Why do all game sites keep gushing over Kinect's voice commands?

[VanillaGorilla]

Get a grip ladies! Last I checked no one was holding a gun to your head and telling you to buy the kinect. Like most other consumer affairs, the market will decide, not the tech. Randy is right. MS will sell a boatload, its the prevailing wind that will guide them thru the next 4 years. And the 'its incompatible with manhattan' comment is probably the snobbiest, and most elitist comment I've heard in this thread. The reality is that Manhattan is incompatible with the rest of the country in most respects, so who cares. The midwest will determine the fate of this product. This product was designed with McMansions in mind.... not the NYC hipster crowd. Go to a bar and play some ping pong or something for crissakes....

[BurgerKingDiamond]

whether it sells or not it is LAME

[versapak]

whether it sells or not it is LAME

Blind ignorant statements like that are LAME.

[Dazz]

I picked up Kinect last weekend for my kids just as soon as the new dashboard was JTAG compliant.  Honestly, Kinect isn't that bad.  I was surprised at how accurate the camera is even if you toss other bodies and animals at it.  Not to mention it works when the lighting isn't perfect unlike the 360 Live! camera or even the PS3 Eye.  The video quality of the camera is very good and the build quality of the product is pretty damn high.

The voice commands are actually pretty nice feature.  I wish they had been able to incorporate the voice commands throughout the whole dashboard and not just the Kinect dashboard section.  I'd love to be able to walk into the room and say "Xbox On" and when done "Xbox Off".  I'm hoping that voice features might be added into Freestyledash eventually.

As far as the games go, right now all the games are a bit gimicky just like they were on the Nintendo DS, Wii and PS3 Move when first launched.  I haven't had a chance to play them all yet, but Dance Central, Kinect Adventures and Kinectimals seem to be the kids favorites so far.  I have all of the other games as well, but haven't had a chance to check them out just yet.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

It's not a blind statement, I've seen it, and I've seen people play it. It's a gimmick.

[shmokes]

And the 'its incompatible with manhattan' comment is probably the snobbiest, and most elitist comment I've heard in this thread.

Yeah . . . only an elitist snob would suggest that apartments in Manhattan tend to be too small to work with a Kinect.    

Also, I can't decide which part of your argument to favor . . . the first breath, when you said to stop making predictions and let the market decide, or your next where you predicted that it would be a giant success.  Get a grip, indeed.

Btw, I think that your outright dismissal of Manhattan might be in contention for the title of snobbiest, most elitist comment in this thread.  Or is a superiority complex only elitism when the other guys do it?

[shmokes]

Well, they've sold a million of them already and if it's anything like the gimmicky ipad I'm sure I'll get stuck buying one sooner rather than later.

So . . . you're saying . . . you will most likely buy it if it sucks?  I think that's what you're saying.

[shmokes]

The midwest will determine the fate of this product.

Oh yeah . . . uh . . . like . . . why?  Why in god's name would the fate of this product rest on the midwest and not . . . Texas?  Not that I think Texas is the key to Kinect's success, but I suspect it makes as much sense as Indiana being the key.  Why won't California determine the fate of Kinect?  Why not New York or Florida?  Oh . . . right . . . you don't live in any of those places.  You live in Chicago.  Maybe we have yet another contender for snobbiest, most elitist comments in this thread, lol.

[Hoopz]

He's probably alluding to the whole "if it plays in Peoria" thing which is basically the idea that if you get a bunch of dull and listless people (midwesterners) to buy into something, everyone's gonna like it.

Blind ignorant statements like that are LAME.

+1 to versapak

[VanillaGorilla]

He's probably alluding to the whole "if it plays in Peoria" thing which is basically the idea that if you get a bunch of dull and listless people (midwesterners) to buy into something, everyone's gonna like it.

More or less spot on. I wasn't suggesting that midwesterners are dull and listless, more that they are averse to change and suspicious of new things/ideas. But the 'Peoria' thing is accurate. If it'll play there, it'll play anywhere. And yeah, I am prejudiced against people who think that they are the center of the universe, when they really only represent a very thin edge. And I happen to be in TX today, as a matter of fact. Nice people. Big houses. So unlike NYC.... But I digress. I love you.

[Dartful Dodger]

So after skimming through 3 pages I think the idea of this thread is that Kinect's will fail because it's not real enough.  It reminds me of that other gaming gimmick where you pressed a button to jump and tilted a joystick to move.

This must have been how your dads (or grand dads) sounded when pinball tables were being replaced with arcade cabinets.


Complaining about how fake these gaming peripherals feel, is idiotic.


You want a more realistic gaming experience, go to your local park with your real life friends.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

So after skimming through 3 pages I think the idea of this thread is that Kinect's will fail because it's not real enough.  It reminds me of that other gaming gimmick where you pressed a button to jump and tilted a joystick to move.

not real enough? If anything it's trying to be to real. Why jump around and pretend to hit virtual volleyballs? At that point why don't you go out and play real volleyball?

I see it as further dumbing down video games. Because you will never be able to get the precision needed to play a game of skill using motion controls (at least MOVE and Wii have buttons)... If this is the future of video games, it's gonna suck.

The tech is impressive, but I'm surprised that it's getting support from people on this forum who are into arcade games, which generally require way more skill to play than the majority of current gen games. The one positive thing I can see is the potential for hilarious videos of people getting knocked out while playing

[SNAAKE]

is there a decent ping pong game for kinect??

sometime that WORKS and not retarded like the games on wii

[versapak]

is there a decent ping pong game for kinect??

sometime that WORKS and not retarded like the games on wii

If you want ping pong, then you want move. It is exceptional in Sports Champions.

I don't know if Kinect has one one, but there is no way it will work anywhere near as good as the one on move if it does.

[VanillaGorilla]

The one positive thing I can see is the potential for hilarious videos of people getting knocked out while playing

See, there you go. Just when things were getting all divisive, you go and say something we can all agree on!!  <> May your electric wheelchair never run out of batteries

[shmokes]

So after skimming through 3 pages I think the idea of this thread is that Kinect's will fail because it's not real enough. 

No . . . skimming clearly did not do the trick.  Nobody says it won't be real enough.  I don't think anyone has even suggested that.  We're (the naysayers) saying it won't be fun enough (for a variety of reasons).

[RandyT]

If you want ping pong, then you want move. It is exceptional in Sports Champions.

I don't know if Kinect has one one, but there is no way it will work anywhere near as good as the one on move if it does.

Strangely, table tennis is one of my favorites from Kinect Sports    Definitely better now that I upped the skill of the computer opponent.

It is good on the Move as well, but the Move doesn't see 3D space in the same way that the Kinect version does.  The swing on the Move seems more interpolated in that sense.

[shmokes]

It's really not about whether realism is a good or bad thing.  It's about whether it's fun.  The shallowness of the games matters because most shallow games aren't very fun in the long run, even if they were quite fun to begin with.  But it's not realism.  I think everyone agrees that the Holodeck would be amazing--the pinnacle of videogames.  But pantomiming actions while simultaneously having no way to gracefully move your avatar from point A to point B is a poor substitute for the Holodeck.  Technology-wise I can see how Kinect is a step in the direction of the Holodeck, but experience-wise . . . it's just to limited.

[RandyT]

It's really not about whether realism is a good or bad thing.  It's about whether it's fun.  The shallowness of the games matters because most shallow games aren't very fun in the long run, even if they were quite fun to begin with.  But it's not realism.  I think everyone agrees that the Holodeck would be amazing--the pinnacle of videogames.  But pantomiming actions while simultaneously having no way to gracefully move your avatar from point A to point B is a poor substitute for the Holodeck.  Technology-wise I can see how Kinect is a step in the direction of the Holodeck, but experience-wise . . . it's just to limited.

....because everyone knows that the moment you turn on the Kinect, every 360 wireless controller in your house turns into a fishbowl.  And because of this strange anomaly, there isn't, and never will be, any kind of controller to augment the experience where such games might require one.

[shmokes]

For the most part, actually, yeah.  The 360 controller is not designed to be used one-handed, or standing up.  It's not ergonomic.  And sitting down dramatically limits the what the Kinect can do.  No need to pee your pants over it.

[RandyT]

For the most part, actually, yeah.  The 360 controller is not designed to be used one-handed, or standing up.  It's not ergonomic.

I'm starting to think you've never actually held one.  I can, pretty easily in fact, access the analog thumbstick, the D-Pad, the "back" button, the Left Trigger (and it's switch) and the Left Shoulder button while holding the controller only in my left hand....while standing on one foot.  

[shmokes]

And I'm starting to think you literally cannot separate what can be done with what will be done.  Nobody is going to develop a game in which you are meant to hold the controller with one hand while standing up and moving around.  It's heavy.  It's not comfortable.  What you are able to do for a few seconds so you can post your results to an arcade message board is not something that people want to do for an extended period of time while playing a videogame.  It's just not the way the Kinect will be used.  So basing any discussion about its potential for such use is worthless.  It's not going to happen.  It's clumsy and awkward.  It is designed to be held by two hands.

[RandyT]

And I'm starting to think you literally cannot separate what can be done with what will be done.  Nobody is going to develop a game in which you are meant to hold the controller with one hand while standing up and moving around.  It's heavy.  It's not comfortable.  What you are able to do for a few seconds so you can post your results to an arcade message board is not something that people want to do for an extended period of time while playing a videogame.  It's just not the way the Kinect will be used.  So basing any discussion about its potential for such use is worthless.  It's not going to happen.  It's clumsy and awkward.  It is designed to be held by two hands.

I'll admit, I'm a big guy, so it probably feels different to me than it would you.  But I could definitely use it just as I stated, with little to no difficulty.  It's only a little more awkward than the "nunchuck" controller, but it is heavier.

BTW,  Kinect...has...been...out...for...two...weeks.

Try re-reading my post about product differentiation likely being used as a marketing tool.  If MS released a specialized controller now, it would be seen as a "me too" product, which would sell it's true capability short.  It would also be seen as more expensive, because it would have been.  By doing a staged release, and introducing consumers to it's unique capabilities, with games which use those capabilities exclusively, it differentiates the product immensely, and softens the eventual blow of a specialized controller purchase needed to do the things you think it never will.

But you're probably right...they probably just invested a brazillionty dollars in a new product like this with absolutely no thought or plan given to the obviousness of your concerns.  

[shmokes]

Like I said, I think they're just looking to Xbox 3.  They're getting their engineers up to speed, and positioning themselves in the market.  MS thinks long-term.  I doubt they have the time or inclination to try in make Kinect a success while also attempting to convince consumers to buy yet another peripheral, all within the relatively short time that the 360 will be relevant in the market.

[RandyT]

Like I said, I think they're just looking to Xbox 3.  They're getting their engineers up to speed, and positioning themselves in the market.  MS thinks long-term.  I doubt they have the time or inclination to try in make Kinect a success while also attempting to convince consumers to buy yet another peripheral, all within the relatively short time that the 360 will be relevant in the market.

You haven't been paying attention, so this is becoming cyclical  I.e. you favor your own version of reality over both the market situation and what Microsoft has publicly stated.  Not much further that can be discussed here.

[shmokes]

Oh . . . I'm definitely cynical.  But come on . . . what do you think, Microsoft is going to publicly say, "Look, everyone, we don't seriously think this product could be a success.  You probably should not buy it and just wait for version 2 instead.  Oh, and while you're thinking of what to buy your kids this holiday season, please also keep in mind that we are in the tail-end of our product cycle, so in a couple years we will shift 95% of our product support to Xbox 360's successor."  What Microsoft has publicly stated means very little.  What Microsoft says publicly . . . everything Microsoft says publicly . . . is marketing.

As for the market situation, I think I've been pretty realistic about that.  I'm not favoring my own version of reality over the market situation.  I'm favoring my market predictions over your market predictions.  And my predictions, whether they turn out to be right or wrong, are pretty sound.  As Nintendo proved with the Gamecube and N64, even the most successful videogame developer/publisher in history can't win without strong third party support.  The Kinect can't succeed without strong third party support.  Moreover, add-on peripherals have historically had dismal support from third parties.  Common-sensically a publisher is going to be comparatively disinclined to finance a major blockbuster game for the 360 if it is only compatible with a small percentage of the Xbox 360s in the wild.  This cuts against support.  The device costs an extra $150 on top of the cost of a 360, which is a substantial barrier to entry.  That hurts adoption rate.  That cuts against publisher support.  Many people cannot buy it who otherwise would because their living rooms are incompatible.  Hurts adoption.  Hurts developer support.

MS may be able to overcome all this stuff, but I have been paying attention.  My "version of reality" is pretty well reasoned, even if I turn out to be wrong.  And I probably won't.

[RandyT]

My "version of reality" is pretty well reasoned, even if I turn out to be wrong.

If you do it won't have been.  Can't have both.

It already has a "killer app" at release time, and it's from a 3rd party publisher.  One with a background of very popular games behind it, which also, BTW, require you to buy expensive add-ons to play them.  And, it's selling like hot-cakes based on reports from my nephew who works at Best Buy, as well as the empty displays I have been seeing.

Your "market" predictions smell of a vacuum. 

[shmokes]

If you do it won't have been.  Can't have both.

Of course I can.  We're dealing with probabilities.  If you buy a lottery ticket and I tell you that you will probably not win the lottery, my prediction was really really solid and well reasoned even if it turns out that you go on to win the lottery with that ticket.  Sometimes unlikely things happen.  Usually not, though.  That's what makes them unlikely.

[versapak]

MS definitely expects Kinect to be a success. They are spending a friggin half a billion dollars on advertising this launch.

Time will tell how well it does, but they are certainly planning on giving its best chances at succeeding.

[RandyT]

Of course I can.  We're dealing with probabilities.  If you buy a lottery ticket and I tell you that you will probably not win the lottery, my prediction was really really solid and well reasoned even if it turns out that you go on to win the lottery with that ticket.  Sometimes unlikely things happen.  Usually not, though.  That's what makes them unlikely.

Here's something that's even more unlikely;  that you are better positioned than the leagues of professional folks at Microsoft to determine probabilities associated with the gaming industry and marketing decisions relating thereto.

[shmokes]

MS has every intention of winning.  Kinnect is just not gonna be big this generation.  I really don't think I know more than the MS people.  I think I agree with them. 

[severdhed]

my wife bought me kinect sports the other day, and we spent about 2 hours playing it tonight after the kids went to bed...it was alot of fun.  i havent got to play ever mode on it yet, but here is what i see so far:

most of the events are alot of fun and the motion tracking works much better than i ever anticipated.  so far, soccer is the only event that i didn't really care for.  i had trouble with it not accurately tracking the direction of my kicks several times, and the game itself is just not that much fun. (however the target kicking soccer minigame is a ton of fun)

the track and field events are pretty fun, and exhausting...especially the hurdles. my wife and I enjoyed bowling and volleyball the best.  i went through and played the main game mode the other day to try the events, tonight we spent a good bit of time trying out the minigames, most of which were alot of fun.  it is alot like playing the wii, but just way cooler. 

as for space issues, i don't really have any.  in fact it is frequently telling me to move closer...apparently i just naturally want to stand back too far.  I can't imagine this technology ever replacing a gamepad, and i dont think that is the intention.  I certainly dont want to give up a controller for the majority of my games, however this makes casual/party gaming alot of fun.  i can see this being a big hit at holliday parties this year.  the only real downside i see to it is that you need to have the other people move out of the sensor area when you are playing, which could be a little awkward during a party.  overall, i am very impressed with the way this works, and i am very happy to have one.   it isn't going to replace all of my other gaming setups, but it is another cool thing to add to my collection. 

for any of you who are bashing this thing, go play it.  I was very skeptical at first, but after i played it....i am nothing but impressed.  best of all, it is a way for my wife and I to spend some time together doing something different.  usually if i am playing games, she is in the other room watching some stupid crap on tv, but with kinect (just like the wii) she asks me if I want to play, instead of me twisting her arm to do so.  which is cool

[AtomSmasher]

The skill involved in playing this Kinect game is amazing:

[RandyT]

The skill involved in playing this Kinect game is amazing:

He made a part 2 to this video.  It stopped doing this as soon as he stood up.  Nobody is quite sure why, unless it is seeing him as a small child while he is sitting, and giving him assistance.  I predict an update will be forthcoming for this title...quickly.

It also looks like MS has sold 1 million units in the first 10 days.  That's already enough to pique the interest of third party developers, but they are predicting 5x that many before the end of the year.  I kind of doubt that, but it will be interesting to see.

The "hackers" are also doing some pretty cool stuff with the hardware.  Even seems to be some PC drivers out there already for those who want to play.  I'm waiting for someone to make Theremin-style instrument software.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

takes the term "computer assistance" to a whole new level.

[Malenko]

its not like he got first place.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

it's not like the car just rode the walls the whole time though. You can see it actually steering itself.

[RandyT]

it's not like the car just rode the walls the whole time though. You can see it actually steering itself.

As I wrote above, it stopped doing this when he stood up. 

It's pretty pathetic to see the fanboys jumping on this thing, as though it's some kind of proof that the Kinect hardware has a problem, when it's clearly something that is built into the scheme of that particular game for reasons only the developers seem to know at the moment.

But one thing wouldn't surprise me, and that is that these release games want you to be able to do well.  Controllerless video gaming is new, and the very last thing MS wants to happen is that the player gets frustrated before they get a chance to get good at playing games in this manner.  It reminds me of the difference between Wii Bowling, which people love, and the AMF title that everyone hates.  The Wii pack-in bowling is lacking of any real control nuances, but allows novices to do well.  I don't like it nearly as much as the AMF title, which feels much more like actual bowling, and when you suck at it, it allows you to fail.  I think the game has been intentionally engineered to prevent utter failure, even if you are in a wheelchair, are a little kid, or have limited mobility.  It could very well be that the game made a determination that because he was sitting, and didn't frigging move at all, that he was handicapped.

And if you watch the second video where he speaks, you'd see that the game was correct in the assumption. 

[BurgerKingDiamond]

it's not like the car just rode the walls the whole time though. You can see it actually steering itself.

As I wrote above, it stopped doing this when he stood up. 

It's pretty pathetic to see the fanboys jumping on this thing, as though it's some kind of proof that the Kinect hardware has a problem, when it's clearly something that is built into the scheme of that particular game for reasons only the developers seem to know at the moment.

But one thing wouldn't surprise me, and that is that these release games want you to be able to do well.  Controllerless video gaming is new, and the very last thing MS wants to happen is that the player gets frustrated before they get a chance to get good at playing games in this manner.  It reminds me of the difference between Wii Bowling, which people love, and the AMF title that everyone hates.  The Wii pack-in bowling is lacking of any real control nuances, but allows novices to do well.  I don't like it nearly as much as the AMF title, which feels much more like actual bowling, and when you suck at it, it allows you to fail.  I think the game has been intentionally engineered to prevent utter failure, even if you are in a wheelchair, are a little kid, or have limited mobility.  It could very well be that the game made a determination that because he was sitting, and didn't frigging move at all, that he was handicapped.

And if you watch the second video where he speaks, you'd see that the game was correct in the assumption. 

I was talking about "computer assistance", and the following quote:

You can pretty much beat the Burn Out games doing the same thing, except you have to hold down a 'gas' button.

I would assume that in Burnout for example the car would just bounce off walls when holding the gas button, not actually steer itself. As for computer assistance there is nothing more annoying than hearing that your win wasn't legit in Mario Kart or NBA JAM because the computer helps out the loser (even though it it true).

[AtomSmasher]

it's not like the car just rode the walls the whole time though. You can see it actually steering itself.

As I wrote above, it stopped doing this when he stood up. 

It's pretty pathetic to see the fanboys jumping on this thing, as though it's some kind of proof that the Kinect hardware has a problem, when it's clearly something that is built into the scheme of that particular game for reasons only the developers seem to know at the moment.

Obviously its the game that auto-piloting the car, not the hardware.  I don't even know how that could possibly be caused by the hardware (it somehow knows the correct movements to win the game?).  I posted the video simply because I thought it was hilarious, not as some kind of statement about the hardware.