). Then clamp it down and see what kind of results you get with different bits. It's definitely a great way to go, its a very durable surface.   

[pharoah007]

If I were you I would make a small 10" x 10" sample and try it out. Let the resin cure until your fingernail barely leaves a mark (should be around 4 days but it might vary from brand to brand). Then clamp it down and see what kind of results you get with different bits. It's definitely a great way to go, its a very durable surface.  

0
I think this is exactly what I am going to try (pour a test piece on some scrap wood)

Prob going to be a month or so as I still have to get my art together for my CP

[jennifer]

       
          The compatability of the chemical and the artwork [blisters/ lifting edges] could be a problem, it is with clearcoat anyway, And the thickness
might raise the level beyond the Tmoulding......

[pharoah007]

       
          The compatability of the chemical and the artwork [blisters/ lifting edges] could be a problem, it is with clearcoat anyway, And the thickness
might raise the level beyond the T-molding......

aah, I did not take t-molding thickness into account.

With lexan/plexi I can account for the thickness in my plans....
with poy, I can keep adding until I have desired thickness...
with epoxy...no way to get a exact thickness...........good point jennifer.

[michelevit]

I recommend automotive clear coat. Transtar Qwikclear is what I use. It dries in an hour and you can buff in less than 4.
Perfect for garage painters like myself. I use a 50 dollar harbor freight HVLP touch up gun. Once its dry its diamond hard.
Automotive clearcoat is the secret finish woodworkers use to get a good solid clear finish.