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How do you know your JAMMA PCB is legal?
CheffoJeffo:
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 07:03:59 pm ---Are those DVDs available in retail stores and can you get an invoice for it?
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Bought one today in a retail store and got a receipt for it.
:blah:
M.Lanza:
I Think this might be related.
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=110413
SavannahLion:
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 09:16:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: SavannahLion on September 11, 2010, 08:35:01 pm ---I'll come out and say it since no one else seems to. Driver-Man, you are immensely stupid.
You are drawing conclusions about the legality of a particular item based on the actions/laws in completely unrelated areas. Worse, you have assumptions about people at customs, the actions of the seller and a set of uninformed notions about tax and import laws. If you had bothered to read the links I gave you, the answer is in Section 1201.
I have cited several sources, more than once, showing the folly of your flawed logic and reasoning. Where are your cited sources that support your argument?
At this point I'm inclined to believe that you're simply trolling. Obviously misleading statements such as your Coca-Cola comment, your refusal to read any of the citations given, as well as your refusal to actually give any citations supporting your view point would lead me to no other conclusion.
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Why insults, what is wrong with you?
You are waving hands, the answer is not in section 1201.
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You're full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. How about citing a source for a change? Or better yet, explaining why section 1201 is not the answer as you put it?
--- Quote ---I have no idea how to prove either opinion
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Oh that's right, you're incapable of using Google. :laugh2:
--- Quote --- , and I do not mind to stand corrected, there is nothing stupid about being wrong, but being an ass, that's just not cool... so, go away if you are happy with your current opinion, you are the one who is trolling. Although, I like your temper, I welcome you to stay so I can prove you wrong and make you blush like a little girl.
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Hey, when you create the forum, then you can "invite me to stay." Otherwise, it looks like I'm the one proving you wrong, doing a pretty decent job of it as well. Oh, and double check that avatar.
Driver-Man:
--- Quote ---Show me the precedent or sh....
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If it was not "illegal" than there would not be any, no one would even be pressing any charges in such cases, so that's something you might try to show me.
Would you believe me that your PC, your Macintosh, your Windows, or Linux even, your graphic card probably best example... there are hundreds of violated copyrights, in both hardware and software. And regardless of whether ATI might tomorrow sue Nvidia for billion dollars and win over copyright infringement, you as a consumer will not be held liable and will still be able to sell offending piece of hardware, without anyone giving ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- what went between Nvidia and ATI in the meantime, and no matter how many copyrights were violated there the item itself would not be dimmed illegal to buy, poses or re-sell. No?
--- Quote ---How about citing a source for a change? Or better yet, explaining why section 1201 is not the answer as you put it?
--- End quote ---
I am not trying to dispute those laws, only finding a hole where they do not apply in given circumstances. -- When the package with my PCB arrived, it contained notice from the customs office. It said they opened the box and inspected the item, and they obviously found it to be perfectly legal since they forwarded all that to me. Should I call them back and say how they were immensely stupid? Does it not strike you as strange that would be the only item in the world that is illegal, yet taxed and available in stores?
Haze:
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 08:44:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze ---It's still an illegal product, It's illegal to resell or operate. Ignorance is no defence. Being taxed by the government has nothing to do with it, how were they meant to know the exact legal status of the item, that's your responsibility, just as it is when buying any other product.
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At least we are down to last question/argument, thank you everyone!
Ok, again we know all the opinions, so I will not repeat any more of mine, the question now is how do we settle this? Shall we ask someone? Maybe have a look in some dictionary, Wikipedia? What legislation could possibly hold the definite answer to this question. How do we prove this either way?
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It's common sense,which you appear to be lacking. Selling an illegal product is illegal. A product which infringes on copyrights IS ILLEGAL. There exists no mechanism whereby an illegal product magically becomes legal because somebody sold it to you.
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 08:44:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze ---If I sell and invoice you for a 'luxury powdered substance' and pay the government what they're due do think think the cops are going to be any more lenient on you when they find you reselling it on the street corner?
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That is not it. You are counterfeiting invoice there too. There is a difference between infringing copyright and being illegal. There is a list which probably can be found at the customs office web site, the list of every single item category, from toothpick to airplane, including arcade PCBs, cabinets and arcade parts, together with liquor, tobacco, heroin... it defines legality, tax rate, fines, penalties, and such... but, infringing copyright, no one can be expected to know about it. -- And, I'm not making any justification or moral whatever, just figuring out the facts... I thought we are all on the same side here, I still have no idea why some people seem to not like what I say.
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There is no difference. Infringing on copyrights is illegal. I'm only counterfeiting an invoice in that I'm not supplying the full details, just as your invoice for an illegal PCB isn't really supplying full details and above board.
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 08:44:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze ---
--- Quote ---'Should be free' is your opinion, but unless the companies release them for free, or the copyrights expire, they can't be considered free. If you want to do something about that you'll have to somehow get all copyrights shortened, or conditionally made to expire once a product has 'no commercial value'. Until that happens (which it won't) it's still a legal minefield. Most of the boards you're talking about are running unlicensed copies of MAME anyway, so it would still be illegal even then. Note, these things also run Pacman / Ms Pacman / Galaga and so are in DIRECT competition with the new rereleases Namco are pushing out, that would be your biggest threat.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/24691/InDepth_Exploring_Ultracades_Alleged_Counterfeit_Arcade_Game_Racket.php
is still the latest update on Ultracade / Foley afaik.
I believe there was a previous case where they were forced to stop using unlicensed Namco property too, it's been mentioned a few times.
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So, Ultracade bribed government with $100,000 and went back to continue as usual. No actual copyright owner pressed charges? So, who pressed charges - gamasutra? What in the world were they trying to do? Game companies and actual copyright holders never complained to authorities about Ultracade, it was all gamasutra playing some sort of "arcade police", but at the end game companies stopped to respond to gamasutra, they seem to become bothered of gamasutra pulling public statements from them, as if companies were not really sure to actually have proper copyrights, or were utterly uninterested in the case, none of which makes sense, but that's what happened, right?
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Uh, did you read the article? Ultracade ended up withdrawing a whole range of their games, Foley ended up in court? It's not Gamasutra vs. Ultracade / Foley, they were just presenting the facts and doing some research of their own. I think the fact that it came down to that tells you that something wrong was being done by somebody?
You seem determined to prove here that you can legally sell / operate cabinets with xx-in-1 multi-game boards. You can't. One call to Namco's legal department, pointing them at your website / auction, and showing that said multi-game contained an illegal copy of Pacman, MsPacman and Galaga, which they themselves are trying to sell to arcades as part of their 20th / 25th Anniversary packs and you would be hearing from their lawyers. I'd love to hear your defence against them. "Sorry, I don't care if you own the rights to those games, and I know this is an unauthorized PCB imported from HK, but it's ok, I can sell it because I paid for it and the government took a cut, here is my invoice" Do you think the courts, or Namco would seriously care for your argument? Do Namco care that the government took money from the sale of an illegal copy of their game? Your defence would be laughed out of court.
(and for that matter, none of this grants you the right to use the code that *I* wrote for MAME either, there is an explicit no-commercial use clause, and again, through your mythical process of an illegal product becoming legal, I am not being compensated in any way either, I'm not even a US citizen, so quite how your government taking a cut is meant to make things better for me I don't know)
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