TV as arcade monitor (actual arcade PCB, not mame)

[tmasman]

Is it possible?
I've got a couple of spare TVs sitting around and I picked up a couple of games without monitors at the Mesquite auction a couple of days ago.

One is a Devastator, the other is a Neo-Geo 2-slot board with Aero Fighter. I really want to test these out!!!

I also need to know if any of you have an idea of how much I could expect to pay for a 19" arcade monitor TUBE. I have the chassy, but the tube is broken. (The small tube at the back of the actual screen tube). I appreciate any help or ideas you guys might have.

TIA!

~ tmasman

[TheGatesofBill]

You'll need something like this.

It's ideal for connecting standard resolution JAMMA arcade games to a TV.

Sounds like it does exactly what you want.

[tmasman]

That looks like what I'm looking for!
Thanks!

(If it were only a little less costly...)
I could get a decent Arcade monitor for that price...
eh...

Thanks for the link though!!! That item does what I was looking for, it was just bad news for me...

[rampy]

You know what I've wondered and been meaning to post about.

If arcade monitors are essentially TV's without tuners (and with RGB inputs) why isn't there a way to bypass the tuner and tap in straight with RGB.

Of course what I'm talking about is hacking a TV into an arcade monitor (without the 8 liners chasis swap) -- and probably different than what the o.p. was looking for...  and any mucking around the back of a TV is dangerous business....

But I got to figure that a TV takes the composite signal at some point and converts it to RGB... if only there was a way to "tap in" after that point where the TV already expects RGB/sync etc... know what I'm getting at Vern?

Of course this is way out of my expertise/knowledge level and I do not condone anyone experimenting with it (standard disclaimers apply) -- I was hoping a "TV" or "monitor" guru might have a thought as to why it's plausible (or not)... to jump into a TV's signal chain later...

*shrug*  comments welcome.

Rampy

[tmasman]

That would work for me!

I just know I've got 3 19" TVs that I'm planning on putting in cabinets.  And I unexpectedly came home with 2 working arcade PCBs from the auction. So I figured I'd ask if it's possible (with an adapter, or tinkering with the inards of my TVs.)

Any insights would be of great interest.

Thanks!

[rampy]

Well let me tangent a bit...

I've got a 19" tv, but it's not svideo (coax composite only, blah)... and i'd still like to use it for a future project... that's what got me thinking.

there is the 8liners chasis for like 80 - 90 smackers that will turn your TV (most tv's) into a full fledged arcade monitor... let me dig up the two whoooo mama threads for your perusal...

wooo mama original:a new hope
wooo mama II: 8liners strikes back

*shrug*

rampy

PS my thought of course: is there a way of converting a tv withought buying a new chasis and just tapping into the signal flow somewhere further down the line than the tuner/etc... *shrug*

[tmasman]

Very interesting...
But once again, you're looking at a lot of $$$...

I was hoping for maybe a "solder these Rat Shak parts to this board" type solution that would run $10-20...

I think I'm seeing that a solution that cheap won't be feasible... eh... One can always hope... no?

[BobA]

Here is a link to a DIY converter using a high quality AD724 surface mount chip.   The chip can be obtained for free as an engineering sample from AD and you need very few parts.   It is not a project for those who cannot solder very well.

EDIT:
Converts RGB to NTSC just like a JROK converter.  The JROK converter looks like it uses this sort of chip if you look at the closeups of its construction.  Different pinout so I am not sure of the number but approx the same component count.

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/pscoelho/vgatv/ludovico/LC-AD724.html

There are engineering notes and other info available as well.

BobA

[tom61]

You know what I've wondered and been meaning to post about.

If arcade monitors are essentially TV's without tuners (and with RGB inputs) why isn't there a way to bypass the tuner and tap in straight with RGB.

Of course what I'm talking about is hacking a TV into an arcade monitor (without the 8 liners chasis swap) -- and probably different than what the o.p. was looking for...  and any mucking around the back of a TV is dangerous business....

But I got to figure that a TV takes the composite signal at some point and converts it to RGB... if only there was a way to "tap in" after that point where the TV already expects RGB/sync etc... know what I'm getting at Vern?

Of course this is way out of my expertise/knowledge level and I do not condone anyone experimenting with it (standard disclaimers apply) -- I was hoping a "TV" or "monitor" guru might have a thought as to why it's plausible (or not)... to jump into a TV's signal chain later...

*shrug*  comments welcome.

Rampy

Converting a TV to RGB is not an easy task. Each TV is different inside, sometimes even the same model of TV will have different circuitry inside depending on when an where it was made, making a guide nearly useless. To do this mod would require the schematics for the TV, an osiliscope, a very good grasp of analog electronics, and little fear of high voltage. Not many people are that willing.

[Brogner]

Rampy, I am not a monitor guru (not even close!) I tried it on an old tv of mine with arcade vga just to experiement.  I got the bios to come up on the tv screen but was 90% snow....I thought I was getting close to getting a picture when POOF!! ...shorted out the tv and arcade vga.  TV now displays a nice pink screen and arcade vga was toasted.  Lesson learned; next time get a cheaper video card to blow up

Brogner

[AndyWarne]

In Europe we have exactly that: almost every TV has RGB input on the SCART connector so they can be used as arcade monitors with a game board or ArcadeVGA.
Unfortunately converting a TV without RGB would not be easy, you would need full schematics for a start, and you would have to hack the PCB. It's likely that the RGB signals at the low voltage level might be buried within a chip and only emerge at a high voltage level to drive the CRT. Not an easy task.

[gnateye]

i couldnt get the link above to work so here it is again, this thing is the bomb, get it and solve all your problems

http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

also i have seen build your own supergun or jamma test rig sites before that tell you how to build one of these, but this thing is ipac like in its perfectness, the difference between hacking a keyboard and buying an ipac both work one is way easier

im building a supergun now and all i need is one of these converters, a power supply and a jamma harness. done.

[paigeoliver]

Hey dude. You said you have 3 old 19" tvs sets, and an arcade monitor with a broken tube right?

You may be able to swap the tube from one of the television sets into the arcade chassis. Television sets and arcade monitors use the same tubes.

Start cracking open those TVs and seeing if the number of pins where the neckboard attaches matches up. If you get a matching one, then search around for tube swap instructions. Heck, the instructions for the 8-liners TV to arcade chassis pretty much has all the information you need. Go to the part about measuring the resistance or whatever, measure it on your arcade monitor, and then on the possible donor tube, if you get a match then you can swap.

[rampy]

Hey dude. You said you have 3 old 19" tvs sets, and an arcade monitor with a broken tube right?

You may be able to swap the tube from one of the television sets into the arcade chassis. Television sets and arcade monitors use the same tubes.

Start cracking open those TVs and seeing if the number of pins where the neckboard attaches matches up. If you get a matching one, then search around for tube swap instructions. Heck, the instructions for the 8-liners TV to arcade chassis pretty much has all the information you need. Go to the part about measuring the resistance or whatever, measure it on your arcade monitor, and then on the possible donor tube, if you get a match then you can swap.

I had the same idea for tsman... but wondered how he could know if his arcade chasis works in the first place... *shrug*

It could be worth a try in his case, if he's up to the challenge (be careful man!)

rampy

[tmasman]

hehe...
This thought had already been crossing through my mind...

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell if a chassis is still good (without a monitor attached)

I'll start tinkering this weekend with it. I don't want to go & get myself killed in the middle of the week. (Don't worry, I'll be buying some heavy duty rubber gloves & find out how to discharge the things before I go reaching blindly behind the tube.)

I've been keepin all that stuff in mind. I've had my share of shocks from outlets & wires (installng fans, lights, outlets, etc), but I've also felt the shock from some of those 100K Volt stun guns. I don't feel the need to play with more voltage than I can count to in a minute.

But believe me, I'll be checking all this stuff out soon. I'm psyched about possibly having a real arcade monitor. (even if it is a frankenscreen).

I'll post when I know more or have question/pics.

[tmasman]

I think I'm gonna check the marking on the tubes & plugs... If they aren't a match (or close enough for me to tinker with), then I'm just gonna drop this idea. (Maybe get that 8-Liner chassis or something though)...

Thanks for all the info & ideas guys, I'll let you know what I end up doing.

[AlanS17]

tmasman, if you kill yourself can I have your parts? My brother can come pick them up?

WOT (way off topic):
tmasman, did you see how much those empty new video poker cabs went for???

[tmasman]

tmasman, if you kill yourself can I have your parts? My brother can come pick them up?

WOT (way off topic):
tmasman, did you see how much those empty new video poker cabs went for???

Sure... I'll leave instructions in my will...

And for the WOT q....
50-75ish...

[Brogner]

Brogner: Fried the TV and vid card

OOOPPS.. I'm willing to bet either: a) you didn't have the TV on an isolation transformer, meaning the whole TV was "hot".. Anything connected to anything else that is properly grounded (e.g. your computer) will FRY both items instantly as there is a 120 volt AC potential between the two.

A is correct.  It was a dumb experiment to try in the first place.  What happened was a ground wire  accidently touched one of the the 120 volt wires.  I am really amazed I didnt blow the computer up sending that much power through the agp port

[SirPeale]

A is correct.  It was a dumb experiment to try in the first place.  What happened was a ground wire  accidently touched one of the the 120 volt wires.  I am really amazed I didnt blow the computer up sending that much power through the agp port

Quite the contrary!  I'd love to see this actually work.  You should try again - albiet this time with an iso transformer.

[tmasman]

Well...
It looks likeI'm not going to be putting the WG chassis on any of my TV tubes any time soon....  The WG Tube has 8 pins on the connection & the TV tubes all have 10... D'OH!!!

Oh well... It was a nice thought...  I think I'll just wait for the next auction & pick up a cab w/ a working monitor in it.  I can get that cheaper than messing with the 8-Liner chassis or the converter (which would just degrade the image quality anyhow)...

Thanks for all the help & ideas.  If I get brave with one of them in the future I'll report my findings here...

[GamingGreg]

This guy here sells new arcade chassis that can be used with TV monitors (25" tubes and higher have 10 pins instead of . So that's another option that is open.

Also does anyone know if that RGB to NTSC converter would work in conjuction with a light gun (such as ActLabs gun)?  However, I don't know if I like the option converting to NTSC and then back.  Seem like there would be some picture quality lost in the process.